Tehran, we have a problem...

Joecoolyo

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Apparently the situation is so grim, even the President wants to escape:

AJE said:
Ahmadinejad wants to be first Iran astronaut

President says he is ready to take the risk of being the first human being sent into space by his country's scientists.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said he is ready to take the risk of becoming the first human being sent into space by Iran, national media reports.

"I'm ready to be the first Iranian to sacrifice myself for our country's scientists," the official IRNA news agency quoted him as saying on the sidelines of an exhibition of space achievements in Tehran on Monday.

Iran said it sent a monkey into space one week ago, describing the launch as a successful step towards Tehran's plan to send an astronaut into space within the next five to six years. The monkey named "Pishgam", which means pioneer in Farsi, reportedly travelled 120km and safely returned to Earth.

The launch added to Western concerns about Iran's space programme because the same rocket technology could potentially be used to deliver a nuclear warhead on a ballistic missile.

In 2010, Iran said it launched an Explorer rocket into space carrying a mouse, a turtle and worms.

Iran's space officials say Iran will launch a bigger rocket carrying a larger animal to obtain greater safety assurances before sending a man into space.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/02/201324154448873605.html

Mayor, president, astronaut, what's next in this man's illustrious career of being everyone?

Taking all bets!
 
There will be nothing added to his career after this. Mossad will change the flight plans so that Ahmadinejad takes the "scenic route" through the sun.
 
I was suprised when I scrolled down to see the link was in fact not theonion.com
 
How noble!
 
Quick. We had better get to the moon before they do. The safety of the entire free world is at stake.

Well, it worked back in the 60s...

Now we just need Reagan to step out of his grave and tell us to revive the Star Wars program to counter their non-existent ICBM program equipped with their mythical nuclear warheads.
 
I'm actually kinda impressed that Iran can pull all this off.
 
I'm actually kinda impressed that Iran can pull all this off.

The technology is the same technology of making an ICBM with a nuke on it. That's what the space race was about too, really, and why Sputnik made so many westerners crap bricks.
 
And exactly the same sort of fear mongering, paranoia, and hyperbole will soon follow.

Eisenhower proved that the Soviet Union wasn't planning world domination by creating secret bases in the middle of nowhere through the U2 overflights and then the satellite program. But did that stop the warmongers from incessantly claiming it was occurring?
 
And exactly the same sort of fear mongering, paranoia, and hyperbole will soon follow.

Eisenhower proved that the Soviet Union wasn't planning world domination by creating secret bases in the middle of nowhere through the U2 overflights and then the satellite program. But did that stop the warmongers from incessantly claiming it was occurring?
How are you defining secret bases in the middle of nowhere? Because they actually did have quite a few of them and the U2 overflights found many of them.

You're also sidestepping the fact that although the overflights were despised (but mostly because the USSR couldn't return the favor) they led directly to the spy satellites which both sides saw as absolutely critical in keeping the peace and thus welcomed to varying extents.

Quick. We had better get to the moon before they do. The safety of the entire free world is at stake.

Well, it worked back in the 60s...

Now we just need Reagan to step out of his grave and tell us to revive the Star Wars program to counter their non-existent ICBM program equipped with their mythical nuclear warheads.

Getting to the moon worked on a ton of different levels both in the short and the very long term. We're still living off the dividends of that whole effort and just because it was rooted in nationalism to the max doesn't discount the very obvious benefits we gained through it. And it wasn't just a technological dividend either, and the benefits were not restricted solely to the US.

As for the Star Wars program, it may not have ever come close to shooting down an ICBM, but there were a lot of merits and positive outcomes that came of that program as well. (Which is a different discussion than a straight-up cost benefit analysis since you seem to imply that it was a total failure on all levels. That's how I'm reading you anyway, correct me if I'm wrong.)

The Iranians do have an ICBM program, they don't try and hide the fact that they have theater- and medium- range ballistic missiles with high explosive warheads and most likely options to deploy chemical or biological warheads for use both offensively or defensively. Granted, the CEP of such weapons are such a joke that any non-nuclear warheads would be wasted on an offensive strike. This means that while you could credibly claim they're solely defensive in nature, you would still be bolstering the case that they are developing nuclear weapons which would make their innacurate missiles much more effective in either a defensive or offensive role.

In any case, you can't claim they don't exist as you seem to be hinting at. The difference between what the Iranians currently have and a full-on ICBM program is simply range, which is a function of their technical capability. There is no easy line you can draw and say it's a mystical non-existent thing when they are clearly in a grey area.

Further, if their sat launchers could carry a decent payload to orbit, they would have ICBM's by default as well. Also, the fact that they are actively developing such capabilities de facto means they are developing ICBM's.

Whether or not they will couple such rockets with nuclear, chemical, biological or high explosive warheads is another matter, but you can't credibly claim they have a 'mythical' non-existant ICBM program.
 
How are you defining secret bases in the middle of nowhere? Because they actually did have quite a few of them and the U2 overflights found many of them.
The point is that the Soviet Union clearly had no vast capability to assure world domination, as the warmongers were falsely claiming at the time. You do realize the reason he called for those overflights was to directly dispute the incessant rantings of the "military industrial complex"?


Link to video.

You're also sidestepping the fact that although the overflights were despised (but mostly because the USSR couldn't return the favor) they led directly to the spy satellites which both sides saw as absolutely critical in keeping the peace and thus welcomed to varying extents.
I'm not "sidestepping" anything of the sort. The satellite programs by both sides was "absolutely critical in keeping the peace". That is exactly my point. It proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Soviets weren't secretly plotting to take over the world. That their actual capabilities were far below our own.

<snip>

Moderator Action: Let's not get on that track. thanks.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Just to reiterate my point on the similarities between ICBM's and peaceful satellite or astronaut launchers, I pose the following question:

All of the rockets in the spoiler were used to send astronauts, cosmonauts or satellites into orbit. Besides this fact, what else did they have in common?

Spoiler :
480px-Launch_of_Friendship_7_-_GPN-2000-000686.jpg

460px-Mercury-Redstone_4_Launch_MSFC-6414824.jpg

i-6c89b6ce3a50f0eda90ecae7b6400704-soyuz-lg.jpg

C0123481-Satellite_launcher_on_pad-SPL.jpg


Spoiler answer :
All of these rockets moonlighted as long range nuclear tipped death missiles, i.e. ICBMs.

Bonus points to the person that can point out which of these rockets was actually an Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM) that worked exactly like Iran's current stockpile of missiles.


Formaldehyde said:
Source please. You do realize the reason he called for those flights was to directly dispute the incessant rantings of the "military industrial complex"?
The best, most obvious example is the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Past that, I'm not going to go hunting for links to prove that U2 overflights found one of the many secret Soviet military bases, missile silos, 'secret cities', etc. There were too many U2 flights and too many secret things to be found for me to even care trying to prove that the one found the other beyond the Cuban secret base.
 
I think we all know that NASA was just a thinly veiled military project all along. There is no surprise there. That many of the initial launch vehicles were hastily converted ICBMs after a number of embarrassing mishaps.

The point that you seem to be missing is that Eisenhower took the risk of overflights to dispute the rantings of the military-industrial complex, as my edited message above makes quite clear. There was no vast fleet of strategic bombers or even many missile silos. The Soviet Union was actually vastly inferior to the US capabilities all along. The so-called Cold War was largely a myth perpetuated to make defense contractors and right wing politicians rich.

Furthermore, the Cuban Missile Crisis was one of the largest blunders ever perpetuated which nearly caused a global thermonuclear war. The Soviets were merely responding in kind to our own Jupiter missile program deployed to Turkey and Italy. The Soviets were more than willing to trade them quid pro quo. There was no real need for all that saber rattling that nearly caused the destruction of the modern world.
 
hobbsyoyo said:
Just to reiterate my point on the similarities between ICBM's and peaceful satellite or astronaut launchers
Should be read: Just to reiterate the fact that I love talking about rockets and I'm going to spam this thread to hell and gone because it's somewhat space related and that's what I do. :lol:

Formaldehyde -
I know about the Jupiter missiles in Turkey. They were a variation of the Redstone rocket that I posted in the 2nd picture above.

The fact that they opened the base in Cuba in what was arguably a justified self-defense measure doesn't change the fact that they did so in secret, opened some bases and they were all found by U2's.

You're also right, during the time of the overflights, there wasn't a lot of missile launchpads. But there was all kinds of other installations and without the overflights, we never would have known that there wasn't a missile gap. The whole missile scare started after all, because Kruschev boasted they were making missiles like sausages.

I'm not telling you you're wrong that our military and it's supporting infrastructure has been massively bloated. That's not what I was disputing at all with my posts.


One thing though: If you are going to call NASA past and present a 'thinly veiled military project', (which may be a fair point) you have to stop referring to Iran's ICBM program as 'mythical' or 'non-existent'.
 
I think we all know that NASA was just a thinly veiled military project all along. There is no surprise there. That many of the initial launch vehicles were hastily converted ICBMs after a number of embarrassing mishaps.
...

The so-called Cold War was largely a myth perpetuated to make defense contractors and right wing politicians rich.

You've got some darn good points there, buddy, but I do think we should recognize the contributions to scientific advancement that came from military spending. Why, without the military we wouldn't have microwave ovens or the internet!

You can probably assume, pal, that we'd eventually get to those collateral benefits even without the military incentive. Still, who knows what form they'd take? Without ARPANET, we might be taking about the Minitel, instead of the internet. Parlez vous francais, chum?

All in all though, it does seem to me like a good idea to be careful about how much we spend on arms and what-not.
 
One thing though: If you are going to call NASA past and present a 'thinly veiled military project', (which may be a fair point) you have to stop referring to Iran's ICBM program as 'mythical' or 'non-existent'.
It certainly is without any sort of nuclear warhead to put on top. But if it strike fear in the hearts of the fear mongers, it can't be all bad. At least they will now have a quasi-legitimate basis to be so paranoid about a country that really is no dire threat at all.

You've got some darn good points there, buddy, but I do think we should recognize the contributions to scientific advancement that came from military spending. Why, without the military we wouldn't have microwave ovens or the internet!
I think that is a stretch. These technologies would have eventually been created, as you even mention in your next paragraph. ARPAnet was even seen by many at the time as being technologically inferior in many regards at the time. Fortunately, most of the inherent shortcomings have eventually been resolved.

All in all though, it does seem to me like a good idea to be careful about how much we spend on arms and what-not.
When a highly decorated WWII general and Republican president claims he was quite worried about the "military-industrial complex" over 50 years ago, there is likely at least some basis to think so. The US government has been largely subsidizing capitalism in this country in the form of defense spending ever since WWII, and much of the rest of the world continues to suffer as a direct result.
 
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