Tech Tree Discussion

[Sarah Starlight]

Performing Arts (renassiance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performing_arts

Performing arts are art forms in which artists use their body or voice to convey artistic expression—as opposed to plastic arts, in which artists use clay, metal, paint, and other materials to create physical art objects. The first recorded use of the term performing arts was in 1711.

Prose
should come after poetry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose

Prose is the most typical form of language, applying ordinary grammatical structure and natural flow of speech rather than rhythmic structure (as in traditional poetry). While there are critical debates on the construction of prose, its simplicity and loosely defined structure has led to its adoption for the majority of spoken dialogue, factual discourse as well as topical and fictional writing. It is commonly used, for example, in literature, newspapers, magazines, encyclopedias, broadcasting, film, history, philosophy, law and many other forms of communication.

Magazine (modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazines

Magazines, periodicals, glossies or serials are publications that are printed with ink on paper, generally published on a regular schedule and contain a variety of content. They are generally financed by advertising, by a purchase price, by pre-paid magazine subscriptions, or all three.[1] At its root the word magazine refers to a collection or storage location. In the case of written publication it is a collection of written articles.

Consumerism (industrial-early modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism

Consumerism is a social and economic order that encourages the purchase of goods and services in ever-greater amounts. The term is often associated with criticisms of consumption starting with Thorstein Veblen. Veblen's subject of examination, the newly emergent middle class arising at the turn of the twentieth century, comes to full fruition by the end of the twentieth century through the process of globalization.[1]

Franchises(modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchising

Franchising is the practice of using another firm's successful business model. The word 'franchise' is of Anglo-French derivation - from franc - meaning free, and is used both as a noun and as a (transitive) verb.[1] For the franchisor, the franchise is an alternative to building 'chain stores' to distribute goods that avoids the investments and liability of a chain. The franchisor's success depends on the success of the franchisees. The franchisee is said to have a greater incentive than a direct employee because he or she has a direct stake in the business.

I have about 90 more..but ill take it slow

 

[Vokarya]

i think these techs need to be added:

Colonialism (renissance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism

Isn't this the Imperialism tech? The name might be a bit off, but I think this covers the same ground. I think the "Age of Imperialism" comes later, but the concept is the same. Imperialism does not have a lot of content at this point (two Embassy Wonders and that is all), so if you can think of something that could go here, feel free.

Demigod (ancient)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demigod
should be a connector between polytheism and monothesim

I don't know about this one. Why would it connect to Monotheism? Can you explain a little more?

Omen / Oracles (Ancient)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omen

I think what you want here is already in as the Divination tech. We put the Oracle here and I also added an Augur building.

Synthesizer (modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer

I could see an Electronic Music technology. There aren't a lot of art technologies in the Modern Era. We moved Rock 'n' Roll over to Electronics. It could fit here.

Magic Tricks (renasiance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(illusion)

Opera (renassiance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera

Circus (industrial)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus

Puppetry (ancient)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppetry

I think these are better fitted to single buildings rather than entire techs. We have the Carnival (Circus) and the Opera House already in the game (Carnival at Trade, Opera House at Realism). Opera House could be moved backwards on the tech tree now, because it does date to the late Renaissance and Realism is now in the Industrial Era. Perhaps Free Artistry would work?

 

[Sarah Starlight]

ill add 6 more..

Vitamins [artficial] (modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamins

Water purification (modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification

Water purification is the process of removing undesirable chemicals, biological contaminants, suspended solids and gases from contaminated water. The goal is to produce water fit for a specific purpose. Most water is purified for human consumption (drinking water) but water purification may also be designed for a variety of other purposes, including meeting the requirements of medical, pharmacological, chemical and industrial applications. In general the methods used include physical processes such as filtration, sedimentation, and distillation, biological processes such as slow sand filters or biologically active carbon, chemical processes such as flocculation and chlorination and the use of electromagnetic radiation such as ultraviolet light.

Sewage treatment (industrial)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewage_treatment

Sewage treatment is the process of removing contaminants from wastewater and household sewage, both runoff (effluents) and domestic. It includes physical, chemical, and biological processes to remove physical, chemical and biological contaminants. Its objective is to produce an environmentally safe fluid waste stream (or treated effluent) and a solid waste (or treated sludge) suitable for disposal or reuse (usually as farm fertilizer). Using advanced technology it is now possible to re-use sewage effluent for drinking water, although Singapore is the only country to implement such technology on a production scale in its production of NEWater.[2]

Ship Canal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_canal

The Panama Canal (Spanish: Canal de Panamá) is an 82-kilometre (51 mi) ship canal in Panama that connects the Atlantic Ocean (via the Caribbean Sea) to the Pacific Ocean. The canal cuts across the Isthmus of Panama and is a key conduit for international maritime trade.

Work on the canal, which began in 1880, was completed in 1914, making it no longer necessary for ships to sail the lengthy Cape Horn route around the southernmost tip of South America and to navigate the dangerous waters of the Strait of Magellan. One of the largest and most difficult engineering projects ever undertaken, the Panama Canal shortcut made it possible for ships to travel between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans in half the time previously required. The shorter, faster, safer route to the U.S. West Coast and to nations in and along the Pacific Ocean allowed those places to become more integrated with the world economy.

Financial Bonds( industrial)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

In finance, a bond is a negotiable certificate that acknowledges the indebtedness of the bond issuer to the holder. It is negotiable because the ownership of the certificate can be transferred in the secondary market.[1] It is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) to use and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals (semi annual, annual, sometimes monthly).[2]

Credit Card (modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_(finance)

Credit is the trust which allows one party to provide resources to another party where that second party does not reimburse the first party immediately (thereby generating a debt), but instead arranges either to repay or return those resources (or other materials of equal value) at a later date. The resources provided may be financial (e.g. granting a loan), or they may consist of goods or services (e.g. consumer credit). Credit encompasses any form of deferred payment.[1] Credit is extended by a creditor, also known as a lender, to a debtor, also known as a borrower.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

Isn't this the Imperialism tech? The name might be a bit off, but I think this covers the same ground. I think the "Age of Imperialism" comes later, but the concept is the same. Imperialism does not have a lot of content at this point (two Embassy Wonders and that is all), so if you can think of something that could go here, feel free.

Well Imperialism and Colonialism are two different things, and should not be combined.

Imperialism, as defined by the Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." Imperialism, as described by that work is primarily a Western undertaking that employs "expansionist, mercantilist policies".[1]

I don't know about this one. Why would it connect to Monotheism? Can you explain a little more?

Well monotheism is the belief in one true 100% god. Demigod is the believe that a mortal is the "chosen one", and is half god, but doesn't have god powers so its 50% monotheism. Their can be multiple half-gods, Hercules and Achilles come to mine.


I could see an Electronic Music technology. There aren't a lot of art technologies in the Modern Era. We moved Rock 'n' Roll over to Electronics. It could fit here.
this needs to be in C2C.


I think these are better fitted to single buildings rather than entire techs. We have the Carnival (Circus) and the Opera House already in the game (Carnival at Trade, Opera House at Realism). Opera House could be moved backwards on the tech tree now, because it does date to the late Renaissance and Realism is now in the Industrial Era. Perhaps Free Artistry would work

Well Opera and Big top circuses happened after free artistry and where both cultural icons of their time.

The Circus should be an industrial tech because Circuses,(ringling bros), were a big part of industrial Americana and some european culture. The tech could be called Exhibitions or expositions perhaps, to include world fairs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_(exhibition)

Magic Tricks (renasiance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(illusion)

now this could be under Free Artistry, but most stage magic happened in late 19th centuary and early 20th centuary thou.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

what eras do you need Techs for, i know about 12 history majors I can ask

I know Demigods are very big in Japanese culture, with japanese leaders known as God Emperors

All i need is the tech tree in document format

 

[Vokarya]

Performing Arts (renassiance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performing_arts

What would be different between this tech and Free Artistry? I don't know if there is that much of a difference.

Prose
should come after poetry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose

Isn't this the same as the Literature tech?

Magazine (modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazines

We have the Press Agency building. I have a hard time seeing enough of a difference between newspapers and magazines to warrant even a new building, much less an entire technology.

Consumerism (industrial-early modern)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism

Franchises(modern)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchising

I like these two. I think there aren't nearly enough economics technologies in the Modern Era. I know Realism Invictus has a Consumerism tech that might be helpful. I think these would work very well with Corporations.

I have about 90 more..but ill take it slow

Please. If I can offer a couple pieces of advice:

1. Don't throw out too many ideas at once. Keep the posts shorter so that we can honestly look at the ideas and debate them. Too many ideas and some very well may get lost in the shuffle.
2. I think it helps if you do some of the ground work. When I propose tech ideas, I like to think about where the tech comes from (what its prerequisites are), where the tech is going (what it should lead to), and some kind of content (a unit, a building, a Wonder...) for the tech.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Colonialism
Mostly already covered with Imperialism.

Demigod
Not sure how this differs from the other religious techs.

Omen / Oracles (Ancient)
Divination tech covers this.

Synthesizer (modern)
I have been meaning to finish the music line of techs. I am putting this on low priority and possibly under a another name.

Magic Tricks, Opera, Circus, Puppetry
I agree with what Vokarya said about these.

Performing Arts (renassiance)
Drama and Free Artisty cover this.

Prose
Too specific. We already went over the limits of language techs when we added things like calligraphy. Poetry and Literature is fine.

Vitamins
This seems to already be under the Pharmacy stuff.

Water purification, Sewage treatment
This is already covered in modern sanitation.

Magazine
I think this is already covered between printing press and mass media.

Consumerism and Franchises
I thought we already had something similar to this. Like Corporations and stuff. I will see what the others think.

Financial Bonds
Hmm.

Ship Canal
We have canal systems and civil engineering. I am not sure if this needs its own tech.

Credit Card
Hmm.

Please slow down for us (Vokarya, ls612 and I) to respond.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

What would be different between this tech and Free Artistry? I don't know if there is that much of a difference.

Well Perfoming Arts first came in 1700s i believe, and Free artistry was earlier.

Isn't this the same as the Literature tech?

Dependson what you mean by literature, because there are differnet writing styles but the two main ones was Verse to Prose,( which was telling stories in realism than mythological lyrics)

We have the Press Agency building. I have a hard time seeing enough of a difference between newspapers and magazines to warrant even a new building, much less an entire technology.

How about the introduction of colored pictures, subscription models, and entertainment and academic stories? Before magazines, the majority of literatures was just newspaper news, magazines changed the periodical landscape by allowing a niche periodical market especially for entertainment articles instead of just the "news". A magazine is not a newspaper, a newspaper tells the news or propaganda , a magazine entertains a reader.

You wouldnt call Scientific American or Motor trend a newspaper right?


This tech can be called Journalism

 

[Hydromancerx]

This tech can be called Journalism

This sounds intresting. What stats and changes would be associated with this? Please use the standard form ...

Name
Req Techs: The techs it needs.
Location: X Y (see the online tech tree)
Cost: How much science it takes to research
Leads To: Techs it would lead to
Notes: Altered buildings/civics/units

 

[Vokarya]

Well Imperialism and Colonialism are two different things, and should not be combined.

I agree with this. I think we should have Colonialism where Imperialism is now, and then a new Imperialism in the Industrial era. I have a Crystal Palace wonder that would fit great with an Industrial-era Imperialism tech, but the effect I want needs a new XML tag and a tweak to existing buildings to work without being incredibly clunky.

I think these are better fitted to single buildings rather than entire techs. We have the Carnival (Circus) and the Opera House already in the game (Carnival at Trade, Opera House at Realism). Opera House could be moved backwards on the tech tree now, because it does date to the late Renaissance and Realism is now in the Industrial Era. Perhaps Free Artistry would work

Well Opera and Big top circuses happened after free artistry and where both cultural icons of their time.

The Circus should be an industrial tech because Circuses,(ringling bros), were a big part of industrial Americana and some european culture. The tech could be called Exhibitions or expositions perhaps, to include world fairs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_(exhibition)

A Circus building or even a Wonder could just be tied to Railroad. For that matter, you can tie a World's Fair to Screw Propeller to represent quick long-distance sea travel.

now this could be under Free Artistry, but most stage magic happened in late 19th centuary and early 20th centuary thou.

I'm not convinced that stage magic is important enough to demand its own technology.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

Colonialism
Mostly already covered with Imperialism.

If you say so.

Demigod
Not sure how this differs from the other religious techs.

Well u can have just monotheism and polythesim, you need Demism as well, not all religous are monotheistic or polytheistic.

Omen / Oracles (Ancient)
Divination tech covers this.

not needed then,

Synthesizer (modern)
I have been meaning to finish the music line of techs. I am putting this on low priority and possibly under a another name.

Well their would be no loudspeakers without analog synthesizers or earphone/VHS. DVDs/.DJS with digital ones.

Magic Tricks, Opera, Circus, Puppetry
I agree with what Vokarya said about these.

most of this became popular after Free Artistry thou, century after, especially in Industrial and Victorian times aka 1800s, free artistry is 1600s with mona lisa.

[

B]Performing Arts (renassiance)[/B]
Drama and Free Artisty cover this.

It actually doesnt, Performing Arts happened after Free Artistry and Drama, in the 1700s, Free Artistry is 1600s.

Prose
Too specific. We already went over the limits of language techs when we added things like calligraphy. Poetry and Literature is fine.

Specific but it had a major chage in the academic and historian world.

Vitamins
This seems to already be under the Pharmacy stuff.
What pharmacy tech?


Water purification, Sewage treatment
This is already covered in modern sanitation.

I agree, delete.

Magazine
I think this is already covered between printing press and mass media.

If u have mass media, no need for magazine.

Consumerism
I thought we already had something similar to this. Like Corporations and stuff.

Consumerism is not corporations.

Financial Bonds
Hmm.
This happened in industrial age.

Ship Canal
We have canal systems and civic engineering. I am not sure if this needs its own tech.

Ship canals happened after civic engineering thou, early 20th century.

Credit Card
Hmm.

This happened in the 1950s i bleleive.

Please slow down for us (Vokarya, ls612 and I) to respond.

okay, you guys are missing alot thou.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

A Circus building or even a Wonder could just be tied to Railroad. For that matter, you can tie a World's Fair to Screw Propeller to represent quick long-distance sea travel.

a RAILROAD and Screw propeller work great.

I'm not convinced that stage magic is important enough to demand its own technology.

Well before Radio and Motion Pictures, stage magic was a cultural icon in America, 1860s-1930s..

Stage Magic--->Motion Pictures---->Radio--->Television

 

[Vokarya]

Consumerism and Franchises
I thought we already had something similar to this. Like Corporations and stuff. I will see what the others think.

Corporation and Stock Brokering are at the very end of the Renaissance. The next purely economics techs are:

• Applied Economics (early Modern era)
• Legalized Gambling (early Modern era)
• Derivatives (middle Modern)
• Globalization (middle Modern)
• Conglomerates (late Modern)

I think Consumerism and Franchises fit well into the early Modern Era.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

Corporation and Stock Brokering are at the very end of the Renaissance. The next purely economics techs are:

• Applied Economics (early Modern era)
• Legalized Gambling (early Modern era)
• Derivatives (middle Modern)
• Globalization (middle Modern)
• Conglomerates (late Modern)

I think Consumerism and Franchises fit well into the early Modern Era.

Thw main "gift" of consumerism was department stores and shopping malls in the 1920s, if you want to start from there. Before consumerism it was mostly mom and pop stores and Sears catalog.


I would put franchises in the 1950s, and put car dealerships, burger shops, and football/nba franchises on there.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

This sounds intresting. What stats and changes would be associated with this? Please use the standard form ...

Name
Req Techs: The techs it needs.
Location: X Y (see the online tech tree)
Cost: How much science it takes to research
Leads To: Techs it would lead to
Notes: Altered buildings/civics/units

okay ill do that..ill have alist

here are two more..

Denim
could be used to represent the Frontier and 1849 California goldrush

Synthetic Fiber
polyester and velco

A polymer is a large molecule (macromolecule) composed of repeating structural units. These sub-units are typically connected by covalent chemical bonds. Although the term polymer is sometimes taken to refer to plastics, it actually encompasses a large class of compounds comprising both natural and synthetic materials with a wide variety of properties.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya & Sarah

Ok so narrowing things down to possible candidates ...

- Consumerism
- Franchises
- Colonialism (In the place of Imperialism and then Imperialism moved)
- Journalism
- Stage Magic
- Circus

... Um ok lets just focus on stats for these at the moment. The others may be added I just want to work on details before we move on.

Where should they fit in the tree? How much, what are the requirements?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Demigod (ancient)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demigod
should be a connector between polytheism and monothesim

I'll chime in on this one. We've been working for sometime now to separate the mono vs poly lines. To prevent religion founding clustering. Besides that Dancing Huskold is The Religion making guru, would need to go thru him. And any religion with 2 or more gods/half gods is poly.

The idea of a Demigod might fit more under the Hero unit but not as a tech imho.

JosEPh

 

[Vokarya]

okay ill do that..ill have alist

here are two more..

Denim
could be used to represent the Frontier and 1849 California goldrush

Synthetic Fiber
polyester and velco

Synthetic Fibers is a good one. I'd prefer to have it specifically focus on nylon and rayon, since those really made a major impact on the world. I think denim is too narrow for a tech, especially since it's hard to define a "frontier" on a world that may not look like Earth.

 

[Sarah Starlight]

when making my list i noticed steam power was in the place, alot of the industrial age is wrong.
steam power and electricity are next to each other!

Steam power came in 1720 andthe Electrictal generator in 1820, so did u guys mean Electricity to be the discovery of electricity but forgot the dynamo battery, electrical power that came in 1880s?

Do u guys mind if I rearrange the industrial era in Excel and post it up, your industrial era could use ALOT of new techs, and tech moves, my minor is in United States History (1700s-1900s).

 

[Vokarya]

Okay, I took a look at Consumerism and I also looked at how it is used in a couple of other mods (since Realism Invictus and World of Legends both have Consumerism) and I think we actually have two new technologies here:

Propaganda (Industrial Era)
Location: X62 Y11
Cost: 6000
Req Techs: Motion Pictures AND Psychology AND (Communism OR Fascism)
Leads to: Consumerism, Television
Buildings: Propaganda Office (moved), Security Bureau (moved)
Civic: Propaganda (moved)

Consumerism (Industrial Era)
Location: X64 Y13
Cost: 6500
Req Techs: Industrialism AND Propaganda
Leads to: Applied Economics, Mass Media
Buildings: Mall (requires just Consumerism), Supermarket (requires Consumerism AND Refrigeration), Bullseye, East-West Traders, Emperor's Clothing, MallWart

Altered Techs
Applied Economics
Req Techs: Computers AND Consumerism AND Representative Democracy

Mass Media
Req Techs: Consumerism AND Pop Art AND Television

Television
Req Techs: Electronics AND Propaganda

Would this work?