The 19th Century Europe Mod

Hopefully the units I sent you will prove to be useful.

So, what should this mod be named?
'Age of Ideologies' isn't that bad, but what about 'age of modernization', 'age of revolutions', or 'centuary of progress' ?

Feedback would be great, I look forward to this mod's progress.
 
How about Age of Industrialization? I would suggest Age of Imperialism, but it's not on a World Map.
 
Just a quick thought, actually, as I look over the tech tree...

Words like "Classical" or "Modern", or even "Advanced" have a definite timeline attached to them. I mean, when Adam Smith came along, it's not like someone proclaimed "we have officially found a man to champion classical economics!" Classical was offered in retrospect. Modern and Advanced are also two relative words, especially Modern since it's been used for the past 2000 years to describe "today".

Just nitpicking. For the sake of immersion, it's always healthy to give them a more immersive name.
 
@Leif & AlCosta
The name has changed a bunch. I'm currently using 'The Concert of Europe: Imperialism, Ideology, and Industry'... you both suggest good suggestions. Maybe I'll make a poll with possibilities later :lol:?

@dh_epic
Interesting point. The problem is that post things were named later, e.g. the Utilitarians didn't call themselves the Utilitarians and the Founding Fathers didn't call themselves the "Founding Fathers". The techs have to be called something, so I chose them what people today know and recognize.

Yes, Smith and Ricardo called their field "Political Economy" and not "Classical Economics," but the latter is the accepted term used by academia today (and even academia in the early 20th century, which the mod covers) to describe the methodology, ideas, and implications of Smith, Ricardo, et al. It's the name of a school of thought, rather than a time-relative description. Thus, I have used it.

"Modern Thought" refers to Modernism on the continuum of cultural movements. This isn't meant to be time-relative, this is just what academia calls the cultural movement beginning in the early 20th century. For the most part, modern :lol: culture, i.e. culture today, is postmodern (actually, the point you bring up regarding relativity and language is rather postmodern itself ;)). I want to include "Modernist Thought", because it's an improtant cultural advance, so I've called it what most people call the thought that developed in that era.

I used terms like "Adv. Steel Processes" and "Adv. Agricultural Processes" to be general about industrial advancement. For example, there were so many new improvements to making steel (Bessemer, Siemens, Martin, etc) that I chose to be general rather than focus on only one (all were important). Perhaps I should focus on only one invetion in naming these?

Thanks for the feedback :)
 
I totally understand. It's a difficult balancing act, for sure. You want to use terms that are both recognizable by the audience and technically true, as opposed to just making something up. But I think there CAN be a balance.

For example, instead of "Modern Diplomacy", you could have the very recognizable and descriptive field "International Relations", or many of the different diplomatic philosophies from isolationism to internationalism.

Or, instead of Advanced Mining Processes, you could have Deep Shaft Mining. Or instead of Advanced Agricultural Processes, you could have Four Field Crop Rotation, or Tractors, or whatever you envisioned.

And instead of Modern Thought, the artists and philosophers at the time simply called it "Avant-Garde".
 
dh_epic said:
I totally understand. It's a difficult balancing act, for sure. You want to use terms that are both recognizable by the audience and technically true, as opposed to just making something up. But I think there CAN be a balance.

For example, instead of "Modern Diplomacy", you could have the very recognizable and descriptive field "International Relations", or many of the different diplomatic philosophies from isolationism to internationalism.

Or, instead of Advanced Mining Processes, you could have Deep Shaft Mining. Or instead of Advanced Agricultural Processes, you could have Four Field Crop Rotation, or Tractors, or whatever you envisioned.

And instead of Modern Thought, the artists and philosophers at the time simply called it "Avant-Garde".

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for helping with ideas. At your suggestion, I'll change Modern Diplomacy to International Relations (sounds much better). I had origionally had Avant-Garde in the tech tree, but took it out because I had thought it not a movement itself, but rather a term for anything "cutting-edge". But, with your confirmation I'll replace Modern Thought with it.

As for the industrial advancement techs, I'll go with concrete names, as you suggest:
Adv. Agricultural Processes changed to Mechanical Reaper
Adv. Steel Processes changed to Bessemer Converter
Adv. Mining Processes changed to Open Pit Mining
Adv. Factory Processes changed to Scientific Management

:goodjob: Thanks for the ideas, dh_epic!

Leif said:

One man's junk, is another man's...
 
Just wondering, what that I've sent you do you think you'll use?
 
Leif said:
Just wondering, what that I've sent you do you think you'll use?

Most of the units you sent will be used for flavor units, e.g. France builds the Franco-prussian Rifleman instead of rifleman and the foreign legion unit instead of guards. I'm not sure if they'll be real UU's though (that's pretty hard to balance).

Thanks for compiling that list for me, it's been very helpful :goodjob:
 
Looking forward to the next developments with this mod :D
 
Indeed, I would like to know the affect of all of the civics though, and maybe the traits for the static leaderheads....

...or is that our job to think up?
 
Here's my to do list, more or less in the order of things I'm working on. I'm also waiting on two mods, TheLopez's dynamic resource mod, which I may implement here depending on what it does, and the technology commerce/yield modifiers mod that Impaler[WrG] is working on for me (so techs like Anthropology and Scientific Management do something).

1) Finish Buildings XML
2) Buildings Art Buttons (no 3d artwork yet)
3) Leaderheads
4) Leader traits
5) Finalize Unit Stats
6) Finalize Civics
7) Scenario
8) Unification Events (python)
9) Testing & Balancing & Revising
10) Release Beta
11) Testing & Balancing
12) Other Events (python)
13) Flavor Units
14) Improve Art work
15) Release v1.0

@Leif
I accidently deleted the excel file where I had all the civics effects listed out nice and pretty. I'll retype that up and post it today or tomorrow.


I haven't worked much on leaders & traits. I think there are two options:
1) Normal static leaderheads & traits as usual.
2) Flags as leaderheads. Could get someone to make one animation and just use different dds skins.

I like option 2 the best. As for traits, I haven't thought about them yet, so am open to any suggestions.

@Leche
Isn't that a little more Cold War that Crimean War?
 
IMO, the flag as leaderhead might be best, unless we can find all of our leaders from the same era and represent all wanted trait combinations well enough.

In short: Flags sound easy.
 
Potential leaderheads

Austria-Hungary Franz Ferdinand?
Belgium – Leopold I,
Denmark- Frederick VII, aggressive and financial
France- Napoleon the 1st or 3rd, Charismatic & Organized
Greece- George 1st of Greece, expansionist and Imperialist ?
Netherlands- William the 1st , organized and financial
Ottoman Empire- Abdülmecit, Protectionist and Organized
Portugal- Miguel, Creative and Imperialist?
Prussia- uhhh, Bismark?
Russia- Nicholas the 1st who fought against change, very conservative, Imperialist and Religious
Sardinia-Piedmont – I am clueless
Spain- King Ferdinand VII, Aggressive (regressive), and imperialist
Sweden- Oscar II, king of Sweden, peaceful and modern lord of Sweden, he was a poet, an arbitrator, and a writer. I think Org/cre, cre/cha, or cha/org would work
Two-Sicilies – Leonardo Loreando (EE3 guy) ….. Creative religious?
United Kingdom – Victoria? (after all, you are getting inspiration from a similar game)
German Minor States – is a barb?
Germany – Bismarck is an obvious choice for the era, so Expansive & Industrious
Italy - Victor Emmanuel II, unifier of Italy in 1861, Industrial (insisted on the modernization and industrialization of Italy), and expansive because Italy became one nation, larger than it ever had been.
 
@Leif
Great work! :goodjob: I'm thinking Victor Emmanuell II for Sardinia also. Bismarck for Prussia and Germany. German Minor States won't be barbarian, but I have no idea for a leader for them. The traits will probably be different, as I'd like to come up with new ones.

@All
This will not be for Warlords. It'll be for regular Civ 4.

Also, instead of Arne's map, I decided to use a European map I made a while ago and never have posted or used. It's 80*104, so gameplay may be a little slower, but I think it's better this way. The preview of the new map has replaced the preview of the old one on the screenshots section of the first post.
 
First off, I would like to say this is a really great set of ideas coming together here, and I'm excited about this mod.

For the minor German States, I have a few suggestions for their leader.

I was thinking that maybe King Maximilian II of Bavaria (r. 1848-1864) would be a good choice. He was a well-educated monarch who opposed the Frankfurt Assembly. At first there was some possibility of his regime being a liberal one, but eventually it descended into absolutism. Most importantly, he organized and led a union of the minor German states to maintain a balance of power between Prussia and Austria. He sorta fits the bill of a minor German States leader in that sense.

Another option is Heinrich von Gagern, President of the Frankfurt Assembly from May 19 to December 16 1948. He was a liberal statesman who argued in favor of German unification. Of course, he didn't really do much and didn't stay in power for long, not that the Frankfurt Assembly really had much power to begin with.
 
@Sohan
Thanks for the input... Maximilian II sounds like the best choice for German Minor States.


@Leif
Here's the very rough list of Civics effects. (L) means low upkeep, (M) is medium and (H) high. The effects will most certainly need to be balanced...

.........................................................

GOVERNMENT

Absolute Monarchy (L) +1 happy per state ideology, Ruler sets ideology

Constitutional Monarchy (M) +1 happy per non-state ideology, +50% war weariness, Elections set ideology

Democracy (H) +100% improvement growth rate, +100% war weariness, +1 happy per non-state ideology, Elections set ideology

Military Junta (H), +1 happy from military units, +2 experience in state ideology cities, Ruler sets ideology

Proletarian Dictatorship (H) +2 happy per ideology, -1 happy per non-state ideology, Ideology forced to communist

ECONOMIC POLICY

Mercantilism (M) No foreign trade routes, +50% capital tax rate

Laissez-Faire (L) +2 commerce from town, +1 trade route/city

State Regulation (M) +50% worker rate, +1 free specialist, Can gold rush

Planned Economy (H) +2 hammers from town, Can gold rush

Mobilization (H) +50% military production, Food produces military units

NATIONAL VALUE

Social Order (M) +1 happy from courthouse, +1 happy from police station

Individual Liberty (L) +100% great people rate, +1 gold/military unit

Social Equality (H) No unhealthiness from population

Nationalism (M) Draft more units/turn, +25% military production in state ideology cities

Imperialism (H) No distance maintenance

POLITICAL CLIMATE

Rule by Decree (L) Pop rushing, +1 happy from palace

Political Fanaticism (H) No non-state ideology spread, +50% state ideology great people rate rate

Machine Politics (L) +3 gold from specialists, Can gold rush

Populism (H) No # of cities maintenance

Utopianism (H) +50% building rate in state ideology cities

CULTURAL POLICY

Religious Supremacy (L) ???

Romanticism (L) +25% culture rate, +3 culture from specialists

Secularism (M) +10% tax rate, +10% science rate

Jingoism (H) -100% war weariness

State Atheism (M) +20% science rate, -50% culture rate
 
"State Atheism (M) +20% science rate, -50% culture rate"
I'd give it maybe a minus to happy due to the state refusal of religion, but -50 culture would mean that an atheist civ would lose cities because they weren't religious, I think maybe +20 science -20 culture would even be more apprioate.
 
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