tesbs tweaked spells
- Thread starter tesb
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I am not a big fan of spells that simply merge 2 in 1. Especially Recovering Flurry looks odd since it basically removes Regeneration out of the game. How about letting Battle Preparation merge haste, stoneskin, and enchant Spellstaff and rename embrace of Elements to toughness and let it merge Regeneration, Fireshield and Windwall?
graywarden
King
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any changes you guys make, let me know so i can edit the help/strategy files
@sephi i agree!
In general i merge spells that act in similar fashions or have similar restriction the last point is important and i explain it below:
1)
regeneration only targets living units (the promotion itself can apply to all units, it is the spell that limits it) so if i would merge this with stoneskin and enchant spellstaff either will nonliving units have access to haste or nonliving mages won't be able to get stoneskin and spellstaff.
similar to that regeneration does only effect living units, while fireshield and windwall may affect nonliving units
(i could find a workaround too, if i limit the new spell to be only cast by living units)
2)
i don't know if you going to fix, what i assume still to be bugged, the apearance of obsoleted spells. while you did manage that obsoleted spells no longer show up on autocast, they still show up with their normal version, although greyed out. i would prefer that they would not show up at all (this was my intention, see the op)
(see picture in the attachment)
3)
if i combine spells from more then 2 spheres like windwall (Air 1) fireshield (Fire 1) and regeneration (Body 2) i have problems with the prerequisites since i can only choose two. A workaround would be to rely on the arcane mastery promotions, but that would mean that one would gain access to these spells rather late. (but i do plan on adding spells that rely on arcane mastery promotions)
Problem 3 is minor, i can work around that. If Problem 2 would be resolved then there would not that much of an obstacle merging only two spells, since it still reduces the amount of clutter by 1.
With the new tags for adding more promotions i will also merge more spells that will require higher tiers and merge more then 3 spells.
In general i merge spells that act in similar fashions or have similar restriction the last point is important and i explain it below:
1)
regeneration only targets living units (the promotion itself can apply to all units, it is the spell that limits it) so if i would merge this with stoneskin and enchant spellstaff either will nonliving units have access to haste or nonliving mages won't be able to get stoneskin and spellstaff.
similar to that regeneration does only effect living units, while fireshield and windwall may affect nonliving units
(i could find a workaround too, if i limit the new spell to be only cast by living units)
2)
i don't know if you going to fix, what i assume still to be bugged, the apearance of obsoleted spells. while you did manage that obsoleted spells no longer show up on autocast, they still show up with their normal version, although greyed out. i would prefer that they would not show up at all (this was my intention, see the op)
(see picture in the attachment)
3)
if i combine spells from more then 2 spheres like windwall (Air 1) fireshield (Fire 1) and regeneration (Body 2) i have problems with the prerequisites since i can only choose two. A workaround would be to rely on the arcane mastery promotions, but that would mean that one would gain access to these spells rather late. (but i do plan on adding spells that rely on arcane mastery promotions)
Problem 3 is minor, i can work around that. If Problem 2 would be resolved then there would not that much of an obstacle merging only two spells, since it still reduces the amount of clutter by 1.
With the new tags for adding more promotions i will also merge more spells that will require higher tiers and merge more then 3 spells.
@Sephi
the workaround i proposed (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9108793&postcount=25) is not necessary i just playtested it.
Since Adaptive Enchantment is not allowed for followers of the cult of esus the spell will not apply, thus not obsoleting poisoned blade
Edit: updated the op concerning this. I will add more merges in the next couple of days.
Edit2: i also like how you changed the obsoletespell tag to link the obsolete spells in the pedia
the workaround i proposed (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9108793&postcount=25) is not necessary i just playtested it.
Since Adaptive Enchantment is not allowed for followers of the cult of esus the spell will not apply, thus not obsoleting poisoned blade
Edit: updated the op concerning this. I will add more merges in the next couple of days.
Edit2: i also like how you changed the obsoletespell tag to link the obsolete spells in the pedia
1.) good points. I will just wait with what you come up with
2.) I am going to fix it. I had done only one test and there was no issue with obsolete spell showing up. Did a second test and the obsolete spell showed up after the unit casted a spell. will investigate this.
3.) I will add two more promotionprereq tags
2.) I am going to fix it. I had done only one test and there was no issue with obsolete spell showing up. Did a second test and the obsolete spell showed up after the unit casted a spell. will investigate this.
3.) I will add two more promotionprereq tags
Changed Spell:
Embrace of Elements = Fireshield + Windwall + Fair Winds + Waterwalking
Requires Air I, Fire I and Water I (the Water I requirement currently does not work i commented it out, once you add more promotionprereq tags just un-comment it)
Fair Winds and Waterwalking are made obsolete by Embrace of Elements
New Spell:
Exalted Defense = Wall of Stone + Inspiration + Hope
Requires Spirit II, Earth I and Mind I (similar to the spell above Mind I is commented out and the merged spells are made obsolete)
I looked through all the spells and those two are the only ones that require living units and target their own stack/themselves (except for mutate). I tried giving the hasted promotion the <bPrereqAlive> tag but that does not matter when the spells says a promotion is applied it is applied no matter what the promotion wants (the only exception is unitcombat).
But look it from an other side it is still one less spell cluttering the menu, also having both spells separate really adds no tactical depth imho.
Here is a list of unused spells that could go together:
Affecting enemy units:
-Rust
-Maelstrom
-Slow (ice mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Snowfall (ice mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
Affecting enemy units that must be alive:
-Charm
-Wither
Permanent Buffs:
-Mutate (must be alive)
Limited Buffs:
-Lifeward
City Buildings:
-Wall of Force (Force mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Growth (Creation mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Birth (Creation mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Justice (requires Courthouse thus limiting other merged spells to this requirement)
Can go with any Spell:
-Dispel Magic
Summoning Spells:
-there are a lot however merging them would cause immense balance issues imho
So what are future possibilities (i could add them fast, but i am unsure if i should add them just post what you feel about them for example 1) yay 2) nooo 3) .... )
1) Dispel Magic + Rust + Maelstrom = Degrading Storm
2) Charm + Whither = Demoralizing Decay
3) including Life ward in Battle Preparation or Bravery
4) Mutate + Haste + Regeneration = Altering Burst
5) Including Dispel Magic in Sunrise (i actually don't think this is possible because of two python effects)
6)Shadwostep + Embrace of Elements = Engulfing Shadows
all names are pending of course, if you feel some could use a better one
if any of you have any further ideas feel free to add them, especially on how to manage summons (one way i thought of was a new spell: elemental horde it would summon a new unit which had the properties of all elementals combined (but not the combined strength ))
@sephi
in the files below i already commented out all things you already merged (disabling certain spells for esus and the already merged spells).
Embrace of Elements = Fireshield + Windwall + Fair Winds + Waterwalking
Requires Air I, Fire I and Water I (the Water I requirement currently does not work i commented it out, once you add more promotionprereq tags just un-comment it)
Fair Winds and Waterwalking are made obsolete by Embrace of Elements
New Spell:
Exalted Defense = Wall of Stone + Inspiration + Hope
Requires Spirit II, Earth I and Mind I (similar to the spell above Mind I is commented out and the merged spells are made obsolete)
I looked through all the spells and those two are the only ones that require living units and target their own stack/themselves (except for mutate). I tried giving the hasted promotion the <bPrereqAlive> tag but that does not matter when the spells says a promotion is applied it is applied no matter what the promotion wants (the only exception is unitcombat).
But look it from an other side it is still one less spell cluttering the menu, also having both spells separate really adds no tactical depth imho.
Here is a list of unused spells that could go together:
Affecting enemy units:
-Rust
-Maelstrom
-Slow (ice mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Snowfall (ice mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
Affecting enemy units that must be alive:
-Charm
-Wither
Permanent Buffs:
-Mutate (must be alive)
Limited Buffs:
-Lifeward
City Buildings:
-Wall of Force (Force mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Growth (Creation mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Birth (Creation mana is too rare imho to justify merge)
-Justice (requires Courthouse thus limiting other merged spells to this requirement)
Can go with any Spell:
-Dispel Magic
Summoning Spells:
-there are a lot however merging them would cause immense balance issues imho
So what are future possibilities (i could add them fast, but i am unsure if i should add them just post what you feel about them for example 1) yay 2) nooo 3) .... )
1) Dispel Magic + Rust + Maelstrom = Degrading Storm
2) Charm + Whither = Demoralizing Decay
3) including Life ward in Battle Preparation or Bravery
4) Mutate + Haste + Regeneration = Altering Burst
5) Including Dispel Magic in Sunrise (i actually don't think this is possible because of two python effects)
6)Shadwostep + Embrace of Elements = Engulfing Shadows
all names are pending of course, if you feel some could use a better one
if any of you have any further ideas feel free to add them, especially on how to manage summons (one way i thought of was a new spell: elemental horde it would summon a new unit which had the properties of all elementals combined (but not the combined strength ))
@sephi
in the files below i already commented out all things you already merged (disabling certain spells for esus and the already merged spells).
graywarden
King
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- Dec 6, 2007
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- 819
Help and Strategy Tags are made now.
graywarden
King
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 819
if i were you i would wait for the completion of the module, there are still many things up in the air
what i would really like to see is further ideas and constructive criticism/ opinions
tesb,
well i can always edit as long as i know what you change, it doesnt take very long, and i like being apart of building the tags, instead of just looking for bad ones... hhahaa
i guess i will have to stop my ranger ways and put on a magician hat then....... i will try to be more magic orientated in the future. im actually still running a test on 8.01 as the balseraps. part of my testing is seeing how far i go before i hit a MAF.
im a bit of a traditionalist gamer, and tend to be more of a builder/expansionist so the magic systems/equipment systems/and the other really neat stuff hardly gets used by me. though i do need to change my MoO so I can help test some of these other things, its just hard for me to mentally change how i play... haha.....
i made a little overview on what is done and what is planned for the next version
if someone has ideas about them please let me know
Edit: the elemental horde is not 4 summons in one cast it is a new creature with the strength of the strongest elemental, the speed of the fastest elemental ect.
if someone has ideas about them please let me know
Edit: the elemental horde is not 4 summons in one cast it is a new creature with the strength of the strongest elemental, the speed of the fastest elemental ect.
captainmission
Chieftain
How about a summon availale at mastery of fire and water promotion (steam element?) and earth and air promotion (sand sorm monster?)?
Embrace of Elements: I wouldn't allow it waterwalking. far too powerful for a tier1 spell
you will probably often want to cast regeneration or haste without the effect of mutation. For the moment I would combine only regeneration and haste, but also give it nature 1 as a prereq.
Is it possible to include Lifeward into Sunrise?
rest looks great!
for buttons, would be good if you search for some pictures and post a link or screenshot. Button size is 64x64, so source picture should be atleast this big. Always easier if more people search, sometimes it's just luck to find a great picture for a button
If you need help with python, just let me know.
you will probably often want to cast regeneration or haste without the effect of mutation. For the moment I would combine only regeneration and haste, but also give it nature 1 as a prereq.
Is it possible to include Lifeward into Sunrise?
rest looks great!
for buttons, would be good if you search for some pictures and post a link or screenshot. Button size is 64x64, so source picture should be atleast this big. Always easier if more people search, sometimes it's just luck to find a great picture for a button
If you need help with python, just let me know.
sephi if you look at the chart
i provided you can see that i dropped waterwalking from embrace of elements already. i agree about haste + regeneration, i added mutation because it was the only spell that could go with it and as stated above haste + regeneration alone is not that great of a merge either.
i don't think it is possible to add lifeward in sunrise since lifewards targets your own units while blinding light and destroy undead targets enemies. the only possible way is that you add lifeward in the python effect of destroy undead. speaking of help with certain python effect and sunrise:
i dropped the pythonreq in sunrise so that the spell could be cast even when there are no undead around for the blinding light effect. the good thing is sunrise will still only damage undead and blind everything while the blind effect still keeps its chance of resistance (i never saw the destroy undead effect resisted in my play tests). the downside is that you can cast the spell even when there are no units on an adjective tile. so if you could add a modified pythonreq that requires an enemy unit around the caster everything would be perfect or merge lifeward in the destroy undead effect.
i will keep an eye out for button art and post links when i have done coding (should take about 1 or two more days).
Spoiler :
i provided you can see that i dropped waterwalking from embrace of elements already. i agree about haste + regeneration, i added mutation because it was the only spell that could go with it and as stated above haste + regeneration alone is not that great of a merge either.
i don't think it is possible to add lifeward in sunrise since lifewards targets your own units while blinding light and destroy undead targets enemies. the only possible way is that you add lifeward in the python effect of destroy undead. speaking of help with certain python effect and sunrise:
i dropped the pythonreq in sunrise so that the spell could be cast even when there are no undead around for the blinding light effect. the good thing is sunrise will still only damage undead and blind everything while the blind effect still keeps its chance of resistance (i never saw the destroy undead effect resisted in my play tests). the downside is that you can cast the spell even when there are no units on an adjective tile. so if you could add a modified pythonreq that requires an enemy unit around the caster everything would be perfect or merge lifeward in the destroy undead effect.
i will keep an eye out for button art and post links when i have done coding (should take about 1 or two more days).
Lord Katana
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2009
- Messages
- 178
Been reading this for the first time, and i think i got what u all are planning. And i like it
But i've been thinking. If the main object is less clutter on the castbar would it be possible to to do this precisely they other way around?
I mean get one spell name which can be chosen as initial skill, so you can directly learn "adaptive enchantsments" when u have access to fire1 but it will only cast fireshield. Once you get access to air1 and choose the air 1 promotion, the spell adaptive enchantments will cast both fireshield and fairwinds. And same goes for windfall. Instead of the other way around where you have to have all three before they disappear into adaptive enchantments.
This might make it also possible to later add more spells to it, or use it to increase the potency of mages. One effect of this could be for example with firemana in mind that you get the spell "Do cool fire stuff" when choosing fire 1. This spell then upgrades (under the same name, still only one button) when u choose fire 2 and again under fire 3. THis would enable one archmage to cast fireshield on stack, 1 fireball and 1 elemental. All in one go... And there is no downside to this. If a player doesn't need that particular unit, then he can just ignore it and it will be gone the next turn.
just my two cents....
But i've been thinking. If the main object is less clutter on the castbar would it be possible to to do this precisely they other way around?
I mean get one spell name which can be chosen as initial skill, so you can directly learn "adaptive enchantsments" when u have access to fire1 but it will only cast fireshield. Once you get access to air1 and choose the air 1 promotion, the spell adaptive enchantments will cast both fireshield and fairwinds. And same goes for windfall. Instead of the other way around where you have to have all three before they disappear into adaptive enchantments.
This might make it also possible to later add more spells to it, or use it to increase the potency of mages. One effect of this could be for example with firemana in mind that you get the spell "Do cool fire stuff" when choosing fire 1. This spell then upgrades (under the same name, still only one button) when u choose fire 2 and again under fire 3. THis would enable one archmage to cast fireshield on stack, 1 fireball and 1 elemental. All in one go... And there is no downside to this. If a player doesn't need that particular unit, then he can just ignore it and it will be gone the next turn.
just my two cents....
hmm this would instead by very easily possible, just name every spell in that line adaptive enchantment. the downside however would be greater imho:
1)
if you have two mages say one with nature 2 and one with enchantment 2 both could then cast adaptive enchantment, but they would have different effects. i think this is too much confusion for the player
2)
it was not my intention to remove spells, i wanted to keep the multitude of existing spells while reducing the cluttering for high lvl mages
3) if would do this for only one line of magic, say fire so a mage with fire 1 could cast blaze, fireshield, fireball and fire elemental. this is not possible for all spell lines since a spell can only work either on enemies or friendly units and it can either work with range of one or two or only on the own stack. it either work for only living units or all units ect. ...
it would also drastically shift the blalance, so this suggestion is not doable (to my knowledge) and not balanced, but somehow i like the concept
1)
if you have two mages say one with nature 2 and one with enchantment 2 both could then cast adaptive enchantment, but they would have different effects. i think this is too much confusion for the player
2)
it was not my intention to remove spells, i wanted to keep the multitude of existing spells while reducing the cluttering for high lvl mages
3) if would do this for only one line of magic, say fire so a mage with fire 1 could cast blaze, fireshield, fireball and fire elemental. this is not possible for all spell lines since a spell can only work either on enemies or friendly units and it can either work with range of one or two or only on the own stack. it either work for only living units or all units ect. ...
it would also drastically shift the blalance, so this suggestion is not doable (to my knowledge) and not balanced, but somehow i like the concept
basically changing the pythonreq from "any undead" to "any enemy", right? I can do that!
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