TGOM03 - Celts in Space (C3C Demi-god)

[scoutsout]

Got it.

Hopefully I can get to Hammi's horses soon... I really hate the gpt we're paying to Hannibal for those....

 

[Bede]

If you have veteran boats in a fleet the enemy will attack them first, so the best way to handle troop shipping is to have as many empty veterans (or frigates) as you expect to see enemy attackers, then load your troops onto regular boats. If you are short of veterans then at least one in the fleet to absorb the first attack by the enemy's strongest attacker.

I don't foresee any problems as there has been no sign of an enemy navy so far, other than a Hittite caravel that drifts in and out of the fog every so often.

@scout - I debated canceling the deal as the cavalry were pretty useless except to hunt down wandering maces for promtion to elite after cannon and treb bombardment then for use in attacking wounded city defenders in hopes of pulling an elite to general promotion for a cav army. All attempts there failed to win any batons, though.

 

[gmaharriet]

We've got the seasonal joy of /B/a/c/h's (Oops! I meant Handel's) Hallelujah Chorus

Quoting myself and feeling sheepish. I KNEW better than this...but it sounded good at the moment.

 

[Bede]

Think of it as a Requiem for Mursilis!

 

[scoutsout]

Pre-flight check: Research at 90% for Electricity in 4 (642gpt, a rate we can't sustain...) Hannibal has it...dial up Hannibal and buy Electricity for Silks+Wines+605g+230gpt. Scientific Method in 15 at positive cash flow. Fiddle with the specialists to get it in 12. Renew Horses with Hannibal for Salt+43gpt. The savings on the horse trade lets me take science back up a notch. SciMeth in 10.

start the MilAcad in GOC as a pre-build...

Take Joanie's treasury for Physics. Rush a couple of settlers...

IBT - equip some settlers...

Turn 1/960 - whack a Hittite MDI. Some worker stuff.

IBT - Babylon and Carthage sign peace.

Turn 2/970 ... SwampTown founded... troops move out.

IBT - I miss a couple of screenshots as the cables from the foreign office start flying...

And then this...

Some cities riot as we lost Bach's and Spices on the same IBT.

...more to follow...

 

[scoutsout]

Turn 3/980 ... we lost some MDI and a Cav in Hattusas...but our trusty Gallic Sword army re-takes Hattusas from a lone musket.

IBT - GOC and TJ'ville riot. My stupid MapStat is acting up. (reboot)

Back to the game.

Turn 4/990 - Science down, lux up. SciMeth in 7... hoping Hannibal comes up with Industrialization soon. (As it turns out...he wouldn't. Silly me, thinking he'd go for Industrialization over Replaceable Parts while involved in a slugfest...)

IBT - American Frigates bombard our NW peninsula. Swap a build to a frigate. More cables from the State Department.

Turn 5/1000 AD We take Hatusha.

IBT - Carthage and France sign peace.

Turn 6/1010 Our trebuchets and Cannon take a total of one hit point off the defenders of Ugarit. Axima founded. Noviomagus founded.

IBT - Japanese start Shake's

Turn 7/1020 - We Capture Ugarit. Wine Hills founded this turn.

IBT - Washington builds Shakespeare's Theater.

 

[scoutsout]

Turn 8/1030 Durocortorum founded as an infill development/specialist farm.

IBT - Carthage has a new tech, and it's not Industrialization. It's Replaceable Parts.

Turn 9/1040 - our troops land at Nippur; a bunch of 'em. I've got I Corps, II Corps, 9 Cavalry, 2 Elite MDI, and 18 Cannon (yup, I upgraded the trebuchets ). Gold Hill founded this turn.

IBT - Carthage wants 18g to trade world maps. No deal. He won't trade RP either.

Turn 10 - Desperately trying to get another tech, I shut down Research. SciMeth in 2. Try to renew lux deals with Carthage to get RepParts. No deal. Sensing that Carthage isn't making any headway against America, I take the alliance v. Abe off the table. Abe wants 80g for peace. I don't think so... but I'll let the team decide.

Tokugawa offers Democracy+WM+17g for Steam Power. I'll let the team decide on that too.

In my last executive decision on this turnset, I "decide" to capture Nippur. Yeah, right. Like that wasn't a foregone decision.

 

[scoutsout]

@Brother Bede: My humblest apologies if I hosed us by going for Scientific Method instead of Industrialization. As you will see, there is an outside shot for a two-fer, but we really need your mind at this juncture. The tactical situation isn't nearly as urgent as the strategic, and this is where your mind is better than mine.

After Action Review

The Good: We've got some more towns, and we'll soon have our own supply of ponies.

The Bad: The diplomatic situation seems as sticky as that blasted Napoleonic Nutroll in the Conquests series.

The Ugly: America is not far from becoming a full-on runaway AI. Have you guys looked at the cultural stats in F8?!?! He's got like... 7x+ our culture!!! Our AI Allies have done little to stem the rise of America...and if we are not invading America by my next turnset, we could be in real trouble.

I have an idea we might want to try when we invade America, which I'll share in a moment... but here's the tactical situation:

• GOC is building the Military Academy as a pre-build for Theory of Evolution. With Abe's current production, I seriously doubt we'll get it... but there is that shot. Alternatively, it could be swapped for Heroic Epic without wasting any shields (modest overrun IBT).
• War weariness is starting to be felt. I believe we can alleviate that by getting peace with America at a cost of 80g. This has the added advantage of busting Abe's rep (currently allied against us w/France) and opening up the possiblity of normalizing relations with that Fickle French chick. Peace with America now might buy us a respite to get a few infrastructure builds going, re-group and go after the Americans in earnest in about 20 turns.
• On our current campaign...
  • Because we'll need to do some island-hopping to finish the Hittites, I rather doubt we'll finish them off during gmaharriet's turns. The logistics are a bit much.
  • Most of the Hittite and Babylonian towns are size 1 with no culture. We might want to proceed slowly, but in any case...we'll need combat settlers to claim land liberated by auto-razing.
  • Resistance at Nippur was relatively light... two veteran rifles and one regular. The reason for this is simple: Hammi and Mursilis have been slugging it out with footsoldiers. I saw Babylonian rifles attacking Hittite muskets NE of Nippur when I landed our troops there.
• Some notes on trading:
  • I took the alliance and 2 lux deals off the table with Carthage. These could be renewed in pre-flight, or used as trading leverage when Scientific Method comes in.
  • If we sign peace with Abe, there is an outside shot at a two-fer trade. We would probably need to try SciMeth and some lux for Industrialization (Abe has monopoly) and then techs and lux to Carthage for Replaceable Parts. If Abe is working on Corporation, it might work.
  • We can sell Steam to Japan for Democracy and a modest amount of gold. I suggest we take that in Harriet's pre-flight so that we reduce America's and Carthage's trading leverage when SciMeth comes in.
• I did manage to get some rail projects going. Even if we can' get industrialization, we should be able to get Replaceable Parts and double the number or rail crews (by halving the current crews).
• Science might need to be taken back up a notch to get SciMeth next turn. I can't remember if I did that before saving the game off or not. (Sorry )

@gmaharriet: Sorry to leave you with such a crazy pre-flight and first turn. Here's >>> The Save <<<

I'm going to crank up the game again and see what I can come up with for an American Campaign.

 

[scoutsout]

Sorry for spamming up the thread, but here are some thoughts on an American Campaign:

• The hilltop south of Baltimore (double circle) looks like the logical landing spot. It appears to be the shortest sea lane we could support. Raze and replace Baltimore. Here's my idea:
  • Take an Infantry Army and 4-8 Explorers, and go on a pillaging rampage along the yellow axis.
  • This axis may move, depending on the sources of American Rubber and/or Oil.
  • Yellow flags indicate strategic resources now known. Saltpeter (Cav and Frigates) and Horses are the priority targets at the moment.
  • Rip up terrain, cripple production, limit movement...and generally make it difficult for Abe's southern cities to support his northern front.
• If possible, use a more conventional combined arms force to conquer the lands enclosed by the green line. This would give us Smith's Trading company and two luxuries.
• Let Japan and Carthage take the land to the west. If we can, sack everything west of the green line and don't even try to resettle it.

 

[gmaharriet]

Got it. I'll await Bede's comments before playing...probably not tonight, but we'll see.

Yes, please, a bit of peace with Abe would give us some breathing room to finish off Mursillis and Hammi, consolidate what we have and plan toward invading America.

I looked at the save and see we have at least 20 settlers in the works. Ought to be able to fill in a lot of land.

That Pancho is sure a scrappy guy. No fear of the big bullies, huh?

 

[Bede]

It feels right at this point to take a bit of a breather. Having to scrap for living room and now resources has put us a little behind the curve for an early space shot, especially since the Abester is turning into such a culture vulture and will need some trimmin'.

So I have a few misgivings about a peace treaty with Abe, but since the Carthage alliance is softening a little, let's finish the Murs and the Ham, meanwhile get a peace deal with Lincoln (see if you can't get a tech in the deal though don't pay him anything in gpt unless it is just a small token payment, say 4 or 5).

We need to get to five or six turn research to have a shot at space, so let's push that. Get our hands on Econ and make use of wealth (need at least four uncorrupted gold to make it work) if we have to. Then burn the midnight oil 'till it hurts once we have universities in the greater than 20 or so uncorrupted gold towns, tax guys everywhere else, and see what a maxed out science slider can do for us.

ToE would be a good catch for the boost but trading SciMeth out to get Industrialization and RepParts an even bigger bonus.

One thing we have going for us in the tech race is that Abe put Shake's in just the wrong place, a low commerce town. That extra population won't put much in his coffers compared to what it could have done had Washington been a coastal town (had Shake's and the two scientific boosters in a coastal powerhouse city once, along with a gold mountains and some nice riverside grasslands. by the time Robotics came around that one town was producing a ton of beakers)

Anyway, gmaH and the General have cut their teeth and earned some spurs with some nice DG warring, I certainly trust their judgement to deal with the issues of peace (note to gmaH - watch those food overruns in the producing towns!)

 

[scoutsout]

So I have a few misgivings about a peace treaty with Abe,

As do I... but it'll buy us some time to go after him in earnest in20 turns.....

see if you can't get a tech in the deal though don't pay him anything in gpt unless it is just a small token payment, say 4 or 5).

Peace with Abe will cost 80g. The discussion ends there. If you want to keep the flames lit under his butt... I'm game for it... but 80g is the cost of peace witih Abe.

We need to get to five or six turn research to have a shot at space, so let's push that. Get our hands on Econ

We have Economics. I researched it on my previous turnset. Where shall we build wealth? I would rather build pointy sticks... with which to invade America.....

ToE would be a good catch for the boost but trading SciMeth out to get Industrialization and RepParts an even bigger bonus.

But what if we can only get RepParts for SciMeth? What then? Hold SciMeth, and research...???

I'm gonna have another look at the save...

 

[gmaharriet]

(note to gmaH - watch those food overruns in the producing towns!)

I'm unsure of what you mean. Are you saying to MM more carefully to move citizens from high food tiles to high shield tiles? If so, I'll work on that.

I'll play tomorrow night.

Edit: On the food overruns, did you mean in corrupt towns at max pop and without an aqua and producing only 1 shield and 1 gold to change the citizens working food tiles to specialists?

Additional question... I've noticed that when we have captured cities with resistors, the citizens who are not resisting are almost always turned to clowns. Is there any reason why clowns work better than tax/science guys? On my last turnset I changed some of them and it seemed like the City governor would sometimes change them back to clowns, making me decide they weren't dependable for science, but they could produce gold for awhile.

 

[TimBentley]

Additional question... I've noticed that when we have captured cities with resistors, the citizens who are not resisting are almost always turned to clowns. Is there any reason why clowns work better than tax/science guys? On my last turnset I changed some of them and it seemed like the City governor would sometimes change them back to clowns, making me decide they weren't dependable for science, but they could produce gold for awhile.

lurker's comment: When the resistors stop resisting, they'll turn into unhappy people, so clowns are useful for avoiding disorder (one side effect of which is increased flip chance). I use enough clowns to keep the people content (assuming every resistor stopped resisting) and turn the rest into scientists (or taxmen if needed).

 

[scoutsout]

I'm unsure of what you mean. Are you saying to MM more carefully to move citizens from high food tiles to high shield tiles? If so, I'll work on that.

Probably not... Consider GOC (pop12). When you rail an irrigated plains tile, you get an extra food. Railing a second irrigated plains tile gets you more food - food you can't really use. Mining that second railed plains tile will re-balance the food and produce more shields... which we really need at GOC right now.

Additional question... I've noticed that when we have captured cities with resistors, the citizens who are not resisting are almost always turned to clowns....

TimBentley nailed it on this one. Rioting towns are much more likely to flip. When the governor takes over IBT, he'll change citizens around to get positive food, but never so many that the town instantly riots. Hiring clowns is the safest way to starve a city down.

 

[gmaharriet]

Sorry this is taking so long. I've spent over 4 hours, only played 2 turns and I'm very tired. I'm going to post my log and save to date if anyone wants input. I'll work on it some more tomorrow night, but at the rate I'm going I can't promise to have it finished then.

Interim Report:

Preturn 1050ad - Dial up Abe and get peace for 80g. Mayhemium and TJville immediately become unhappy. Hire taxman in TJville creating 1 food shortage and change scientist in Mayhemium to clown. Up sci to 10% to get SciMeth in 1. Joanie still won't talk to us. Hire some taxmen in towns at max pop, bringing gpt to +121. Switch Forward Post (pop 12) from harbor to galleon in 1. Hit enter.

IT - Inca and Hitties sign peace. SciMeth comes in -> Replacable Parts in 21. Babylon worker -> worker, Isca harbor -> cannon, Forward Post galleon -> galleon, GrapeVine settler -> cannon. Resistance ends in Nippur.

1. 1060ad - Dial up Abe. He won't trade Industrial for SciMeth or anything else (can't be done). Joanie will give us peace +8gpt. Trade dyes and incense to Hannibal for WM and 650g. Trade Medicine to Joanie for spices, 4g and 41gpt. Found Whaletown S/E of Wine Hill. -> galleon. Rush settler in Alesia for 16g.

Move troops and cannon toward Adana. Kill rifle with vet cav losing 1hp. Attack with army killing musket, but army retreats, cav kills spear and retreats, we lose cav against spear, then take Adana with a cav, but no promotions. Adaba auto razes. See 2 Japanese caravels just off the coast there.

Raise science to 50% and MM for RP in 7 at -108gpt with 812 in the kitty.

IT - France and Inca sign peace. Hattusas worker -> worker, SwampTown worker -> cannon, Alesia settler -> cannon, Richborough cav -> market, Harrietsburg cav -> market. Our palace gets both spires and shrubbery.

2. 1070ad - Found Gergovia S/E of WhaleTown -> cannon, Found Sea View S of Nineveh -> galleon, found Agedincum S/E of JungleWest -> cannon. II Corps is healing. Start moving arty and units toward Shuruppak. Rush settler in Deva for 36g. Don't like the Japanese caravels hanging around the empty space where Adana was.

The save:

 

[scoutsout]

The gardener paused from his task to eavesdrop on the Empresses' musings. Though he would have preferred to have worked in a properly named Celtic Capitol (like, say...Entremont), he was somehow drawn to this place... and somehow felt sympathetic to the Emperess who must share the throne with the likes of a General who prefers Mayhem, a Scout who prefers to "Recon by Force", and a Grumpy Old Monk who struts his hour within the garden, trying to turn grassland into gold.

"What shall I do?!?!?" muttered the Ancient Crone... as she wandered through the Palace Gardens. "That Grumpy Old Monk expects me to make our scientists burn every candle on Research, while that blasted warmonger Scout wants me to keep the forges burning!"

"Praytell my lady, what seems to be the matter?" asked the gardener, knowing full well the nature of her dilemma.

"While the Monk sits in his Ivory Abbey grousing about gold and knowledge, the General leaves these messy rockpiles that must be cleaned up, and my Cavalry Scout is always planning a war that is 20 turns off."

"Twenty Turns, my lady?" The gardener was confused...

"Don't concern yourself with time, kind sir. We ruler types measure time differently."

"Is there anything I can do to help?" asked the gardener...

"Just let me enjoy this peaceful moment in your garden for a while..." replied the Empress. "I must find a way to strike a balance between these play... the members of the High Council."

Feeling somewhat confident, the gardener decided to try to gain favor with the current leader. "My lady, would you like to be able to take refuge in the most beautiful garden in the world?"

"I would like that very much!"

Without warning and without making a sound, the gardener rushed to his shed, returning with a small vial of seeds.

The empress was curious; "Will these make our garden the most beautiful in the world?"

"Yes, and no my lady" replied the gardener. "These are the seeds of the Fire Maple, which will quickly consume any garden in which you plant them."

Now the emperess was puzzled.... "I'm not quite sure I understand..."

Now the gardener was quiet, but firm. Pressing the vial of seeds into her hand, he whispered. "My lady, if you would be kind to an old gardener..." He paused for a moment, and then concluded: "that lunatic...er... Cavalry Scout... doesn't take kindly to suggestions... but if you will please give these seeds to him, and tell him they are of the ancient Fire Maple...."

The gardener's voice trailed off.

The Empress grew nervous. "And what shall I tell him?"

The gardener regained his composure. "Tell him that if he should plant them well, the Celtic Gardens will be the most beautiful in the world."

And with that the gardener resumed his toils.

 

[gmaharriet]

You tell a lovely tale, as always. I think the empress is still no less confused though. What happens next? I know that Sir Scout has come to rescue her many times in her distress.

 

[gmaharriet]

I'm afraid this is just another interim report. I'm almost done with turn 6, and each turn is taking a longggg time. Here's the log from where I left off:

Turn 2 continued:
Swap Entremont from court to aqua, Glanum from market to aqua, Exrockpile from court to aqua, Durocortorum from lib to cannon and Vilcas from market to aqua. Dial up Tokugawa and get Demo for Steam and 9g. Dial up Joanie and trade Electricity for Free Artistry and WM.

IT - Japanese ships sail west. Entremont aqua -> court

3. 1080ad - GOC becomes unhappy, so hire clown and taxman. Scroll forward and TJville, Scoutsrest, Mayhemium, Bugsrest, Lurkersville, Tolosa, Last Resort also unhappy. Abe must have gotten SciMeth on the IT. Dial up Hannibal and buy RP for SciMeth, WM and 267g. It appears we have no rubber (Abe and Hannibal have it)...the nearest source is by Hubishna on the southern island. Lower sci to 40% and set to Industrialization in 9 and raise lux to 20% at -63. Re-MM for increased happiness at -50g, then MM again to get Indust down to 8 turns at -62g. Mine food tile at GOC to get ToE down to 11 turns. Lots of railing.

Decide to split units on island into 2 sections with 9 cannon each and send toward Shuruppak and Kadesh. The healing army can catch up when healthy, since the other units are slowed by cannon.

IT - Bab LB comes out of Shuruppak. The Americans destroy the Inca. Scoutsrest cav -> arty, Bede's Abbey uni -> cav, Deva settler -> arty. We get a 3rd floor and another wing on our palace.

4. 1090ad - Elite MDI kills Bab LB, loses 2 hp but no promo. Move troops. Will attack Shuruppak next turn...rifle showing. More railing.

IT - TJville market -> cav, Ankuwa settler -> arty, Bugsrest lib -> market

5. 1100ad - RL 2 rifles in Shuruppak. Kill 1 with elite cav, no promo, kill other with elite MDI, no promo, but the city is ours -> temple. Move other group of units to Kadesh and will attack next turn. Send 3 settlers to the island.

IT - Babs and France sign peace. Kadesh gets a reinforcement. Hittite LB landed east of Nippur. Mayhemium market -> cav

6. 1110ad - Hittite LB loses hp to cannon and killed by vet cav. At Kadesh 2 rifles are rl'd by cannon,and killed by I Corps, but there is still a LB. He is rl'd by cannon, killed by elite MDI with no promo, and Kadesh is ours -> temple. There is 1 resistor and 1 slave.

OK, question for the team. We have rubber near Hubishna (currently unclaimed by anybody), which I will be able to take in the next 2 or 3 turns, and I have 3 settlers just landed on the island. There is a harbor building in Nippur and it will take 176g to rush it, and we only have 150g in the kitty. I want to bring over some workers to get it hooked up, but it won't do much good without the harbor. [Edited to add: Hubishna is the Babs' last city and then they're done for unless they have a settler on a boat somewhere. ]

Right now Industrialism is due in 5 and the ToE in 8. If I lower science to 20% for 1 turn (Ind in 8), I can rush the harbor next turn. Other concerns...we have been running at -64gpt and we will be broke. Also a lux deal with Carthage is due to expire in either 1 or 2 turns, and although our gpt would increase, we will have happiness problems.

Railnet is through most of island (a few cities to hook up yet), so we can move quickly to most places. Core is being railed as well.

Once again I am very tired...not thinking very clearly...and can't finish tonight. I need input from the team. I'm posting the save, and if you're in a hurry, someone else can take it, but I'm mostly enjoying myself and would like (with some advice) to finish tomorrow night.

The save:

 

[Whomp]

lurker's comment: Gram you are doing great! Scout and Bede are truly putting you to the test and this is good. Listen to the gardener. ToE will open up the trading options big time. One question I have is whether you've started a Hoover's pre-build?