The AoM Travel Guide

[Dom Pedro II]

@Dom Pedro
That's cool. I was just throwing ideas your way.

Cool. Okay... what I really need is some other ancient techs. Maybe not only Jewish techs, but maybe some secular/scientific developments made by the ancient Hebrews or Jewish communities of the diaspora as well..


I think I'll call the Israeli agricultural tech Technohorticulture... and you remember what Dorothy Parker said about that..... You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well, during World War One alot of those nightmare weapons were used, like Mustard Gas. Realistically, those weapons ceased being used by civilized nations after world war one because all the nations agreed not to use them.

Also, you should consider multiple advancement paths for different civs to take. Each path would influence how that civ developed threw the ages,
for example, if an Aztek player decides to take the Peaceful Path, his or her civ would develop into a scientific and cultural nation rather than a Warrior Nation. I've always thought that was a neat idea.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Well, during World War One alot of those nightmare weapons were used, like Mustard Gas. Realistically, those weapons ceased being used by civilized nations after world war one because all the nations agreed not to use them.

Also, you should consider multiple advancement paths for different civs to take. Each path would influence how that civ developed threw the ages,
for example, if an Aztek player decides to take the Peaceful Path, his or her civ would develop into a scientific and cultural nation rather than a Warrior Nation. I've always thought that was a neat idea.

A neat idea that isn't possible in Civ... I wish you could make it so that once you start down one research path you can't go back to another, but such is not the case. Trust me... I thought about that too...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

JUMPIN' JEHOSAVET!


I've got it! I know how I can make one tech tree cancel the other!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Okay... here's what you do... Note: this will only work for human players. You'll have to use flavors to keep the AI from doing this or they'll be in big trouble...

Make two techs... let's say Peace and War. Then you make all of your following techs stemming from each of them.

For Peace let's say: Peace ---> Free Artistry ----> Free Love ----> Environmentalism

For War let's say: War ----> War Mobilization ----> Big Friggin' Tanks -----> Nukes

Now... here's the trick... first of all, you can make two governments... one is Democracy, the other is Fascism... make all of the Peace buildings require Democracy. Make all of the War buildings require Fascism...

Now... here's the juicy part... set all of the city improvements under Peace to become obsolete with War. And set all of the War improvements to become obsolete with Peace.

SOOO.... you HAVE to choose one tech line. Once you start down one path, you can't go back, or you'll completely eliminate the usefulness of all of your city improvements... so there's no incentive for the human player to research both lines and thus have kick-ass infrastructure and an uber-strong military...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

And this would work for the AI? You are a genius methinks.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

No, it won't work for the AI... but with Flavors, you can prevent the AI from screwing itself and researching both. Basically, you'll have to decide... like with the Aztecs for example that they are war-mongering. So any time you play against the Aztecs, they'll be war-mongering. But when you play AS the Aztecs, you'll be able to make choices.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Peaceful, philocofical Azteks...

 

[waTTe]

DomPedro II wrote in another thread:

Say, waTTe, you seem to know a bit about Africa.... do you have any suggestions of technologies for the Bantu in my mod?

Well my knowledge on Africa or the Bantu people is rather limited, but I`ll try my best, and hope that something might be helpfull. If not please don´t beat me

This is what we have till now?

As for the Zulu... I have Oral Tradition (no smart aleck remarks), Shamanism, Herbal Remedy, Weaving, Sheparding, Bead Jewelry. While none of these things are exclusively Zulu, they are characteristic of them and not really needed by any of the others! And if we expand to Bantu, we can throw Zimbabwes into the mix (a zimbabwe is a stone enclosure).

Umtshiza (stick fighting used for fun and training)
Rites of Passage
Beadwork
Goat Herding
Basket Weaving
Zimbabwes

1.) I once read something about the early Bantu.migrations in the eastern african coastal areas were helped? (apologizes for my horrible english ) by the import of originally asian eatable plants/fruits, like the banana and coconut?!
Really cant remember were I found this but if its true maybe we can get some agricultural advancement with new (fruit-)resources showing up from it.

2.) Generally arabian and asian influence seems to be important foremost in the fileds of pottery and sculpture. ... Well I cant get something from this that would be "unique" maybe someone else ...

3.) Maybe high importance should be given to iron-working. As far as I know, there are two theories, one believing the bantu got the technique from the middle east, the other - thinking of an african independent development - says they adopted the technique while their migrations in the great lake aerea. No matter which one is true they where one of the first people in (sub-sahara)afrika that had iron-working, giving them much superiority.

4.) Adding Zimbabwe (is it true that it means something like "sacred house"?) cultural elements would be great, you only need to find one you REALLY has knowledge of that culture - I don´t , same for Kuba (Zaire-Bantu) kingdom, or the trader-society? of Mapungubwe, the Luba states and many others ... Arent there any bantu-people in this forum?

5.) Cattle, cattle, cattle and some cattle.
It was/is of greatest improtance for the Bantu (Nguni/Zulu) people. The Zulu for example are said to have/had? more words for cattle but anything else - more than 100 words only for all different sorts of cattle. So it is possible to let them profit more from that ressource than others? or to give them a unique cattle-ressource? Maybe it could also be a happiness-providing luxury for them, because wealth was counted in cattle.

6.) Maybe we can get something from the Massai? I think they had some ritual for boys becoming me/warriors: the lion-hunt. Not shure what to develope from this . maybe the possibility to build barracs after inventing the tech- so leading to veteran troops in a unique way by ritual/cultural achievements?

7.) I dont know anything about it, but hte Zulu must have had some higher form of ceremonial burial, cause the burial places of the Zulu-kings are often mentioned - for example when the boers were granted a large amount of zulu-territory around 1885? which included these places with brought much worry.
-> small cultural wonder or something like that?

8.) Religion: To make it short the Zulu believed in a god called Nkulunkulu and a whole bunch of spirits. They had a great fear of witches (male and female) and there were specialised witch-hunter-magicans. Not only health reasons but also religious demanded to stay clean as possible. It was a horror to be spilled with blood or also ones properties. There are plenty stories of Shaka washing in public in front of his people.
Again im helpless here, maybe someone else has ideas ....

9.) Military Organisation
The impi here in this game forum is a unit, for the Zulu it was a word for a group of soldiers. That could mean some dozens of warriors, one or more regiments (often it is indeed used for regiment) or what we would call an army or an army-group. The Zulu had some understanding of divisions too, for example the Zulu-regiments o umKhulutshane, umHaye and uKhokhothi formed the imVokwe divison, others were the Izim-Pohlo or the uBelebele divisions
So maybe giving the Zulu an opportunity to build armies from impis would be alright.
Or maybe you can get something from the inkatha organisation, that word (now used for a political zulu-party) meant originally something like "being bound together" (like fasces), describing an age-group, which were formed from both : male and female. The male became regiments the female working groups and the instrument for "state marriages" (sorry again - I hate my english too ), when whole regiments were granted the right to marry.
The impi didnt stay the same - in Shaka times only the iklwa was allowed (and sometines the iwisa as aditional weapon), a warrior who lost it, was sentenced to death. later the impis carried again two throwing spears, and dropped those large (mycenean looking) shields for smaller ones ´cause they learned they wont help against bullets and were only needed for the infight.
Another thing is the udibi organisation, that were boys, carrying the staff of the warriors, aditional cattle-skins? for shieelds, water and so on, and also had the duty of embollowing? (cant remember the right word?) the dead and deadly wounded soldiers.

9.a) weaponry:
First the iklwa or ixlwa of course, I have in mind something colourfull I read, that the words origin is the sound of the weapon entering or leaving a body , really not shure if this is a myth
Second there are the shields, the zulu developed many types of it. Due to what was needed - Big, bigger and then smaller again. The regiments were foremost distinguished by its shield, so you could give the Zulu something like early regimental colour?!
Next the wooden club, the kerrie or iwisa in Kwazulu. Its common with all Bantu I belive and was made from iron-wood? aka the hardest wood available.
Axes were not that common, but still in use and there were some legendary ones.

10.) Regimental and others fashions of the Zulu are well reported - maybe one could develope something from that - Fashion as a unique tech

Conclusion: When I read over what I wrote again, I have to apologize again, I cant help much. Maybe it would be the best to skip the bantu idea an stay with the zulu and give them really agressive and militaristic characteristics and some brutal methods of rule, somehow like you´´ll do for the Aztecs if I got you right. If you decide on this, I would offer some assistance.

Lets hear Shaka on this:

"It is merely a queation of establishing guilt, no matter how trivial the offence may seem. The punishment is death!"

And Cetshwayo:

"Why does the Governpr of Natal speaking to me about my lwas? Do I go to Natal and dictate to him about his laws? [...] My people will not listen unless they are killed, and while wishing to be friends with the English, I do not agree to give my people over to be governed by laws sent to me by them."

Last:

I dont know if there is a better great leader list for the Zulu, but that of Civ is poor.

How about some from this list:

Military:

Shaka - of course I dont care if he´s already king
(Senzangakona) Shakas father - not really a great leader though
Dingishwayo - Chief o Mtetwas - sort of Stepfather to shaka
(Matiwane) Warrior-Chief of the Ngwane
(Zwide) - Chief of Ndwandwes, early major opponent of Shaka
Mdlaka - Famous General of Shaka
Mgobozi - Famous Warrior and Shakas most trusted General
Mzilikazi - Famous General of Shaka - "Founder" of the Ndebele (Matabele)
Msheshwe - "Founder" of Basutos
Nqoboka - General of Shaka
Nzobo - General of Shaka
Mhlangana - Brother of Shaka - Lost Civil-war against Dingane
Soshange - Ndwandwe General - Founder of Shangana Empire
(Sikunyana) - Ndwandwe/Swazi-Leader
Zwangendaba - General - Founder of the Angoni Kingdoms
Dingane - Zulu King
Cetshwayo - Zulu King
Umbulazi - Cetshwayos brother and rival
Sirayo - Zulu Chief and General
Umbilini - Swazi General in Zulu-Service
Usibebu - famous Zulu General
Uhamu - Zulu Chief and General
Dinuzulu - Zulu King
Siganada Cube - Maybe personal Udibi of Shaka - Leader of last Zulu-Revolt

Scientific:

Nobela - a woman isangoma - means: witch-finder/hunter
Ngomane - "Prime Minister" of Shaka
Mbozamboza - "Embassador to King George V."
Mbopa - "Majordomus" and sorcerer/witch-finder of Shaka
Mpande - Zulu King
Mapita - "Prime Minister" of Cetshwayo
Undabuko - Brother of Cetshwayo

Those in () brackets? are possibly not the best choices and only for those who like large lists - they are mostly in LOSE chronological order

Wow finsihed with a horrible long post - will someone read it?

 

[NateDawgNY]

Cool. Okay... what I really need is some other ancient techs. Maybe not only Jewish techs, but maybe some secular/scientific developments made by the ancient Hebrews or Jewish communities of the diaspora as well..


I think I'll call the Israeli agricultural tech Technohorticulture... and you remember what Dorothy Parker said about that..... You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think

Man, you just gotta make this difficult don't ya.

Okay some ideas here:
King David was successful both in uniting the 13 tribes, and waging war on his enemies.
-Nothing specific, but maybe you can brainstorm here
The reign of Solomon was considered the "Golden Age" of Israel, and prosperity was at an all time high.
-It was during this period that copper mining and metal smelting were introduced to Israel. Trade was also very important to the prosperity of the country.
The Beit Din
-Essentially functioned as a court, but handled religious matters as well as secular ones
The Sanhedrin
-Equivalant to our Supreme court. Was re-instituted by Napoleon for a brief period.
The Talmud
-Composed of the Mishana and Gemara, it is known as the Oral Torah. Compiled by Rabbis of the Hillel school of thought, it is considered to be the single greatest work to come out of the Diaspora.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

MWA HA HA HA!!! It's all coming together!!!

Thank you to NateDawg and to waTTe! All of this info will be very useful!

waTTe: I'd planned to make a Kraal city improvement for the Zulu that would require Cattle.

If you think it'd be better to go with the Zulu... but my thinking was that the Bantu would encompass the Zulu, and by not being so specific would give me the chance to include more things.

You did great. There's a lot of good material here. Thanks

NateDawg: I'll definitely have to include the Talmud.

Lots of good fodder for ideas here.

 

[waTTe]

@Dom Pedro

I´m glad if something of this is useful to you. If you want some details or have some specific ideas and need some reflections I will also be glad to provide you with.

For now: Good luck with your scenario again!

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Thank you again.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Of the most unique tribes in Africa, theres the Zulu/Bantu, the Ethiopians/Abyssians and the Nubians. All three of those are in my mod. But don't you go stealing any of my ideas DPII....

 

[Dom Pedro II]

You have ideas?

Are you including unique techs?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

No unique techs in mine, yours is better than mine from what I've read.

The Nubians were/are an interesting group. They started out like any other African Tribe, but exposure to the Ancient Egyptians set them apart. They had their own Pyramids, their own Pharoahs(a few of which ruled both Kingdoms), and their own mercanary army which Egypt used to suppliment their own troops(Medjay). Plus most of Ancient Egypt's gold came from Nubia...

Later, after Rome conquered Egypt, the Nubians viewed themselves as the sole keepers of the Ancient Egyptian culture and religion, until 200 AD or so, when they converted en masse to Christianity. They managed to prevent the Muslims from the East from conquering them because of their skilled archers, until 1400-1500(not sure) when they fell. Ever since then Nubia(now Sudan) has been ruled by Arabs.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Yes... I do know a bit about the Nubians.

And indeed, those Christians are now being massacred in Sudan IIRC.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I know.... Its off-topic, but I think that Sudan is a more appropriate War on Terror target than Iraq was(They have Al-Quida camps in the country)...

The Nubians could be considered the last remnant of Ancient Egypt. If you want more than 2 African civs, Nubia is an excelllent choice.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Yeah... I mean, I would, but unfortunately, any new civ means some other civ has got to go.

My thought is that once I've completed this, I'll make several BIQs so that there can be more than 31 civs. But right now, I should try to get these 31 set up and then worry about the rest.