The axeman cometh

[Loge]

I need help with early war. It's a broad question but I thought maybe some of you could give some tips on strategy.

My games usually go like: if no one declares war on me first, I go to war shortly after building the Great Library (I'm obsessed with that wonder). I use the usual assortment of axemen plus catapults once they become available, plus a few other units. I never seem to eliminate my first target until 800-1000AD after having to declare peace in the middle to reload, and by then macemen are around. Then I hear about people on here eliminating somebody by 1AD or earlier and I wonder what I'm doing wrong. Should I just go for it once I have copper hooked up? Maybe going for early literature isn't worth it, especially now that alphabet isn't on the way in BtS. But you also get the Epics. *Shrug* Btw settings are standard/normal/continents/monarch or emperor.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Two tips:

1) Check out Sisiutil's latest ALC game for how to conduct an early rush (and much else besides):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=241464

2) Forget about building the Great Library for a few games - it'll help you to become a better player generally, and allow you to focus on what you need for your early-game conquests.

 

[Mesousa]

Should I just go for it once I have copper hooked up?

That's why people like to call it an axemen rush. If you wait until Literature, you have given your opponents way too much time to build up defenses - units and culture and walls - and they might have too many cities for you to completely annihilate them too. I'd say if you build the GL it should be during the expansion phase well after your first war (or two), and when you're about to start preparing for one that will be fought with macemen and catapults.

If a rush doesn't suit your playing style though, don't worry. It's not like you have to have an axemen war. Just don't try one when it really is quite too late.

 

[LuckyAC]

You should attack by about 1000 BC if you are rushing pre-siege unit.

 

[Phrederick]

If you want to war with axemen, don't worry about the Great Library. I'd prefer an extra 2-3 cities over two free scientists and +8GPs in most games. In games you want to get the GL, then wait for cats/macemen or something else in that era

 

[DutchJob]

ok, no later then 1000 bc. how many axeman do you have to take with you? and how many at what time? 4 axeman at 1500 bc? 6/7 at 1000 bc?

with BtS it seems the AI has 2 or 3 archers in the capital in no-time. on 1000 bc for sure. i just can't whip that efficient to get 5/6 axeman together real quick. furthermore, as soon as you enter their 'Heimat' they poprush a extra archer every turn...

thnx.

 

[JimT]

Depends on the situation. 4 can wipe through a capital very early but you might need 6/7 if you have waited too long (40%) culture. Scout out your neighbour to check how many you will need.
Try and get a worker or two plus a settler up then concentrate on your army (you will probably need the settler for copper).


Don't declare war until you have enough troops, don't sit next to his borders until your ready to attack and make sure you have fresh troops coming up.

I generally try and get a barracks ASAP, I feel the CR promo for your troops outweighs the axemen lost, some may disagree.

 

[Diamondeye]

When axerushing, you have to start very early (hence the rush ), and you have to have a formidable force compared to anything the enemy can arrange as defenses. A good idea is 6-8 axes for the first wave.
Also, deiced your target well:
1) Distance: The closer then enemy, the shorter the war, the lesser the maintenance.
2) Cultural Defenses: Try to avoid a Creative enemy leader as these get early +% defenses, requiring more troops from you. Also, avoid people who have religions as these also gives a +%.

 

[axident]

Depending on how strong your capital is and if you have copper in its cultural boundaries, you might be able to do a 1-city rush. In one Emperor game, my 2nd city was completely useless and I shouldn't have bothered with it. Even with that waste of a settler, I built the Great Wall, and then I pumped 8 axemen out with 4 more reinforcements en route during my first war.. and after annihilating one civ I kept pushing east and took another city from another civ before stopping. Those 12 axemen completely destroyed one neighbor and gave me +4 cities, for a total of 6 which kind of hurts without Currency or Code of Laws, but at least I was Organized (Napoleon). I extorted and stole some techs and soon after destroyed most of the Zulus with swords/axes, though I had to use cats to knock their last mainland city down.

If it had been a later-delayed rush like the one you described, I would probably have taken only 1-2 cities as the AI would have beefed up its defenses and cultural defenses by then. Strike while the iron (or copper) is hot!

 

[slobberinbear]

I am finding at higher difficulty levels that, in the early game, my choices are either to attack early or build a lot of wonders. The third choice, build a lot of cities, is almost always a disaster financially.

So if I don't axe or sword rush early, I am almost always going for the early wonders, especially if I have Stone or Marble. In that sort of game, when I do attack, it's always with at least swords and catapults.

If you want to practice rushing, try using an aggressive civ or one with an early offensive unique unit. The Greeks, Sumerians, and Incas (to name a few) are great for practicing early offensive strategies.

Greek Phalanxes, in particular, are very hard to kill. You'll lose more from attacking cities than you ever will to counterattacks.

 

[axident]

I am finding at higher difficulty levels that, in the early game, my choices are either to attack early or build a lot of wonders. The third choice, build a lot of cities, is almost always a disaster financially.

So if I don't axe or sword rush early, I am almost always going for the early wonders, especially if I have Stone or Marble. In that sort of game, when I do attack, it's always with at least swords and catapults.

If you want to practice rushing, try using an aggressive civ or one with an early offensive unique unit. The Greeks, Sumerians, and Incas (to name a few) are great for practicing early offensive strategies.

Greek Phalanxes, in particular, are very hard to kill. You'll lose more from attacking cities than you ever will to counterattacks.

Nonsense, REX still works. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=240749

 

[Silence101]

The Great Library is one of the few wonders that I can't live without either - well, I guess I could, but I usually try and prioritize it. Still though, I'm a big fan of early warring I don't have a problem coming away with the Great Library too. So, I'm not sure why you feel that early warring is going to somehow prohibit you getting the Great Library - which seems to be your concern if I'm understanding correctly, but I think you should be able to do both. (Granted, at higher difficulties, that may not be as possible... I play Prince.) I like to go to war as soon as I've got BW and copper hooked up which a few units produced - like others have mentioned... assuming I've got a neighbor nearby.

 

[Loge]

Thanks for the advice. I just started an emperor game as Zara Yaqob and rushed Isabella once I had 3 cities. It was really easy . I wondered why I haven't been doing this all along. I forgot about Literature and prioritized mathematics.

Then I decided to keep the mo going and moved on Hannibal. This might have been a mistake b/c I only got 1 city at a high cost before having to sue for peace. I still didn't have CoL and I was running like 20% science . I got lucky that Isabella had built the Great Wall, so I got alphabet and robbed Hannibal blind. Should I have built up my existing empire before trying a second war? Is that typical, or do you keep at it?

 

[Harbourboy]

It's not so much a case of the dates at which these things happen, but doing them before certain AI milestones:
1) Very early rush before any metals are hooked up (can be done with quechua or warriors or immortals/chariots)
2) Early rush while cultural defenses are non-existent or very low (usually axemen)
3) Last chance for rush before longbowmen arrive (usually swordsmen plus maybe catapults)

The key is getting whatever units you are planning to use out and into battle in the window you have before their countering defense is up. There is a certain window in which each type of rush can be done. The earlier you beeline for the tech that allows the rush (e.g. bronzeworking for axes, or iron working for swords / praetorians) the longer that window is for you.

But, in all but the most peaceful of games, you'd usually want to target somebody in the pre-longbowmen era.

 

[RandomLeader]

First time ever I think I performed a perfect axe rush. Random gave me Toguwana to rule with, so I got fishing and wheel(?) as a starting techs. So I build a workboat-worker-warrior-setler. I beelined to bronze and got it quite soon. Then another setler. So I had 3 decent cities with ok production for early game and I just builded barracks and started to pump out axes. Quite soon I noticed Berlin close by and stupid german wanted open borders. So my scouting axeman took a look around and noticed that there was pyramids in berlin and 3 archers guarding it. Heh.. hills capital with lots of food. So with 8 axes I took it and 3 axes took another city then peace. I got 2 ecxelent cities quite early and huge boost to my economy (representation..) when I got to grew larger. And of course.. stupid german had beelined to alphabet so I got 2 techs in early time from him. Including that alphabet. hehe.

This was monarch level and I'm sorry that I don't remember the year but I beelined to CoL and got it quite soon after the war.

EDIT: By perfect I mean that I didn't criple my self when expanding, I made peace in time, I gained a lot of great ground (my future production city), I gained nice wonder and I don't have to worry about barbarians anymore cause there is only a chunk of land between my capital and my new capital Berlin where are fog busting axemen.

 

[DutchJob]

thnx for all the advice. i'm mastering it. have to use slavery though (don't like to poprush, call me sentimental...) and chop some.

RL,

what you just described sounds like the perfect scenario. the mids' build for you for free! games like that can't go wrong anymore unless you . .. .. .. . up yourself.

 

[slobberinbear]

I have played a few games without slavery. Usually as Lincoln. It seemed wrong to have the great Emancipator running around with the whip. I have played several games as Sitting Bull without slavery or major chopping (saving the trees, don't you know ). It can be done.

If you don't whip, you had better make sure you have a military production city making units because you will have no way to rush units for a long time. You should also get to Feudalism or Code of Laws so that you can run Serfdom or Caste System. It's also hard to do a super early military rush without whipping.

A limited-chopping strategy can also work. As Sitting Bull, my rule was that I only chopped to work a resource tile or to finish an absolutely critical wonder.

As a result, I grew slower (no farms for those riverside forests) and had fewer cottages, but never lacked for hammers. I didn't need a huge army of workers, either. I did have to find other ways to make money, not having as many cottages, and used shrines, conquest, calendar resources, and trade to generate cash. It was challenging but fun. I liked having a ton of trees for lumber mills, forest preserves, the national park, and environmentalism.

 

[RandomLeader]

Question for all you oracles from this forum..

What is the PURPOSE to your early rush? What is your goal? Is it to capture a city close by or is it to criple your neighbor once and for all? Do you try to destroy your neighbor with early rush? Plz, tell.

 

[Loge]

Having done my first bona fide rush with the advice from this thread, I found:

-Getting a rival's capital early is huge because they're almost always in powerful spots, giving you a 2nd great city site early. Also you get them before they build up defense units and culture/walls, making catapults necessary.

-Just getting a couple of cities and making peace still makes a good early rush, especially if you get the capital. You only have to wait 10 turns to finish the job if you want.

 

[axident]

Question for all you oracles from this forum..

What is the PURPOSE to your early rush? What is your goal? Is it to capture a city close by or is it to criple your neighbor once and for all? Do you try to destroy your neighbor with early rush? Plz, tell.

It depends on the situation, but in very general terms, it helps to weaken your neighbors early, while they still have low cultural defense and no longbows, and thereby increase your territory with fairly low risk. More territory = more population, production, commerce, resources, a larger inner core that can be ill-defended, etc. I often try to extort techs from someone when they are near death, in exchange for 10 turns of peace before eventual extermination, but sometimes I just want another civ dead ASAP so as to reduce "joining the motherland" .