[RD] The Alt-Right and White Supremacism (from Clown Car II)

[Senethro]

Why is that? It doesn't seem unreasonable. To think that white genocide is actually taking place requires a conspiracy theory that is covering it up. So it is certainly way out there in terms of positions held.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I think it seems unreasonable. Kind of like a blanket statement that it's not possible to be concered about declining whale populations without also advocating for whale supremacy, or that it's not possible to support Black Lives Matter without also advocating for the murder of police officers.

It's a closed-minded and absolute statement and I'm not sure why anyone would feel comfortable making such a statement.

 

[Ryika]

Why is that? It doesn't seem unreasonable. To think that white genocide is actually taking place requires a conspiracy theory that is covering it up. So it is certainly way out there in terms of positions held.

How does for example a schizophrenic person who does not believe that white people are superior, but has watched the wrong youtube channels and now believes that white people are the victims of systematic genocide fit into that theory?

 

[Lexicus]

it's not possible to be concered about declining whale populations without also advocating for whale supremacy,

This is such a horrible analogy it's hilarious. Literally, the only people who care about 'declining white populations' are white supremacists. Full stop, no debate.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is such a horrible analogy it's hilarious. Literally, the only people who care about 'declining white populations' are white supremacists. Full stop, no debate.

Depends on how 'white' is framed. Some countries have a serious birth rate issue. Moreover, would caring about a 'declining black population' be about 'black supremacy' by default?
I think there is a grave and quite time-bomb like issue re polarization in the US.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

This is such a horrible analogy it's hilarious. Literally, the only people who care about 'declining white populations' are white supremacists. Full stop, no debate.

It's the "full stop, no debate" thing that I'm talking about. It doesn't really matter what analogy I make if that's the attitude does it?

Do you disagree with me categorising "full stop, no debate" as a "closed-minded and absolute statement"?

 

[Lexicus]

Do you disagree with me categorising "full stop, no debate" as a "closed-minded and absolute statement"?

Not really, I just don't care. I see no more need to be "open-minded" on that question than about 2+2=4. If you're concerned about white genocide, check yourself because you're definitely a white supremacist.

 

[Ryika]

This is such a horrible analogy it's hilarious. Literally, the only people who care about 'declining white populations' are white supremacists. Full stop, no debate.

Not really, I just don't care. I see no more need to be "open-minded" on that question than about 2+2=4. If you're concerned about white genocide, check yourself because you're definitely a white supremacist.

Are you saying "declining white populations" and "white genocide" are the same, or why do you move back and forth between them as if they are?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Not really, I just don't care. I see no more need to be "open-minded" on that question than about 2+2=4. If you're concerned about white genocide, check yourself because you're definitely a white supremacist.

An absolutely perfect example of the attitude I'm talking about and why I don't like it. As I say, I can't understand how anyone is comfortable to display this kind of attitude or reasoning, let alone wear it as a badge of honour.

 

[Ryika]

It's because the people he surrounds himself with are fine with bigotry, as long as it's against people who are on the other side of the political spectrum.

 

[Lexicus]

Are you saying "declining white populations" and "white genocide" are the same, or why do you move back and forth between them as if they are?

The term 'white genocide' was coined by white supremacists to refer to the notion of 'declining white populations,' yes.

An absolutely perfect example of the attitude I'm talking about and why I don't like it. As I say, I can't understand how anyone is comfortable to display this kind of attitude or reasoning, let alone wear it as a badge of honour.

Well, right back at ya, patnah.

 

[Ryika]

The term 'white genocide' was coined by white supremacists to refer to the notion of 'declining white populations,' yes.

Then you agree with the Alt Right that white genocide is happening? And Traitorfish is wrong when he says:

Nobody expect white supremacists believes that white people are under thread of genocide.

?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Ultimately it's just poor reasoning. The fact is that there's simply no direct logical link between "a concern about the declining population of the group that you belong to" and "a belief that the group that you belong to is the best thing ever and that all other groups are inferior (and should probably be subjugated)". The latter does not logically follow from the former, nor is it a necessary requirement for the former.

So it's simply not reasonable to make a bald statement that holding the first opinion MUST mean that you hold the second opinion, not just in the case of a specific individual, but as a universal rule. To decree that the first opinion simply cannot exist without the second is just not rational. It's the rhetoric of someone who is not willing to entertain opposing ideas. Getting all hysterical about it when challenged doesn't really do much to dispel the aura of irrationality either.

It simply just is closed-minded and absolutist. The universe simply cannot exist without God as creator. In fact it's even worse than that, it's stating that it's not even possible to hold the opinion that the universe can exist withoug God as creator. Full stop, no debate.

I don't want to be that guy. But trying to reason with that guy is pointless, because he's that guy.

 

[Lexicus]

Then you agree with the Alt Right that white genocide is happening? And Traitorfish is wrong when he says:

There is a reason I said "the notion of" and then put "declining white populations" in scare quotes.

Ultimately it's just poor reasoning. The fact is that there's simply no direct logical link between "a concern about the declining population of the group that you belong to" and "a belief that the group that you belong to is the best thing ever and that all other groups are inferior (and should probably be subjugated)". The latter does not logically follow from the former, nor is it a necessary requirement for the former.

So it's simply not reasonable to make a bald statement that holding the first opinion MUST mean that you hold the second opinion, not just in the case of a specific individual, but as a universal rule. To decree that the first opinion simply cannot exist without the second is just not rational. Getting all hysterical about it when challenged doesn't really do much to dispel the aura of irrationality either.

It simply just is closed-minded and absolutist. The universe simply cannot exist without God as creator. In fact it's even worse than that, it's stating that it's not even possible to hold the opinion that the universe can exist withoug God as creator. Full stop, no debate.

I don't want to be that guy. But trying to reason with that guy is pointless, because he's that guy.

What a long-winded way to say "I know nothing about internet Nazis and have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion."

 

[Manfred Belheim]

What a long-winded way to say "I know nothing about internet Nazis and have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion."

You should write a book entitled "How to Consistently Misrepresent What People Say in 10 Easy Steps"

Also.... discussion?! From the same person who just said "full stop, no debate"? What "discussion" are you referring to here? The one that you've already stated that you're completely unwilling to have? Or some other "discussion" which only involves people you already agree with?

 

[Ryika]

So I have grown up around Turks, Muslims and Eastern Europeans. Have always gotten along with them pretty well, never felt like they're inferior people to me. I think they as people and their cultures are part of today's Germany, and that whining about how Germany has changed from what it was before the events of the two world wars that uhh... happened... is meaningless.

Yet, if I got news tomorrow that White Germans are becoming a minority in 10 years, I would probably still care about that. Not for any good reason that I could pin down, but I do dislike the sound of the idea.

Am I a white supremacist?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Am I a white supremacist?

Yes and an internet Nazi. Full stop, no debate. That thought process does not exist outside of the mind of a white supremacist.

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: If all this thread is going to be is the usual suspects circling each other like sharks in a pool, it will be closed. You know who you are.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I consider myself more of a remora.

Moderator Action: PDMA in any form is not allowed around here, if you wish to comment on a moderator action, please contact the respective moderator through a private conversation. - ori
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Lexicus]

Just going to use this thread post material and stories on the alt-right, to remind everyone what a nice bunch of people they are.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch...arged-killing-father-over-conspiracy-theories

Saw this horrific tale last week. 33-year-old living with his parents (absolutely no judgment on that) has a fit of paranoid rage and brutally stabs his own father, killing him.