The AoM Travel Guide

[Mr. Will]

Ozymandias, you are a freaking genius. Just so you know.
Sorry, that's all I have. I do think that Oz's tech tree is on to something, I really like the way it works. (Runs off to create his own tech tree.)

Will each civ have only one government? I'm confused.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Well... I'm trying to figure out whether more than one government would be over the top.

And no, not all 31 civs have their own governments, but some do.

I like Ozy's suggestions, but I definitely don't like religions as wonders. Furthermore, I like having my civ-specific technologies flowing one to the next.

But I should note though that they don't all go one after another. Some branch off from generic techs.

 

[Mr. Will]

So the Aztecs can be under communism if they wanted to and not Aztec Hegemony later in the game? (I.e. they don't have to use their civ-specific gov.)

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Right, there are certain governments that are mutual to everybody.

There are some civs that have their own governments like the Iroquois, Aztecs, and Chinese... but other civs that don't have their own government like the Spanish, English, or Japan.

 

[Ozymandias]

So if The Great Law gives the Hodensaunee League government, should Covenant Chain lead to another new government for the Iroquois?

I think so -- perhaps call it The Great Covenant. Perhaps more corruption but less war weariness than the Republic as well as higher draft / military police; also forced labor and standard trade bonus (personally, I like the idea of a gov with those last two together as a nice change of pace).

-Oz

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I think so -- perhaps call it The Great Covenant. Perhaps more corruption but less war weariness than the Republic as well as higher draft / military police; also forced labor and standard trade bonus (personally, I like the idea of a gov with those last two together as a nice change of pace).

-Oz

Yeah... I dunno if I'll use it for this one, but yes. I don't really see forced labor as being applicable here. I mean, the whole point of this tech is reforms to equalize rather than further subjugate.

But yes, for another government, that might work very well.

Perhaps for an Inca-specific government.


EDIT: I'd also like to stress one other thing... as I said before, this is more than just coming up with comparable techs and buildings with the same functions.

My overall intention is to enhance the existing traits of the various civilizations. The Aztecs being the most complete and distinct of the civs best illustrates this point... they're Religious and Militaristic. They get a big boost to religion with the ability to sacrifice, and in terms of military, EVERY single Aztec-specific building has some kind of military function in addition to whatever it's other function is.

The Koreans, on the other hand, have no such military bonuses, but they have several extra educational institutions that give them a big boost in terms of science and technology... but they lack much of the military prowess to sustain themselves... so in their case, it's best for them not to fight their enemies with weapons of the same era, but rather to push ahead to the next one and defeat them with more advanced weapons.

There are civs like the Iroquois who are all about policy and diplomacy. They're spies and diplomats are crack... they have a lot of corruption-reducing improvements. They're government is very advanced for it's time and gives basically the same benefits (and drawbacks) as Democracy (I mean Democracy in terms of the game) but hundreds of years earlier.

Still there are other civilizations that have governments that are extremely well-suited for small civilizations... and others that their whole purpose is to be sprawled out as far as possible, like the Mongols, but lackling in much of the infrastructure to hold their possessions.

And so it all creates one mystical whole... will it be unbalanced? Well, we'll have to wait and see!

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Okay... I've made a decision... the Mongols will have only one civ-specific technology... The Horde.

The Horde will give two things: one is the Keshik. The second is the government Khanate. The Khanate works best with towns rather than large cities, it suffers from the tile penalty, xenophobia, and forced settlement, and forced labor. However, it's best feature is that it 1) requires no maintenance for buildings, and 2) has no corruption... so the city farthest from the capital and the city closest to the capital are essentially on equal ground. The local rulers govern freely and independently from one another but pledge fealty to the Great Khan.

So.... if the Mongols have only one tech, isn't that going to unbalance them? Yes... and no. By giving them only one tech, it kills two birds with one stone for me... I have NO ideas for Mongolian technologies and city improvements... and I also have no idea which religion I should associate with them because in addition to smaller religions, the Mongolians were both Muslim and Buddhist.... SOOOOOO... I'll give them BOTH the Muslim and Buddhist tech trees. And they will be able to build BOTH of their city improvements, and use BOTH of their unique citizens.

 

[Xen]

heh, they were even more then buddist and Islamic; a tribe called the Khazars that established themseoves in south western Russia were jewish- a nea tlittle interesting fact IMO

 

[Dom Pedro II]

heh, they were even more then buddist and Islamic; a tribe called the Khazars that established themseoves in south western Russia were jewish- a nea tlittle interesting fact IMO

Good gad!!

How did THAT happen?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Okay... I've decided that the individualist-collectivist division is a good one... HOWEVER, should it be maintained through the game, or should the civs have a chance to break out of it?

For example... I have a Humanism tech... should that only be accessible to Individualist civs? Or should I allow everybody to have it? So that they can "evolve" into a more individualist society.

Also, if I do continue this through the rest of the game, should I make it so that Communism is only available to the Collectivists, and Socialist Democracy only to individualists?

 

[Ozymandias]

Okay... I've decided that the individualist-collectivist division is a good one... HOWEVER, should it be maintained through the game, or should the civs have a chance to break out of it?

For example... I have a Humanism tech... should that only be accessible to Individualist civs? Or should I allow everybody to have it? So that they can "evolve" into a more individualist society.

Also, if I do continue this through the rest of the game, should I make it so that Communism is only available to the Collectivists, and Socialist Democracy only to individualists?

I haven't played much with Flavors -- do they work well enough so that, say, a 0% chance, 50%, and 100% chance for three different Civs re: developing the (non-tradeable) Humanism tech would work? -- If so, I'd assign 100% to Western Civs, 0% to most Asian and New World Civs, 50% to Russian; etc.

-Oz

 

[Dom Pedro II]

This could work... but then, of course, this doesn't apply to the human player then.

 

[Ozymandias]

This could work... but then, of course, this doesn't apply to the human player then.

Hmmm ... Let's see (I hope this makes sense, I haven't had any coffee yet ) try "mixing & matching" Era=None techs with flavors. Use the Era=None techs to determine the 0% or 100% chances of research, and the flavors for anything in between -- the downside being that the flavor-influenced Civ should not be human playable ...

,

Oz

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Hmmm ... Let's see (I hope this makes sense, I haven't had any coffee yet ) try "mixing & matching" Era=None techs with flavors. Use the Era=None techs to determine the 0% or 100% chances of research, and the flavors for anything in between -- the downside being that the flavor-influenced Civ should not be human playable ...

,

Oz

I have been mixing and matching flavors with NONE era techs. Most of the stuff is NONE era techs, but in the case of the Christians, I've made Protestantism and it's branching techs open to everybody with Catholic civs being much less likely to research them... but they can, of course, trade for them.

 

[Ozymandias]

I have been mixing and matching flavors with NONE era techs. Most of the stuff is NONE era techs, but in the case of the Christians, I've made Protestantism and it's branching techs open to everybody with Catholic civs being much less likely to research them... but they can, of course, trade for them.

I like that solution Question though -- should whichever Civ controls the Vatican/Papacy/Holy Whatever be allowed to acquire Protestanism?

-Oz

 

[NateDawgNY]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Good gad!!

How did THAT happen?

IIRC, they first came in contact with a nearby Jewish community. They ended up liking the religion so much that they converted en masse.
The other theory I've heard is that they were actually descended from one of the dispersed tribes of Northern Israel.

Here's some additonal info on that subject:
PBS Investigation
This'll throw you for a loop

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Thanks.


Btw, now that I have a UU, the Hebrews have replaced the Hittites... so please, inundate me with techs, citizens, and city improvements...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

You've got quite a to-do-list DPII...which mod this or the One Nation Divisable comes first?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I dunno... I mean, this mod is much, much bigger and so will naturally take longer. But it's also the one I'm most dedicated to since I've been working on it for sooo long.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I'm looking at my enormous spread sheet of techs and improvements, and I'm see A LOT of gaps...

I'm setting it so that everybody has the same number of technologies, or at the very least CLOSE to the same amount.

Basically, there's going to be:

8 Ancient techs per Civ
12 Middle Age tech per Civ
6 Industrial tech per Civ
2 Modern tech per Civ

Now... this can be distributed between cultural-specific and civ-specific techs, but every Civ should have these number of techs in addition to the techs that everybody can research.