The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

[Dionysius]

this is getting confusing. i think i`ll move to a different thread.

and; to clarify, Mesoptamia is the entire Euphrates/Tigris valley.
meso=middle/between
Potamos=river ---[hippopotamus-->river horse]

 

[Gladi]

I never mentioned Akkad.

You mentioned Mesopotamia. Akkad and Sumer were for thousand years ruled by same king from Babylon in area known to Greeks as Between-rivers. Thus dividing area into Mespotamia and Sumer would be wrong, dividing it into Akkad (Babylonia) and Sumer not, the rulers there did so themselves!

Now Egypt and Nubia have some common history, but they have even more of distinct history in Kerma and Kush. Futher there is solid evidence of distinct cultures, though kemetic culture did spread down the Nile, it never completely replaced native cultures.

 

[Gladi]

this is getting confusing. i think i`ll move to a different thread.

And the thread is getting way too big. Cannot this MOD get its own subforum too?

 

[Dionysius]

And the thread is getting way too big. Cannot this MOD get its own subforum too?

too true. 2344 posts! [including this, to date].

 

[Mayan Raptor]

Now Egypt and Nubia have some common history, but they have even more of distinct history in Kerma and Kush.

I never denied that the people of the Nile Valley formed distinct cultures. I simply protested the inconsistency in lumping some cultures in the Nile Valley into "Nubia" while keeping one Nilotic culture, that of Kemet, separate, even though Kemet was no less related to the cultures in so-called "Nubia" than these "Nubians" were to each other.

All the Nile Valley polities, though distinct and sometimes competitive with each other, had close cultural relationships, as we would expect from people sharing the same river valley.

 

[Gladi]

I never denied that the people of the Nile Valley formed distinct cultures. I simply protested the inconsistency in lumping some cultures in the Nile Valley into "Nubia" while keeping one Nilotic culture, that of Kemet, separate, even though Kemet was no less related to the cultures in so-called "Nubia" than these "Nubians" were to each other.

All the Nile Valley polities, though distinct and sometimes competitive with each other, had close cultural relationships, as we would expect from people sharing the same river valley.

So if "Nubia" was renamed Kerma or Kush, you would be satisfied? And btw, they are not Nilotic but Afro-Asiatic by Greenberg .

 

[Mayan Raptor]

So if "Nubia" was renamed Kerma or Kush, you would be satisfied? And btw, they are not Nilotic but Afro-Asiatic by Greenberg .

I would.

IIRC, "Nilotic" is simply a geographic adjective referring to the natives of the Nile Valley. "Afro-Asiatic" refers to language.

 

[Ankenaton]

I would.

IIRC, "Nilotic" is simply a geographic adjective referring to the natives of the Nile Valley. "Afro-Asiatic" refers to language.

Hello Mayan Raptor
Back in TAM III there were many other players (Pi-Ankhi comes to mind) whose Civs of interest were Khemet (Egypt) and Kush/Meroe (Nubia); with the compromise being that they remain separate. As an old time player and contributer in TAM III; and as a player and even rarer contributer to TAM IV, I would say that I would prefer that the two CIVs remain separate for playability issues. That all of the Nile Valley cultures were closely linked and constantly intermingling, trading and dominating one another throughout time is without question. I just think that keeping them separate adds to the gameplay. Thamis has indicated that a larger map is in the works by BenGee (an excellent map-maker) and Nubia hopefully will be part of the main map. I do think there should be a name change from Nubia to Kush to be more reflective of one of the kingsdoms of the Nile. Lastly, as I understand it the current leaderheads are placeholders until more accurate portraits can be inserted, as other modding issues were taken care of first. The Iman picture would be a great model IMHO, or the Nefertari bust; and I would support a change over to that if possible. Thanks for the post.

 

[lifeaquatic]

Hey, I'm glad to hear that. Have you checked out Dale's Age of Discoveries mod?

And yes, WWII is way overrated as a historical period...

Ya i tried his beta 3 but its too far from being complete and theres very little actuall mod elements in it. I wanted to see more scripts allowing some kind of goods and treasure transporting to get the colonial empire feel but any suggestions that he doesn't already have in mind hes quite dismissive about. Frankly his scenario is balanced poorly and not very enjoyable.

 

[thamis]

I have no idea why you have divided the various Nilotic polities into two distinct powers called "Egypt" and "Nubia". The so-called "Nubians" actually consisted of various cultures which differed as much from each other as any of them did to Kemet. I find doing so analogous to dividing the ancient Iraqi city-states into "Mesopotamia" and "Sumer". Historically speaking, I would consider it more sensible (certainly more consistent) to either lump ALL of the Nilotic powers (Kemet included) into one collective "Nile Valley" civilization or to replace the generic "Nubia" with one of Kemet's southern siblings (Kush, Meroe, take your pick).

I can imagine that you'll get some flame from Ankhenaton for that, hehe.

Egypt and Nubia fought wars that lasted centuries. If you read historical sources of the time (such as Herodotus), they make a clear distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. It is very sensible to divide them up. More sensible actually than making Gaul, Britons, and Iberia different nations, as they were all Celtic.

Regarding the leaderheads: They're not final. For now, they're placeholders, as those images were really easy to get to. The idea is to get original images of the leaders, such as a mural or statue of Hatshepsut, or a relief of Hammurabi. We'll fix all the leaders up before version 2.0.

 

[thamis]

Ya i tried his beta 3 but its too far from being complete and theres very little actuall mod elements in it. I wanted to see more scripts allowing some kind of goods and treasure transporting to get the colonial empire feel but any suggestions that he doesn't already have in mind hes quite dismissive about. Frankly his scenario is balanced poorly and not very enjoyable.

Well... the Age of Discoveries are my other great interest, so, at some point in the future, I might pick it up and continue Dale's mod if he doesn't mind.

With Warlords this should be easier, as there will be treasures in there.

 

[thamis]

Hello Mayan Raptor
Back in TAM III there were many other players (Pi-Ankhi comes to mind) whose Civs of interest were Khemet (Egypt) and Kush/Meroe (Nubia); with the compromise being that they remain separate. As an old time player and contributer in TAM III; and as a player and even rarer contributer to TAM IV, I would say that I would prefer that the two CIVs remain separate for playability issues. That all of the Nile Valley cultures were closely linked and constantly intermingling, trading and dominating one another throughout time is without question. I just think that keeping them separate adds to the gameplay. Thamis has indicated that a larger map is in the works by BenGee (an excellent map-maker) and Nubia hopefully will be part of the main map. I do think there should be a name change from Nubia to Kush to be more reflective of one of the kingsdoms of the Nile. Lastly, as I understand it the current leaderheads are placeholders until more accurate portraits can be inserted, as other modding issues were taken care of first. The Iman picture would be a great model IMHO, or the Nefertari bust; and I would support a change over to that if possible. Thanks for the post.

In the first versions of TAM3, I actually named the Nubians "Kush". For some reason lots of people protested that, and I renamed them to Nubians...

 

[Sword Dancer]

This is *just* a suggestion, and it may have been addressed before, but I can't flip through 118 pages of posts to find it...

One thing that irks me is that the Roman Legion, while it's great, can build forts and roads, and has the Commando trait, upgrades into the Swordsman (IIRC), which means that it loses all these traits. I'd like to suggest that there be 2 flavours of Legion -- the Republican Legion, using the same values and traits of the current unit, and the Imperial Legion, which has a combat value equal to the swordsman, and maintains the traits of the Republican Legion.

Just my $0.02 CAD, your actual value may vary based on where you live.

 

[Sword Dancer]

Well... the Age of Discoveries are my other great interest, so, at some point in the future, I might pick it up and continue Dale's mod if he doesn't mind.

With Warlords this should be easier, as there will be treasures in there.

I wish I had any sort of skill with modding -- I'd love to see a 7 Kingdoms scenario in ancient China....

 

[thamis]

I wish I had any sort of skill with modding -- I'd love to see a 7 Kingdoms scenario in ancient China....

That one is coming in Warlords, and it's actually made to a great extent by community modders who are involved in the internal Firaxis forums. Thank Nolan for that scenario, she did most of the work.

 

[Shqype]

This is *just* a suggestion, and it may have been addressed before, but I can't flip through 118 pages of posts to find it...

One thing that irks me is that the Roman Legion, while it's great, can build forts and roads, and has the Commando trait, upgrades into the Swordsman (IIRC), which means that it loses all these traits. I'd like to suggest that there be 2 flavours of Legion -- the Republican Legion, using the same values and traits of the current unit, and the Imperial Legion, which has a combat value equal to the swordsman, and maintains the traits of the Republican Legion.

Just my $0.02 CAD, your actual value may vary based on where you live.

Yes, the Romans should have the option to continue building their legions or the upgraded version.

 

[Ankenaton]

I can imagine that you'll get some flame from Ankhenaton for that, hehe.

Egypt and Nubia fought wars that lasted centuries. If you read historical sources of the time (such as Herodotus), they make a clear distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. It is very sensible to divide them up. More sensible actually than making Gaul, Britons, and Iberia different nations, as they were all Celtic.

Regarding the leaderheads: They're not final. For now, they're placeholders, as those images were really easy to get to. The idea is to get original images of the leaders, such as a mural or statue of Hatshepsut, or a relief of Hammurabi. We'll fix all the leaders up before version 2.0.

"You wanna be startin somethin', gots to be startin somethin', yeah, yeah". I hear what he is saying and agree with him almost to the hilt. Again I prefer a bigger map (that you guys are working on - BenGee) where we can have both of them on the main map (including Sheba; Persia; Medea etc.). I think he was objecting to the separation between them and the abscence of the Nubians on the main map. Where is Pi-Ankhi when you need him!

 

[Shqype]

"You wanna be startin somethin', gots to be startin somethin', yeah, yeah". I hear what he is saying and agree with him almost to the hilt. Again I prefer a bigger map (that you guys are working on - BenGee) where we can have both of them on the main map (including Sheba; Persia; Medea etc.). I think he was objecting to the separation between them and the abscence of the Nubians on the main map. Where is Pi-Ankhi when you need him!

The bigger map is coming in the next release, by 2.0 the latest, so it shall be here soon

 

[Gladi]

Will Vulture Stele and Triumphal Arc make wonder cut once Warlords are released?

 

[Dedelph]

TAM is a great Mod and I am playing it since its early releases under Civ III but I have some problems with the Civ IV sequels.

V 1.8 stays playable despite the fact that I am unable (too silly? ) to get missionnaries
V 1.9 has become unplayable most of the text disppeared from the starting menus (world size, name of the civs and leaders...) and several informations have been deleted in other screens (name of the researched technologies, duration of research, statistics of units and many more)

I am playing the french version with patch v 1.61 random map. I don't know how to capture screenshots of the menus.

I have deleted the ancient version before installing. Am I the only one with this problems? What did I wrong?