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TH5 - Cutthroat Capitalist Competitors

OK, next time the Palace is moving. On the tech situation, I needed my money for courts, markets and banks. Now if someone didn't kill our rep and could I could use a couple hundred GPT for a tech purchases..... :rolleyes:

Four people are up before my next turn so one of them can save our money until we have enough to buy in @4th. :D Rome was still doubtful for Nationalism for peace and I did not want their capital moving to the island.

-6gntxn
 
Update: Been spending all day today installing my DSL at home. Had to replace the wiring from the outside network box to the phone jack inside. What an adventure, working on a live line - whenever it rings I get shocked. :crazyeye: Seems to be working now though. Will play this game after downloading some high-speed p0rn... :D :lol:
 
Wow, we've got a lot of cities. :goodjob: Didn't realize we'd eaten up both Azteca AND Rome. :hammer:

Can I attack anyone? Korea's got infantry, and Greece's border cities are all small and we've only got 9 cavalry. The only other logistical possibility is Egypt, but that long and musket-defended border makes me cringe. Looks like I'll go for building - ideally some stock exchanges. Core cities swap to universities to prebuild. A few cities without libraries swap to them to complete this turn in case I decide to research Corporation ourselves.

Hey, Tenochtitlan has Bach's. Neat. :thumbsup:

From Cities drops from Tex's 2110 to 1973 after micromanagement.

==========

1160 AD: Moving workers and saving for Industrialization.


1170 AD: Could afford Industrialization, but Iroquois lack Electricity that I'd like to broker for it, and we can't afford the latter tech yet. I have to let a few stock exchange prebuilds complete as universities, but that's okay.


1180 AD: Electricity from Greece for $2260. Electricity + $30 to Iros for Industrialization.

Corporation is in play, but it's a monopoly by Korea. However, we can research it ourselves in 4 turns with a surplus. I start on that. Cities swap to factories to prebuild for the stock exchanges (how's <i>that</i> for a move you won't see in any other SG? :D )

I need a governor command, Swap All Cities to Factory. :)


1210 AD: Egypt got Corporation and I top off our last turn of research for $12. :) Nice - Greece got Replaceable Parts. Corporation to them plus $900 gets us RP.

Corp + RP aren't quite enough to get Nationalism from the Iroquois, but I can renegotiate peace with them to kick in some gold-per-turn. (We all forgot about this tactic when buying techs!) Interestingly, though, Corp + RP + renegotiated peace IS enough for Nationalism without us even paying any cash. :goodjob: Note that by the RBCiv rules, we are required to observe the full peace treaty duration with the Iroquois.

We have two rubbers and I sell one to the Iros for 37/turn. I visit most of our maxed-size cities and draft infantry; we've got tons of happiness and they'll regrow before the end of my turn.

1220 AD: Korea starts ToE :eek: They've still got a monopoly on Medicine!

I partial-rush several stock exchanges by way of cathedrals and colosseums.

1240 AD: Full-rush many stock exchanges.

1250 AD: MM, and From Cities stands at a whopping +2548, an increase of 20.8%.

We caught up by five techs on my turn. :D Wang's still got monopolies on Medicine, Scientific Method, and Refining. We're also behind by Communism; someone will want to get police stations eventually. Next leader could try to do that, or try to buy Medicine and research Sanitation to get hospitals going.

I left Carthage building Wall Street; it doesn't improve the From Cities but it's nice to have anyway. I left most other cities building factories, although I expect they'll get converted into police stations or hospitals. There's still some stock exchanges to do, too.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/th5-1250ad.zip

Dark Savant 43.1
Rubberjello 37.7
6thGenTexan 32.6
Speaker 40.5
T-hawk 59.7

T-hawk/Dark Savant/Speaker/6thGenTexan/Rubberjello

Go get em, Darkie. :king:
 
I got it. I don't have any more time today for Civ, but I can get this one done by probably Tuesday.

What are we doing to account for turn differences again? Are we just going to play past the end of the game? That's actually not quite as good an idea as I thought it was, as by the time we get that far in the game it'll be hard to further boost our economy, as once we hit the late Industrial Age (stock exchanges, hospitals, police stations, commercial docks) there's nothing but city growth and conquest for more money. :hammer:

And is there actually a requirement to win the game? :D Korea might win by UN or space before we hit the Modern Age ourselves. :eek:
 
We're going to reach domination, long before Korea gets anywhere near space. We're already at least halfway there, judging by eyeballing it. Once we get tanks, every leader is going to capture at least 5-10 enemy cities if he wants to. Even if we never build factories, by that time our economy will be strong enough to rush 10 or more tanks every turn. Maybe Korea gets to mechs before we get tanks rolling (they're going to build ToE), but nobody else will.

Korea or someone might get to build the UN, but by population we're guaranteed to be their election opponent, and we know how to buy alliances against a potential diplomatic victor. Nobody will win an election.

As for how to account for turn differences, I'm of a mind to just calculate winners by every possible method, and if different people win different categories, you're both winners. :)
 
How about a few screenies. While I realize time is money :) , so is keeping up appearances :)

Grimjack
 
Korea or someone might get to build the UN, but by population we're guaranteed to be their election opponent, and we know how to buy alliances against a potential diplomatic victor. Nobody will win an election.

Well, we broke an alliance with every civilization remaining in the game -- what are the circumstances under which a civilization we broke an alliance with will relent and grant us an alliance? I know it's possible to get alliances if you break an alliance with just one civ, but all civs? I didn't think that was possible.

How about a few screenies. While I realize time is money :), so is keeping up appearances :)

It doesn't cost Carthage, Inc. any money, so I suppose that can be arranged. :)

(and, in another note, I will have that new Civ3-capable computer at home Real Soon Now! No longer will I have to Civ at work! I can probably play tomorrow evening; if not I'll keep everyone posted.)
 
Originally posted by T-hawk
cities are all small and we've only got 9 cavalry.
Click to expand...

What the *blipping* hell??!! What the heck happened to our army??? Who sent them all to the glue factory?

*Sigh* I guess I'm really not cut out for this competition. My desires to win the game overall cannot be overcome by the short term goals. It is indeed an eye-opening exercise though, and I've learned a lot and glad to be part of it.

Good job, T-Hawk, in catching (almost) up in Tech! Sometimes I really hate Korea. They seem to always be the tech leader which never gets involved in wars in my last few games.
 
Generally, you can still sign alliances even with a trashed rep, since the AI simply considers them per-turn agreements. You just have to pay extra, and you can't put anything lump sum on their side.

Just to check, I reloaded my last save. Declared war on Korea, and asked the Iroquois for an alliance. The advisor said "never accept", but when I asked Hiawatha what he'd need, he put some gpt on our side.

As for our army, what we've discovered is actually a very economically efficient way to wage war. Why leave extra troops lying around getting paid? Build 'em and use 'em up. :king: OK, so it's not so effective in the shields department, but it's effective in the not-paying-standing-troops department. :D

Once the hospitals and commercial docks get built, there won't be much left to do except to conquer more cities. I'm confident we'll win by domination. Even if we do in fact lose, so be it. No shame at all - certainly none in a game like this! - and we may even learn more that way.
 
I played most of my turn tonight, getting to the 10th turn but not quite being able to finish before I had to stop.

We are now a corporate police state! :devil2: Or at least we now have a whole bunch of police stations. Most of the significant banks and stock exchanges are also now done.

I also wiped out the Romans when our peace treaty expired, at the beginning of turn 10. I didn't realize that the Romans had a MPP with the Greeks, though. :eek: More to come tomorrow, when I'll be able to finish the turn and post pictures and the save.
 
Hey guys, sorry I wasn't able to quite finish in time. The soap opera that is the MLB playoffs has been rather distracting!

IT: What's this? The Koreans do not have a monopoly on Medicine; Egypt has it too. The lies some CEO's tell, sheesh. :rant:

I renegotiate our peace treaty with Egypt. Any war that I fight will be against the Romans or the Greeks, so this shouldn't affect any war plans for mine. I send Spices + Incense + WM + 33gpt + 5g to Cleo and receive Medicine.

I then send Medicine + WM + 715g to Hi and receive Communism. No, I do not want to switch to this commerce-unfriendly government! It does, however, permit me to properly police the property of Carthage, Inc. and quell all those unruly anti-free-trade protestors. I immediately swap many cities over to police station. :D

I also order many fishermen back to the farms and mines.

I rush a temple in Antium for 188g, a harbor in Tlacopan for 244g, and a granary in Buffalo for 160g. Miami will build a granary next, due next turn without shield loss. I swap several cities at size 12 to workers.

AD 1255 (1) Washington / Nora worker -> police station. Antium temple -> courthouse. Tlacopan harbor -> courthouse. Miami/Buffalo granary -> harbor.

The wise Carthaginian philosopher St. Augustine brings us this:





Hmm, Wang just discovered Sanitation. Hmm, not now, I think I like my lucre filthy. :lol: I do re-sell Incense to him for 24gpt, up from 22gpt.

Rush granary in Iol for 136g, in Tamuin for 192g, and in Tingis for 20g. Rush courthouse in Pompeii for 244g, in Cumae for 160g, and in Malinalco for 152g. Rush marketplace in Hispalis for 244g. Rush stock exchange in Carthago Novo for 324g.

AD 1260 (2) New York / Saldae worker -> police station. Tingis granary -> courthouse. Cumae courthouse -> bank. Iol granary -> police station. Pompeii courthouse -> marketplace. Malinalco courthouse -> police station. Hispalis marketplace -> granary. Carthago Novo stock exchange -> police station. Tamuin granary -> aqueduct. Sparta completes Universal Suffrage. Korea cascades to but does not crash-complete Theory of Evolution.

The Iroquois can pay 14gpt for Spices. Sold!

Rush stock exchange in Calaris for 260g. Rush granary in Veii for 192g. Rush police station in Teotihuacan for 340g, and in Tlaxcala for 292g. I disband a conscript infantry in Texcoco.

AD 1265 (3) Veii granary -> courthouse. Teotihuacan / Tlaxcala police station -> worker. Cadiz police station -> stock exchange. Calaris stock exchange -> police station.

Rush granary in Hispalis for 220g. Rush police station in Texcoco for 416g, and in Gades for 240g. Rush bank in Buffalo for 620g.

AD 1270 (4) Carthage / Texcoco police station -> worker. Teotihuacan worker -> stock exchange. Leptis Magna police station -> colosseum. Tlaxcala worker -> stock exchange. Buffalo bank -> aqueduct. Hispalis granary -> courthouse. Gades police station -> stock exchange.

Rush granary in Pisae for 176g, and in Antium for 228g. Rush bank in Cumae for 592g. Rush marketplace in Pompeii for 376g. Rush courthouse in Tingis for 312g.

AD 1275 (5) Carthage / Utica worker -> infantry. Tingis courthouse -> marketplace. Texcoco worker -> library. Antium / Pisae granary -> courthouse. Cumae bank -> police station. Hippo police station -> worker. Pompeii marketplace -> bank. Cirta police station -> galleon. Wonsan completes Theory of Evolution, taking Steel plus something that isn't Espionage.

Rush courthouse in Hispalis for 296g. Rush granary in Tlacopan for 224g. Spend 44g towards the police station in Sulcis. Rush police station in Malaca for 572g. Spend 176g towards the police station in New York.

AD 1280 (6) Hippo worker -> cavalry. Oea police station -> cavalry. Tlacopan granary -> courthouse. Hispalis courthouse -> bank. Malaca police station -> stock exchange.

Rush granary in Cumae for 216g. Rush worker in Hispalis for 80g, then rush bank for 600g. Rush aqueduct in Tamuin for 384g. Rush marketplace in Tingis for 388g.

AD 1285 (7) The Iroquois and Greeks sign a MPP. Tingis marketplace -> police station. Cumae granary -> police station. Xochicalco / Hadrumetum police station -> worker. Hispalis bank -> stock exchange. Tamuin aqueduct -> stock exchange.

Egypt has broken the Korean monopoly on Refining. Rush police station in Cumae for 600g.

AD 1290 (8) Theveste police station -> worker. Cumae police station -> stock exchange. Xochicalco worker -> coastal fortress. Hadrumetum worker -> factory. Cirta galleon -> coastal fortress.

Swap Tula to granary. Rush aqueduct in Buffalo for 336g.

AD 1295 (9) Egypt and Korea sign a MPP. Carthage/Utica infantry -> factory. New York / Leptis Minor / Sabratha /Rusicade / Atzcapotzalco / Rusaddir police station -> factory. Leptis Magna colosseum -> factory. Theveste worker -> factory. Buffalo aqueduct -> walls. Tula granary -> police station.

Rush stock exchange in Hispalis for 744g, in Gades for 760g, in Teotihuacan for 620g, and in Tlaxcala for 592g. Rush police station in Philadelphia for 436g, in New York for 280g, in Calaris for 416g, and in Saldae for 316g. I raise a bit of extra cash for the rushes by selling Industrialization to Seizure for all his gold and by selling around the WM. I have a bit of extra money. I sell the granary in Carthage, and I can rush a library in Cadiz for 56g, leaving me with 5g. :D

AD 1300 (10) Washington / Nora / Sulcis /Saldae / Calaris / Philadelphia build police stations. Teotihuacan / Tlaxcala / Hispalis / Gades build stock exchanges. Hippo / Oea build cavalry. Xochicalco / Cirta build coastal fortress. Cadiz builds library. Most of these cities swap to workers, as they are size 12 with full food boxes.

I join a worker into Calaris.

Egypt now has Sanitation, and the Iroquois now have Refining. I could broker if I had gpt or more gold on hand, but I don't have either.

The peace treaty with Rome has just expired, and I declare war on Rome. Whoa! Seizure in his OCC had a MPP with Greece, so Greece declares war on us! :eek: I honestly didn't see that, but oh well, my successor can take care of that. :lol: That didn't actually break any agreements with Greece unlawfully; there will be no SEC investigation here!

I capture a Greek settler pair that was meandering around our land. I kill two Roman units just outside their remaining city. That's three elite victories, but that's all the elite units I can work with. I capture Ravenna (1 cavalry lost, 2 rifles and 1 spear killed, 2g plundered), and I get this:



We have six turns left on our peace treaty with the Iroquois, so I cannot attack the Greeks on their land, because it will trigger Greece's MPP with the Iroquois.

Wait, I can broker with Korea! I renegotiate peace with Korea and acquire Sanitation and 223g for 52gpt. Sanitation + 1629g then go to the Iroquois for Refining. We have 4 oil, of which only one is currently connected. Korea also has Gems for sale, and a couple of our ex-Roman cities are a bit unhappy even after the elimination of Rome. I buy Gems from Korea for 105gpt.

I rush a temple in Lutetia for 120g, a library in Atlanta for 56g, and a granary in Baltimore for 48g.

And that's it. After careful cooking of books, our "From Cities" income is now +2972 for an increase of 16.6%. A bit disappointing, but opportunities for growth were getting slim here.

Here are two pictures that almost but not quite show all of Carthage, Inc.:




Most of our military has movement left, as you'll need to move troops into position to fend off the Greeks. Remember, you can't move any troops onto Greek territory for the next 6 turns. Good luck!

Download the save here!
 
Aha. Yeah, I've been riveted as well, but if the World Series turns out to be Yankees-Marlins, then this Thursday's game will be the last I watch for the year...

Anyways, good progress (as always. :) ) Yes, do stay off Greek land (actually, I believe the MPP only triggers if we attack a unit - you could move troops into position?) until we can attack them without forcing the Iroquois into betraying their peace treaty. Do check their MPP status frequently; if it expires we can attack Greece right away. Should be a fair bit of opportunity for growth here, as Speaker will get to build and prepare military for a few turns, sweep in and conquer on turns 6-8, and suppress the resisters. Plus we can finally build hospitals as well, and if that Palace finally gets moved...

BTW, one further rule I think we should add - if we ever build the intelligence agency, don't use Propaganda, as it'd be a terrible waste of cash and any gains from it are totally random.

Dark Savant 57.7
Rubberjello 37.7
6thGenTexan 32.6
Speaker 40.5
T-hawk 59.7

Speaker, we can wait for you to get back from your trip. (Tex is used to waiting by now anyway. :D ) Enjoy, and don't let your money-losing ways in Vegas carry back over to Carthage, Inc. :lol:
 
Yes, do stay off Greek land (actually, I believe the MPP only triggers if we attack a unit - you could move troops into position?)
Click to expand...

The MPP triggers if we attack a unit in Greek territory, or end the turn of a unit in Greek territory. That's how the inter-turn MPP declarations happen; civilizations A and B have a MPP, you have a unit in the territory of civilization B, civilization A declares war on you, and before you can take action at all, you are now at war with civilization B because of that unit in their territory.
 
So I have three rounds in, scoring +20.0, +23.1, and +16.6. This does not seem to jibe with the official total of +57.7.

I'd like to request an investigation into T-enron's accounting practices. :p :crazyeye:
 
Originally posted by T-hawk

Speaker, we can wait for you to get back from your trip. (Tex is used to waiting by now anyway. :D )
Click to expand...

I would not be able to play before Monday either. My Mother-in-law is taking over my office/gaming center/guest bedroom this weekend.

6gntxn
 
I said this:

The MPP triggers if we attack a unit in Greek territory, or end the turn of a unit in Greek territory. That's how the inter-turn MPP declarations happen; civilizations A and B have a MPP, you have a unit in the territory of civilization B, civilization A declares war on you, and before you can take action at all, you are now at war with civilization B because of that unit in their territory.
Click to expand...
Um, that's not quite right. Let me fix that:

The MPP triggers if we attack a unit in Greek territory, or end the turn of a unit in Greek territory. That's how the inter-turn MPP declarations happen; civilizations A and B have a MPP, you have a unit in the territory of civilization A, civilization A declares war on you, and before you can take action at all, you are now at war with civilization B because of that unit in the territory of civilization A.

Whoops, sorry about that. :smoke: Looks like T-hawk understood what I said anyway. :)

There are some things about this I don't know: I don't know if civilization turn order matters here, and I also don't know if a noncombat unit, artillery-type unit, or ship can trigger this.

I will also have some more time to play Civ now. This is because the Red Sox LOST.

:cry: :aargh: :rant: :mad: :( :wallbash: :vomit:

Ahem. Back to moneymaking. :)
 
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