The Arrest Feature

[Thunderbrd]

Ok, so some things have been going in on the SVN here for this so I figured I would 'officially' introduce it since its now fully functional.

We've long had numerous complaints about criminals and other 'enemy' units being able to endlessly hang out in our cities and for some of us the complaint goes the other way around where it feels a little too easy to wreak havoc on another player by hanging out in their cities, enhancing their crime, and ambushing them whenever you can get a good shot in - only to retreat back to the city to safety.

While some of this is fun, there should be risk involved and the risk has now officially been introduced.

At the moment, this mechanism is a 2 stage process but down the road a version or two and I'll cycle back around to making it a 3 stage process:

1. The Investigation Check:
   • Criminal units commonly are able to blend into cities safely. Not all of them but some of that gets down to the differences between strike teams, criminals and ruffians but Thieves, Rogues, Assassins and so on can generally get away with entering an enemy city (now even if you're at war with the city's owner.)
     
     
   • They now also have an ability dubbed 'Insidiousness'. This is their ability to diminish the likelihood of being 'investigated'. Think of it as how clever or careful they are when they commit their crimes. There are promotions (and buildups) in place now so they can begin developing their Insidiousness abilities further and techs unlock quite a potential for them in this regard.
     
     
   • Law Enforcement units now have an ability dubbed 'Investigation'. This allows them to put together the ability to 'prove' that a criminal has been up to no good and should be arrested. Promotions (and buildups) are also in place to help them develop this ability.
     
     
   • It can be helpful to think of it as the city is doing the investigation check. This check takes place each round for every criminal hiding out in the city. This check takes place on a d1000 roll check (for gamers out there who know what this means.) Each point of Investigation the city can muster up is a .1% chance of successfully investigating a criminal but each point of insidiousness the criminal possesses (plus any help he may be getting from some city buildings he can 'hideout' in) reduces that chance by .1% as well.
     
     
   • Much like healing abilities, only the Law Enforcement unit with the highest investigation value will add his value to the city when the city makes the Investigation check. So it only helps to take one local law enforcement unit and develop his investigation abilities to a peak - multiple units with investigation offer no further assistance. Buildings that add investigation to add on top of the best local investigating unit and I believe we should soon have a specialist that can add on to this value as well.
     
     
   • Skilled Criminals CAN negate even the most skilled Law Enforcement and as a result, if you avoid buildings that give Insidiousness to local criminals and make sure to build buildings that give Investigation to Law Enforcement, the edge will be given to Investigation. Additionally, criminals have a LOT of things to focus skill development on while LE units don't have nearly such a range so commonly you'd find it easier to have a good Investigating LE unit in a city than it would be to be sending into an opponent city a criminal with a maxed out Insidiousness. So the balance is in Investigations favor a bit. BUT it needs to be... .1% would require a lot of checks to get to the point where it's successful. I may look at adding a temporary +.1 investigation modifier for every round the criminal has been hiding out in the same city as well.
     
     
   • When an Investigation check goes poorly for a criminal it doesn't mean the criminal is automatically arrested.
     
     
   • What it means is that the criminal picks up an 'auto-promotion' called 'Wanted'. On Hide and Seek there are many levels of 'Wanted' and it can build up multiple times.
     
     
   • 'Wanted' erodes or completely negates the Criminal's invisibility abilities. It erodes his ability to blend into cities. And it makes him a potential target for arrest.
     
     
   • Note that your own criminals are equally susceptible to your own investigation efforts. Unless you want to try to play around with it and see if you can get some benefits from it (which you may) you'll probably want to keep your own criminal units OUTSIDE your own cities!
     
     
   • 'Wanted' promotions all vanish as soon as you get the criminal completely out of sight of the team of the player that successfully investigated you. Your criminal must get away, out of sight, so as to re-invent himself. If you've investigated your own criminal, just getting him outside your own territory will remove the Wanted promotion(s).
     
     
   • On Hide and Seek, it can be a game of chicken... if they can see you, they can arrest you but you MAY be able to remain hidden for a bit longer before they can. There are buildups for Disguise invisibility and promos for it and camouflage of course. If your criminal is very good at staying out of sight, despite the mounting penalties to invisibility, you may be able to survive a Wanted promo without being arrested. And you might invite them to try if you've got a very powerful criminal.
     
     
   • The best investigating unit will get a small amount of XP per investigation check he makes against a local criminal. The criminal will get a small amount of XP per round he successfully passes a check without becoming 'wanted'. There's natural ongoing training for criminals and law enforcement where criminals are hiding out in cities.
   
   
2. Make an Arrest:
   • The second stage to this process is the ability for Law Enforcement units to make an arrest. If they can see a criminal (even if it is yours) with a wanted promotion on the same tile (even if this is outside of a city) then they get an Arrest Action Button.
     
     
   • When selected, the arrest action will give you a popup selection list of all the criminals available for arrest. Law Enforcement is generally blind to whether the state is sanctioning a criminal or not so the list does not specify the player to whom the criminal belongs.
     
     
   • When you select one of the criminals to arrest, you immediately engage in an attack against that criminal by the arresting unit. It's not going to give you the odds for this attack so it will test your ability to gauge your own success. (YES - this means that I have successfully implemented and debugged the ability for units to attack other units on the same tile! My next step there is to work out the Ambush action for normal same-tile military style attacks. Coming soon...)
     
     
   • At the moment, if you are victorious, you've simply killed the criminal. All arrests are fatal. Which leads to:
   
   
3. Trial
   • Eventually I'll implement a trial process once a criminal has been arrested. A special capture mechanism based on the current capture odds rules will be implemented to support this - if the criminal is killed then it happened during the arrest but otherwise, if captured then a trial begins.
     
     
   • I plan to base on civics whether the trial takes place with an automatic result or with players having full control over the outcome with a popup selection list.
     
     
   • Trials will play out a little like goody results. In fact, I MAY piggyback on goody infos to set it up (but the python on each goody result would need to be eliminated!) Factors like civics, local laws, presence of lawyers on the tile where the arrest took place (or in the nearest city) (and maybe giving them promos and the ability to argue for differing unique results), possibly even leader traits, will all play a role in what results become possible.
     
     
   • Such results can span from killing the criminal (capital punishment) for local or national happiness value, turning him into a slave captive, setting him loose on the streets as an informant, fining him for gold, turning him loose for state sensitive information (espionage) are all intended to be possible. We could do to develop a list of suggested possibilities here.

So at the moment, Steps I and II are developed and in place on the SVN. I'm not sure if I'll go the whole distance with step III this cycle or not but I do know it's fairly involved and I want to get the new criminal and law enforcement units as reviewed into the game first.

Pirates haven't been included yet but they haven't been omitted... I'll need to see what we're going to do with them once we get back around to the naval review. Not sure if we should let them freely enter cities or not and that's the key to becoming open to being Investigated.

One of the points of this mechanism is to give Law Enforcement units multiple ways to specialize. With Hide and Seek, they can now specialize in security checks (visibility), Patrols (crime reduction), Crowd Control (promos coming soon for Revolt Resistance), Investigations, and Arrests (collecting combat benefits so they can move in when the investigator has accumulated a case against a local criminal!)

Criminal units already have numerous ways to specialize and being Insidious is just another way for them, though it's an 'interesting decision' whether this will be more important than enhancing invisibility or crime spreading or whatever else they wish to inflict on the enemy. Criminals have a tough role to play and are spread thin with a host of ways to be unique from one another.


So, as the latest development, any thoughts, comments, questions or concerns?

To clarify, the majority of the Arrest Feature is CORE, not just a Hide and Seek add on. Hide and Seek just enhances the depth of how it plays out is all.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

• Note that your own criminals are equally susceptible to your own investigation efforts.
  
• Law Enforcement is generally blind to whether the state is sanctioning a criminal or not so the arrest list does not specify the player to whom the criminal belongs.

Good.

My "executive summary" with questions.

• New CORE element to the game which has some expansions to these mechanics if you are playing with the "Hide and Seek" option on.
  
  
• When an Investigation check goes poorly for a criminal it doesn't mean the criminal is automatically arrested. It means that they become "known to the police as persons of interest" and are 'Wanted'.
  
  
• 'Wanted' erodes or completely negates the Criminal's invisibility abilities. It erodes his ability to blend into cities. And it makes him a potential target for arrest.
  
  
• 'Wanted' promotions all vanish as soon as you get the criminal completely out of sight of the team of the player that successfully investigated you.
  I assume "out of sight" will change due to technology, see my question below.
  
  
• 'Wanted' units may still evade "Arrest' which is attempted by a single unit at a time by
  
  
  • If a Law Enforcement units see a 'Wanted' criminal (even if it is yours) on the same tile (even if this is outside of a city) then they get an Arrest Action Button.
    
    
  • When selected, the arrest action will give you a popup selection list of all the criminals available for arrest.
    
    
  • When you select one of the criminals to arrest, you immediately engage in an attack against that criminal by the arresting unit. Which currently simply kills the criminal. All arrests are fatal.

Questions
What happens with the when the crime fighting starts to become national and international later in the game? I assume that entities like Pinkerton's and later FBI (in USA) would extend how far a unit has to go to flee and loose the 'Wanted' status. Some of this would be done with buildings but whet happens when the crime fighting goes international and includes things like extradition agreements and so on into the future?

In my view Highwaymen, Bandits and Pirates should only be able to do their crime stuff while in the open and should have no crime or other effect while in a city. If fact entering a city should give them a chance to lie low and loose any 'Wanted' status. Conversely their chance of capture should go up while in the city and still 'Wanted'.

• Trial
  • Eventually I'll implement a trial process once a criminal has been arrested. A special capture mechanism based on the current capture odds rules will be implemented to support this - if the criminal is killed then it happened during the arrest but otherwise, if captured then a trial begins.
    
    
  • I plan to base on civics whether the trial takes place with an automatic result or with players having full control over the outcome with a popup selection list.
    
    
  • Trials will play out a little like goody results. In fact, I MAY piggyback on goody infos to set it up (but the python on each goody result would need to be eliminated!) Factors like civics, local laws, presence of lawyers on the tile where the arrest took place (or in the nearest city) (and maybe giving them promos and the ability to argue for differing unique results), possibly even leader traits, will all play a role in what results become possible.
    
    
  • Such results can span from killing the criminal (capital punishment) for local or national happiness value, turning him into a slave captive, setting him loose on the streets as an informant, fining him for gold, turning him loose for state sensitive information (espionage) are all intended to be possible. We could do to develop a list of suggested possibilities here.

Will this be expanding or using the spy capture or mission stuff in any way? Or are there plans to replace enhance the Espionage mechanism? The mechanism currently allows for multiple levels of success of the spy unit and some variation on what to do with one which you capture. Some of this is handled using the event system to allow modification via the XML.

Edit Will criminal units now get access to the basic "avoid capture" promotions of the spy unit and the "silver tongue" promotion of the diplomat to improve their evade capture, loose 'wanted' promo efforts and affect the outcome of trials?

Judges have very little use at the moment will they be affecting all this? They are limited/national units, and like the Warlord units I would see their numbers increasing with technology or Civic choice.

Lawyers are the other anti-crime units and are also national units. Their main purpose in the modern era is to ensure the state does not commit crimes. In game they are just a form of corporate Inquisitor that does to corporations what the Inquisitor does with religions (sort of). Will they be incorporated into this? Technically in a trial by law lawyers are on both sides so should cancel each other out.

Will there be "Trial by trial eg fire, drowning, combat etc.", "Trial by Law" etc as civics or World Views?

Will we have prison camps where the prisoners do work eg work a plantation outside the work area of any city to provide the yields to a city?. With a consumables mod they would provide more of the resource.

edit2 There is s Sleeper Cell unit available but not in game at the moment. Interestingly enough the basic BtS AI knows how to use it and does so quite well. It is more of an espionage unit.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Lots of great questions and food for thought here DH! Obviously there is a lot of room for expanding complexity.

I'll try to answer as best as I can:

When you select one of the criminals to arrest, you immediately engage in an attack against that criminal by the arresting unit. Which currently simply kills the criminal. All arrests are fatal.

Let me clarify here that criminals can and do fight back (this means they may be able to kill or at least injure the unit that tries to arrest them!) and can withdraw if defensive withdraw is on - if they withdraw (and this is now standard for any future 'same tile' attack mechanism) they don't move to another tile but the battle does end. This makes it then possible for another arrest action to be taken by another LE unit.

I may change the withdrawal behavior at some point... depends on how it plays out in-game. I figured criminals, at least, would be fully capable of finding a way to escape while staying inside the boundaries of the city. Perhaps for other same-tile attacks I may vary this behavior.

What happens with the when the crime fighting starts to become national and international later in the game? I assume that entities like Pinkerton's and later FBI (in USA) would extend how far a unit has to go to flee and loose the 'Wanted' status. Some of this would be done with buildings but whet happens when the crime fighting goes international and includes things like extradition agreements and so on into the future?

Hmm... interesting question. It's fairly fixed... when a criminal has become 'wanted' it's defined not by the promo (that's actually a secondary effect of being wanted) but rather by the player that identified them. It's set up fairly solid that if the criminal becomes invisible or simply out of visibility range of that player, they can lose their wanted status. However, wanted is wanted and when wanted, any player can make the arrest.

Now, that said, perhaps we can work in 'extradition' treaties into the diplomacy mechanism that makes it so units wanted by one nation must also not be visible to any nation that has an extradition treaty with that nation. That could be cool. I'm not too hot on working with diplomacy screen options myself but maybe could sort it out. It's the AI on diplomacies that I've never worked with before that would take some preliminary research to figure out. But it shouldn't be TOO difficult I would hope.

In all I think it would be a cool feature to add to this.

In my view Highwaymen, Bandits and Pirates should only be able to do their crime stuff while in the open and should have no crime or other effect while in a city. If fact entering a city should give them a chance to lie low and loose any 'Wanted' status. Conversely their chance of capture should go up while in the city and still 'Wanted'.

Highwaymen and Bandits will be Ruffians. Ruffians have a general trait of being stronger at plot enhancing crime and also a general trait of not being able to enter non-friendly cities (although will be able to blend with barbarians as if they were on the same team - including their cities.) This is currently in the process of being established this version.

Since they cannot enter cities without attacking them and if they do attack the city and win the invasion, the city becomes a barbarian city, for these units, investigation and insidiousness is a fairly moot point. They're not being given insidiousness themselves and this is how units are, for this purpose, singled out as criminal.

This being the case, if a unit that isn't a criminal is given insidiousness value from its root definitions, promos, or its unitcombats, it is Investigateable and subject to potentially becoming wanted and arrested. What this is leading to is the potential for normal units to end up picking up criminal behaviors and becoming just as arrestable as career criminal units (something we'll see more about once I get to the Advanced Property system where criminal behavior 'outbreaks' on units can occur very much like diseases would be able to.)

I don't mean to blast your mind out quite yet... I'll let that manifest in short time here.


Pirates, on the other hand, I'm thinking should only be able to enter cities where Pirate Coves or other related naval hideouts are located, otherwise they're too obvious. But I'm not sure where I stand on that entirely yet.

Will this be expanding or using the spy capture or mission stuff in any way? Or are there plans to replace enhance the Espionage mechanism? The mechanism currently allows for multiple levels of success of the spy unit and some variation on what to do with one which you capture. Some of this is handled using the event system to allow modification via the XML.

I was wondering about this. I've never worked with this structure so I'm not sure if I should work through it or not to develop the trial process. So at the moment all I can really say is 'maybe'. Research into it would potentially illuminate at least the way it could play out here or ways it could/should be adapted.

Edit Will criminal units now get access to the basic "avoid capture" promotions of the spy unit and the "silver tongue" promotion of the diplomat to improve their evade capture, loose 'wanted' promo efforts and affect the outcome of trials?

I suspect not. However, they do have promos to enhance their iInsidiousness, which helps them to avoid being wanted in the first place. Perhaps they should have a mission that lets them 'turn themselves in' and vie for better results in trial once trials are setup. Whatever values would influence trials (and I'm hoping for severity of crimes to eventually be determinable by criminal behavior promos on the unit) should be something that they can develop or that local lawyers can develop to defend them so you can get more beneficial results through the trial process.

Judges have very little use at the moment will they be affecting all this? They are limited/national units, and like the Warlord units I would see their numbers increasing with technology or Civic choice.

How Judges would play a role is a question on my mind. Perhaps they could also be given the ability to develop their 'skills' and by so doing open up further options within trial procedures taking place locally. It would be nice if they were involved in this way. Their wisdom and achievements of their own could lead to more beneficial results in general.

My thinking on trials is that early in the game the Leader selects all results but the selections are limited. As society grows more complex, trial proceedings aren't just a matter of hauling the criminal off for judgement at the leader's full discretion. Control is lost but more complex and interesting result options could open up. A good Judge should access more nationally beneficial responses so all potential results must be based on a numeric value hierarchy and local judges can add numeric value to the check so that 'better' results are more commonly obtained, as well as potentially opening up new options entirely.

Lawyers are the other anti-crime units and are also national units. Their main purpose in the modern era is to ensure the state does not commit crimes. In game they are just a form of corporate Inquisitor that does to corporations what the Inquisitor does with religions (sort of). Will they be incorporated into this? Technically in a trial by law lawyers are on both sides so should cancel each other out.

Lawyers are an interesting thing aren't they? Whether they should enhance or reduce crime is always going to be debatable. So perhaps lawyer UNITS should be able to develop down either a Defender or Prosecuter path, influencing results yet further. I'm thinking some research into how various cultures have established trial procedures and having the trial mechanism vary based on civics would be the first concern, then how Lawyers play into the mechanism would be somewhat dependent on those civics.

Will there be "Trial by trial eg fire, drowning, combat etc.", "Trial by Law" etc as civics or World Views?

There should be. Some work to develop this list is necessary.

These kinds of things need to be listed I think so we can categorize all the different ways approaches have been taken regarding trial procedures. I'm not sure if 'trial by fire' should be a selection given to the player (among trial by drowning for example) for a particular legal structure civic when a trial comes up or if it should be a civic itself that basically states 'this is how we handle criminals'. Seems to me usually a trial by fire was one of many common ways a system may choose to address a trial when it comes up among many other ways they may select. But what would the brackets be for that system that contains these selections and should the selection be given to the player or be part of the 'random' set of results?

Such determinations would need to be made. The trial mechanism will not be a light undertaking if we want to do it right imo.

Will we have prison camps where the prisoners do work eg work a plantation outside the work area of any city to provide the yields to a city?. With a consumables mod they would provide more of the resource.

I like this thinking and where it's heading. Would we have special improvements for that? Special criminal captive type units that build them? Would it be manifest through special criminal captive specialists? Criminal captives can be useful as 'slaves' even for a non-slave society.

I'm sure we can also envision prison buildings having a capacity and having certain options depends on that capacity not being overfilled. Perhaps they would have a variable drain on the economy depending on how many captives are contained there. Perhaps they would, under some civic selections, be capable of being more productive than draining.

There's lots and lots (mind boggling really) of potential here.

Particularly when I get barb criminals spawning from auto-buildings generated from high crime rates and their AI's sorted out so they will stick around and try to wreak as much criminal havoc as they can until arrested.

RE your 2nd edit: EDIT:
Tying all this in with the spy stuff will be ... difficult. But perhaps eventually after it is developed out more fully we can smooth the edges between the two so that there is some interplay and interaction between the two.

 

[strategyonly]

I assume that entities like Pinkerton's and later FBI (in USA) would extend how far a unit has to go to flee and loose the 'Wanted' status.

I used to work for Pinkerton's, nice of you to mention them,

 

[stoferb]

Interesting feature. Perhaps lawyers could add arrest chance for foreign criminals while reducing the risks for your own criminals? That way they are both hindering and helping the criminals while being useful and clear-cut in game-design terms (although I don't have a clue how difficult or easy it would be to program).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Interesting feature. Perhaps lawyers could add arrest chance for foreign criminals while reducing the risks for your own criminals? That way they are both hindering and helping the criminals while being useful and clear-cut in game-design terms (although I don't have a clue how difficult or easy it would be to program).

Would add significant complexity to a fairly simple (and memory cheap) solution. The investigation and insidiousness values aren't currently setup to work with these kinds of variations. A unit can take on a personal variation in either ability through promos or combat classes or even local buildings. But to take a variation from another local unit would require a variety of more memory (or processing heavy) methods and I'm not sure it would be worth it, at least in this case since I don't think lawyers come into play in the investigation process in RL much.

Easier for lawyers to influence the trial process. It's usually after the arrest that lawyers start playing a deeper role. Though I suppose they can be there for questioning processes before arrests are made at all...

 

[Harrier]

It's usually after the arrest that lawyers start playing a deeper role. Though I suppose they can be there for questioning processes before arrests are made at all...

Usually, only by career criminals, who know the pitfalls in the law and can afford good lawyers. A lot of guilty go free, but also lot of probably innoccent may go to jail (they have use cheaper less experienced lawyers).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Primarily, my point was that for the scope of the game, it's probably easier to keep lawyers off the table til' after the arrest.

 

[gudal]

Primarily, my point was that for the scope of the game, it's probably easier to keep lawyers off the table til' after the arrest.

Moving over from the old rogue thread. Really nice feature. Do I need to do an SVN install instead of installer to get this for now?

And also, not having played with this feature, I may be wrong, but is there a reason that you decided that only the strongest law enforcement applies, not all? A bigger law enforcement would be better, at least up to a point.

You could have independent arrest chances per unit, so that moving in a task force would be helpful, though this might be harder to program, I don't know (just making future suggestions here).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Moving over from the old rogue thread. Really nice feature. Do I need to do an SVN install instead of installer to get this for now?
<snip>

Yes the SVN install is what you need. See 1st post in SVN thread for instructions on how to set up SVN.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

And also, not having played with this feature, I may be wrong, but is there a reason that you decided that only the strongest law enforcement applies, not all? A bigger law enforcement would be better, at least up to a point.

You could have independent arrest chances per unit, so that moving in a task force would be helpful, though this might be harder to program, I don't know (just making future suggestions here).

Good question. I agree but couldn't see game balance being achieved otherwise. I've considered giving +.1% from each other LE unit present to the check, regardless of their usual Investigation ability. That may work but I worry even that may be a little too imbalanced.

The main reason for the design decision was to make it possible for the criminal to not be too easily overwhelmed, making it continue to be worthwhile for the criminal to take the promos that could help to keep them out of trouble.

If all LE were cumulatively adding to the check then the criminal wouldn't have a chance. If each one took an individual check it still could be pretty tough for the criminal but more importantly it could represent too great a slowdown.

Currently, many cities can get quite a few LE units just to combat the growing crime, making LE units one of the most common units in the game.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I was thinking that this more simulated reality better because you have some law enforcers doing basic stuff eg being on the beat and by being seen to discourage crime while others were actively pursuing villains.

I assumed it would work by you having all your law enforcers on build-up crime fighting and when a criminal unit is spotted the best is woken up to allow you to attempt to deal with them.

I also assumed that the chance of arrest was based on that unit with some modifiers from buildings and maybe other units present but that the outcome of the arrest would be greatly affected by the presence of things like a court/courthouse and units like judges etc.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I was thinking that this more simulated reality better because you have some law enforcers doing basic stuff eg being on the beat and by being seen to discourage crime while others were actively pursuing villains.

I assumed it would work by you having all your law enforcers on build-up crime fighting and when a criminal unit is spotted the best is woken up to allow you to attempt to deal with them.

You could play it that way, which is pretty much what the AI might do, but you could also just take one and specialize him in investigations as much as possible and leave him to build up investigation ability while the rest are set to the 'beat patrols' (or perhaps yet another for security checks to enhance visibility on Disguised units if you're playing with Hide and Seek.)

I also assumed that the chance of arrest was based on that unit with some modifiers from buildings and maybe other units present but that the outcome of the arrest would be greatly affected by the presence of things like a court/courthouse and units like judges etc.

'Chance of Arrest'. If this term means the chance of success in the battle against the criminal then it would mean it's only influenced by the combat prowess of the law enforcement unit that moves to arrest the criminal - this is basically a whole 'nother specialty for a localized LE unit, to develop offensive combat skills. On Fight or Flight, this would include needing to develop pursuit skills since criminals do tend to have some withdrawal capability.

If by Chance of Arrest you mean the chance of successfully taking the criminal to trial, it will be based on the chance of capture. I'll use the capture mechanism we sorted out to determine if the criminal unit was successfully captured and if so, rather than automatically getting a captive unit, you'd get a trial event. LE units already have an enhanced capacity to capture criminals and it can be further tuned so that it's much more likely than your standard warfare conflict. The Non-Lethal Combat promotion will be much more valuable for Arresting LE units than we've seen in most other applications so far.

And yes, Outcome of the Trial would be determined by civics, buildings, administrators present, etc...