Terror Attack in Egypt

[FredLC]

It's true, Iceblaze, that Al Quaeda pops up... it's agressive nature seens to have no equal currently. Unfortunately, they are not the only ones who are capable of such despicable acts... and sunce Egypt does not comes out as one of their most desired targets, blaming them before clues come up is kind of uncalled for. (not that I am worried with Al Qaeda's "good name", mind you).

Regards .

 

[FredLC]

The only accessable way IMO is the moderate way,which is usually found in SE Asia and Latin America.With an authoritarian regime who don't interfere private property and business,limited publishing and press liberty and have an steady ongoing economy. Oh wait,is China OK as a moderate regime?But I like to bash my homeland more I guess.

Wait a minute there. Are you suggesting that the military dictatorships in South America were a step towards democracy?

State yes or no clearly before I carry on in this line of argument.

Regards .

 

[Winner]

Just to avoid future misunderstanding:

1) I am not against democracy, I am for it. I just know, that democracy in the West was evolving for a long time. You need OK economy, strong middle class and people loving their freedom to keep it.

It many ME countries, democracy is not an option NOW. They need time to improve living conditions of majority of people, they must have the freedom loving middle class first, only then true democracy can evolve.

2) If we have a problem with islamistic terrorism, it would be foolish to not say we must focus on muslims if we really want to fight the terrorism. That doesn't mean we need to discriminate them or so. It does mean we need to find radicals among them and eliminate them. It is obvious we won't find islamic terrorists among the Hindus, Catholics etc. I think every modern man of moslem faith will understand it. They know we don't fight them, but the radicals among them, which are casting a cloud over their community.

 

[stormbind]

Egypt is probably perceived as an Anglo-American ally because it is keen to keep positive relations with Britain.

Egypt is also concerned about it's tourist industry which is made up largely of British.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

AQ might be involved in these Egyptian attacks, or they might not. Egypt has had its own Islamic terrorist groups for decades. But its irrelevant whether they call themselves Al Qaeda or Al Bundy, we're fighting the same enemy.

 

[Hitro]

In our (European) vital interest is to not have islamistic regimes around us, which would support terrorists killing our people. What I don't say is we should support totalitarian Saddam-style dictatorships. I just say that some authoritarian form of government is necessary in these countries for now, because the only alternative is the islamistic regime. Is that clear?

The thing is that these very regimes are the basic reason for the whole islamic movement, including the terrorism. They bombed there yesterday not because they hate Mubarak's freedom but because they hate his oppression of their brand of Islam.
While it might well be so that an Islamist regime would follow if the people could decide that doesn't mean it would have to be Jihadist. It might, but doesn't have to. And currently, with your praised authoritarian regimes in place all over the Arab world, terrorism, anti-Western feelings and antisemitism are clearly on the rise, not on the decline.

It could already be "too late" for a change to the good, but preserving the status quo won't do much good either. And it denies freedom to pretty much everyone within their population, not just the terrorists. And the latter take it their way anyhow...

If Czechs were going to Germany with backpacks filled with semtex and were blowing up in German restaurants, subway stations or buses, you would certainly think differently about this topic. If the only way how to fight those, who support this bastards, was to keep some not-so-democratic regime in Czech republic, you'd be the first to interfere with our affairs. And it would be the right thing.

If I remember correctly we have interfered with your affairs already...

And so have the Soviets in 1968, following precisely your path of thinking.

Furthermore your analogy is highly flawed, these were (probably) Arab people blowing things up in an Arab country. In London it were British citizens blowing things up in Britain. This is not a conflict between nations.

BTW, you are exactly that type of European with his head hidden in the sand the American posters often criticize. The ideals are very nice thing, but the reality is different.

These ideals are the very freedom were are trying to defend. Giving them up is the only way of losing in this sense...

You however seem to be well on that road. The whole old mantra of "freedom is great - unless you don't share my views". Congratulations!

 

[IceBlaZe]

My brother, sister and her boyfriend were supposed to go to the Sinai today, btw.
Of course they cancelled their trip.

 

[Hitro]

My brother, sister and her boyfriend were supposed to go to the Sinai today, btw.
Of course they cancelled their trip.

So it worked. Can't blame them, though. Would have done the same, but then again I would never even consider travelling to Egypt in the first place.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

but then again I would never even consider travelling to Egypt in the first place.

Ditto. The only way Id go is if I was marched on the plane at gunpoint, and kept away from the parachutes and emergency exits while en route.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

...but then again I would never even consider travelling to Egypt in the first place.

Ditto. The only way Id go is if I was marched on the plane at gunpoint, and kept away from the parachutes and emergency exits while en route.

It sounds like neither of you would have gone before the latest bombings. Why? It is such an interesting and historic place. I'd love to go back someday.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Sinai is one of the most beautiful places in the world, especially the corals..
Of course my family didn't plan to go to one of the hotels, they planned to visit a god forsaken beach that no terrorist would ever go near to.
Also, after NY, Madrid, London and many years that Israeli cities have been bombed, I don't think Sinai is so different..
Just to add, that just before the last bombing, the Israeli government initiated a severe warning for Israeli tourists not to go to the Sinai, and of course stupid Israelis, they ignored, and many died. Just before this bombing the Israeli governemnt again initiated a severe warning due to selective intelligence information on the Sinai, many Israelis decided not to go, and only one Israel (so far) got hurt. Still, many ignore. My family almost ignored.
See here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3116868,00.html

 

[IceBlaZe]

So it worked. Can't blame them, though. Would have done the same, but then again I would never even consider travelling to Egypt in the first place.

I don't think their intention is to scare Israeli tourists.
They want to establish an Islamic regime in Egypt, I believe.
It won't work.

 

[Hitro]

It sounds like neither of you would have gone before the latest bombings. Why?

For me because I wouldn't want to visit a dictatorship. Could spend my money elsewhere. There are loads of beautiful places without that negative aspect. In the Middle East the only country I would consider visiting would be Israel.

 

[Hitro]

I don't think their intention is to scare Israeli tourists.
They want to establish an Islamic regime in Egypt, I believe.
It won't work.

That might be their longterm goal. But these bombings target tourists for a reason and that reason is the importance the tourist industry has in those countries. It's where they can hit the regime the hardest. That's why they did in on Bali, on Djerba and in Sharm-el-Sheik.

It is, from a purely tactical and non-ethical perspective, the smartest thing they can do when bombings are concerned. If they blow up a police post the attention in the West will be far lower. Sad but true.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Yes but they targeted a spot much more common with Egyptians than with tourists. Maybe it had something to do with "availability".

 

[Bozo Erectus]

It sounds like neither of you would have gone before the latest bombings. Why?

To me it makes about as much sense as taking a picnic basket to Omaha Beach on D-Day and working on my tan. "Of course Im going to Omaha Beach! If I dont go, then the Nazi's will aready have won!"

 

[Hitro]

Yes but they targeted a spot much more common with Egyptians than with tourists. Maybe it had something to do with "availability".

I guess. And as cynical as it is, this is enough dead Westeners to bring the message across, especially combined with the high number of dead overall.

 

[IceBlaZe]

One beach is taken away by terrorists... The other by water... Where shall I go?

 

[Hitro]

One beach is taken away by terrorists... The other by water... Where shall I go?

Yeah really. Can't even visit London these days. But hey, did I mention that Bremen is quite in the summer?

 

[plarq]

Wait a minute there. Are you suggesting that the military dictatorships in South America were a step towards democracy?

State yes or no clearly before I carry on in this line of argument.

Regards .

No,it's not anywhere near democracy,but since democracy won't work in current situation anyway,why not just wait?