The 10 most spoken languages in the world

[Annex]

Belize is a English speaking country but spanish is still useful. And what does Catalonia have to do with Latin America?

The natives all speak English quite well and all of the signs are in English, but most of the time they speak Spanish to each other.

 

[Yui108]

where's cantonese? No way it isn't in the top ten

 

[Mad Man]

It's in the top 11

 

[Dachs]

I didn't know that there was a thing called "Spain" in the 12th Century and I've always thought that Portugal gained its independence in the 17th Century.

So they meant Castile.

 

[BirraImperial]

This list is BS, everybody knows Icelandic is in the top 10...

 

[scherbchen]

I have trouble believing more people speak German than French.

EDIT: particularly when it says "Standard German" and the figures include Swiss German.

presonally I blame the Academie Francaise. other than that you have to realize that France is a far less homogenous place than Germany is (even if you include Austria). if you go into other countries where French is spoken the question arises in how far it is French or a new independent variety based on French. I can not answer that, just putting it out there...

 

[scherbchen]

So they meant Castile.

can't we just open a thread that is a pledge to recognize the individuality and wonderfulness of Catalunia (maybe somebody can do an impersonation of Pepe Carvalho), sign it all and just be done with that same ol' song and dance? we'll even throw in a few words that recognize the speakers of Catalan in France just to make sure (nevermind that most of them believe that they are speaking a French dialect).

 

[Dachs]

can't we just open a thread that is a pledge to recognize the individuality and wonderfulness of Catalunia, sign it all and just be done with that same ol' song and dance? we'll even throw in a few words that recognize the speakers of Catalan in France just to make sure (nevermind that most of them believe that they are speaking a French dialect).

What the devil are you talking about? He was quibbling about the style of the Castilian monarch, which has absolutely nothing to do with Catalonia, which was in Aragon.

And I will not negotiate with terrorists.

 

[scherbchen]

What the devil are you talking about? He was quibbling about the style of the Castilian monarch, which has absolutely nothing to do with Catalonia, which was in Aragon.

come on... it was only a matter of time till it came up. preemptive pledging and all that.

 

[Masquerouge]

presonally I blame the Academie Francaise. other than that you have to realize that France is a far less homogenous place than Germany is (even if you include Austria). if you go into other countries where French is spoken the question arises in how far it is French or a new independent variety based on French. I can not answer that, just putting it out there...

A couple of things there.

First, the Academie Francaise, with all its flaws (I think I have a rant somewhere on this forum about it) has made sure that there was only one proper French. And what that means is that people who speak French can perfectly understand each other: Belgian, Swiss, Canadians, Algerian, Moroccoans, Tunisians, Senegalese, Ivory coasters (?!?)... even if they're not de jure under the French Academy rule, they de facto are.
The accents may vary, but the grammar and vocabulary, not so much.

Now if I look in Wikipedia, under Swiss German, here's what I can read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German

To most Germans the Swiss dialects are incomprehensible. There is hardly any example of dialects in the English language that might illustrate the situation. However, Swiss German speakers learn Swiss Standard German in school, and virtually all adults are able to speak Swiss Standard German. All conversations between native Swiss German speakers will be in Swiss German unless there are Germans or Austrians involved in the conversation, in which case the Swiss will usually switch to accommodate them.

So what I question, among other things, is that the numbers Godwynn quoted include Swiss German for Germany but exclude all French speakers not from France, which I find silly.

And it seems I'm taking this way seriously but the truth is, I love to argue and discuss this topic, even if in the end I'm all for everybody speaking English

 

[scherbchen]

First, the Academie Francaise, with all its flaws (I think I have a rant somewhere on this forum about it) has made sure that there was only one proper French.

and that is the beef I have with the AF. there is no "one proper French", the AF merely decided upon its conception to take a prescriptive approach rather than a descriptive approach (like the Real Academia in Spain did). So "proper French" is the French spoken in the Isle de France (please forgive spelling errors on that) and everybody else has to comply by it.

Now what is the end result? Spain has 3 1/2 languages now after at first going the prescriptive route, then hitting a bit of a bin when the Spanish Civil War ended, resulting in Castellano (Spanish), Basque and Catalan plus whatever the hell is being spoken in Valencia (nobody seems to be quite sure of that) plus a major part of the Americas. conquest and empire played a major rule in the latter, of course, but to its credit the RAE has never -afair- claimed that their view (again: prescriptive not descriptive) is the right way to go.

France, most likely as a result of the French Revolution, has ever since had a very centralistic point of view. it is now a place of more linguistic variety than the Iberian peninsula under Spanish rule and has always been. that is not a bad thing, it merely disputes the point of there being "one proper French".

truth be told I do not know how we Germans tackled the problem.

 

[Masquerouge]

and that is the beef I have with the AF. there is no "one proper French", the AF merely decided upon its conception to take a prescriptive approach rather than a descriptive approach (like the Real Academia in Spain did). So "proper French" is the French spoken in the Isle de France (please forgive spelling errors on that) and everybody else has to comply by it.

Yes. Remember also it was founded in the 17th century, when France was starting its love affair with centralization.

France, most likely as a result of the French Revolution, has ever since had a very centralistic point of view. it is now a place of more linguistic variety than the Iberian peninsula under Spanish rule and has always been. that is not a bad thing, it merely disputes the point of there being "one proper French".

Errr what? are you saying France has more languages than Spain?

 

[scherbchen]

Yes. Remember also it was founded in the 17th century, when France was starting its love affair with centralization.

precisely. it was kickstarted as a byproduct of the French Revolution, really, when there was a census on how many people in France could actually understand French (I believe the number was somewhere around 30%).

The roots of the Real Academia (or rather an establishing of a common standard) in Spain really go back to the conquest of Toledo and later the translation of Arabic texts into Spanish. it is all made easier by the Reconquista and the succeeding Repoblación.

Errr what? are you saying France has more languages than Spain?

absolutely. I am taking most of my views on this from our local elephant in the room Prof. Oesterreicher (I zone out a lot in his lectures because... well... so does he) but at least Wiki seems to think he has a point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_France#List_of_languages

now there are of course different approaches as to what reclassifies a dialect as a language but some of these seem to be undisputed (for the most part):

Basque
"French"
Catalan
(so far we are pretty much on par with Spain)
Alsatian (tricky)
all of the Occitan varieties (+1 for France)
and one I do not have a translation for (dying out anyways) Rätoromanisch.

disclaimer: this poster can not string a sentence together in French.

 

[Dachs]

Rätoromanisch.

Rhaetian, or Romansh?

 

[scherbchen]

Rhaetian, or Romansh?

apparently Rhaeto-Romanic is the correct terminology. might have figured that one out by myself....

 

[Masquerouge]

now there are of course different approaches as to what reclassifies a dialect as a language but some of these seem to be undisputed (for the most part):

Basque
"French"
Catalan
(so far we are pretty much on par with Spain)
Alsatian (tricky)
all of the Occitan varieties (+1 for France)
and one I do not have a translation for (dying out anyways) Rätoromanisch.

disclaimer: this poster can not string a sentence together in French.

Ok. You also forgot whatever they spoke at some point in Brittany, some sort of Celtic language.

But these are not mother tongues anymore. 95% of the speakers of such dialects learn it at school, not at home, and 95% of these guys are on some sort of revival root craze.
I've lived in Alsace, I've lived in Toulouse, I've lived in a lot of places where there is a theoretical dialect, but it's nothing more, just a theory.

I mean, people in Catalunya actively speak Catalan. When they work it's in Catalan, they have Catalan media, etc. There is nothing like that in France for any of the dialects. They're all dying out.

It's as if you were saying Latin is a spoken language in France. Yeah, some scholars speak it, and you'll have the random Latin newspaper somewhere, but that's not an accurate description of reality.

 

[scherbchen]

well, I disagree but I am not a French expert as I have stated and I believe at least to some extent that your views are somewhat influenced by a desire for a uniform France, no offense intended.

the one place where you, as a rule, do not learn non-standard varieties or dialects is at school. if you were to say university as part of a (voluntary at that) retro movement I would agree but school is really the one point where either the local variety/dialect takes over or the standard variety is imposed. the term 'mother-tongue' is actually quite acurate. children (up until a certain age) have an innate desire to sound like their mother (oddly enough even if the dad is around just as much, as I have noticed) or like other kids. last thing on their mind? reviving odd and old varieties and dialects.

as far as Latin goes: it has been spoken continously since before it had been fixated into Classical Latin (as written (!) by Caesar and Cato and the other fellas). it has merely evolved into the Romance Languages as we know them today. as far as linguistic continuity is concerned the Romance languages are a form of Latin. 'Classic' Latin, like the Latin you might know from school, has (some say) never beeen spoken. Vulgar Latin (as the Romance Linguists understand the term, this is not to be confused with "Latin Roman soldiers spoke around 100 AD", "Latin used by Merchants in Castrorum Regensum in 499 AD" or sermone vulgaris) is the root of the modern Romance Languages.

this (linguistic) term has a lot of problems. it has to encompass all of the dialectical features throughout the Roman reign (some odd hundreds of years) as well as the aftermath of it. Latin (Vulgar Latin) looked at this way has actually never been spoken by anyone, anywhere at any time. it is a construct.

it holds true, however, that France, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Romanic, etc are versions of Latin and that Latin has, indeed, survived until today.

 

[Elta]

Totally true. Now I'm gonna take a trip to Belize and will speak Spanish with the people there

Spanish is a required class from 6 to 12th grade in Belize Any educated person should understand you.


Also, if hindi and urudu count as one so should Spanish and Portuguese.

 

[Bast]

Ask any empire in history...



Mutually intelligible doesn't mean it's the same language. Spanish and Italian are mutually intelligible. Same goes for Bulgarian and Serbian. And many others...

I don't know about Bulgarian and Serbian but I'm pretty sure Spanish and Italian are NOT unless if they've learned a bit of both. If you said Spanish and Portuguese, okay I might let it pass.

But anyway, getting back to the point, I suppose I can see Hindi and Urdu as two separate languages. The arguments for that are there - different scripts and different vocabulary especially in formal language.

 

[BirraImperial]

I don't know about Bulgarian and Serbian but I'm pretty sure Spanish and Italian are NOT unless if they've learned a bit of both. If you said Spanish and Portuguese, okay I might let it pass.

But anyway, getting back to the point, I suppose I can see Hindi and Urdu as two separate languages. The arguments for that are there - different scripts and different vocabulary especially in formal language.

I do understand some Italian if spoken slowly. I can also understand written text in that language and I've never had any Italian lessons. Same happens when I'm reading some Dutch texts, I can understand some of it, because I speak a bit of German and the languages seem quite similar.