Lexicus
Deity
Another Boeing plane has crashed in India, with at least approx. 300 dead so far
The Boeing Thread
- Thread starter Kaitzilla
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EnglishEdward
Deity
Yes, and only one survivor.
www.theguardian.com
British man is sole survivor of Air India plane crash that left more than 260 dead
Flight AI171 was bound for London when it crashed into residential area of Ahmedabad shortly after takeoff
www.theguardian.com
It's odd how the landing gear isn't being retracted right after lift off, as take-off procedure dictates.
Perhaps pilot error, or the pilots faced a serious problem right after lift off and they tried to understand/solve it, aborting lift off procedure?
Perhaps pilot error, or the pilots faced a serious problem right after lift off and they tried to understand/solve it, aborting lift off procedure?
EnglishEdward
Deity
Perhaps the Boeing software wasn't up to it.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Double engine failure i dare to guess, probably provoked by something else, something electric probably. The 787 is a flying computer. The gear may be down because the pilot was trying to land desperately on a road or some other hard surface, or because the hypotethical electric failure blocked it down.
Dont know what engines did that aircraft had, it may be General Electric or Rolls Royce.
Dont know what engines did that aircraft had, it may be General Electric or Rolls Royce.
The one survivor is a true miracle. Seat 11A!
I think this model of plane is supposed to be able to take off with just 1 engine?
Double engine failure right after leaving the ground?
The black box should give some answers soon.
**Edit**
Captain Steeeve thinks the leading theory is the co-pilot retracted the flaps instead of the landing gear.
I think this model of plane is supposed to be able to take off with just 1 engine?
Double engine failure right after leaving the ground?
The black box should give some answers soon.
**Edit**
Captain Steeeve thinks the leading theory is the co-pilot retracted the flaps instead of the landing gear.
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Airline carrying out Boeing 787 safety checks as families reunited with victims
India is urgently inspecting all Boeing 787s after a devastating Air India crash that claimed at least 270 lives this week, the aviation minister said on Saturday, adding that the authorities were investigating all possible causes.
The aviation regulator on Friday ordered Air India to conduct additional maintenance checks on its Boeing 787-8/9 aircraft equipped with GEnx engines, including assessments of certain take-off parameters, electronic engine control tests and engine fuel-related checks.
"We have also given the order to do the extended surveillance of the 787 planes. There are 34 in our Indian fleet," aviation minister Ram Mohan Naidu told a media briefing in New Delhi.
"Eight have already been inspected, and with immediate urgency, all of them are going to be done."
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/...-boeing-plane-cause-latest-news-b2770031.html
Just a precaution measure, or does India's aviation regulator know more than they are willing to share with the public at this time?
I've seen some analysts suspect that the doomed airliners ram air turbine was deployed just before it crashed, which it would only normally do in the case of very serious problems - loss of hydraulics, electrical power or engine power. But it's hard to tell from the footage available if the RAT was deployed or not.
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r16
not deity
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- Nov 10, 2008
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like what ? That the engines stopped simultaneously and that for the moment they will say it happened because recently they were doing regular maintenance on the plane and they dropped it on the floor bodily and that might be the reason until the day they will field a complete Rafale squadron on Crete or there abouts ? The British are not "European" , only temporary "allies" in support of war but like if anyone says it is a god given duty not to buy American , like be my guest ...
for anyone confused or something , this is once again lack of free tech transfer on high temperature materials . Which made GE win both of the F-35 replacement engine competition which will not go forward in the technically recommended way and the NGAD engine which will sink with the plane as soon as Trump is out of White House .
for anyone confused or something , this is once again lack of free tech transfer on high temperature materials . Which made GE win both of the F-35 replacement engine competition which will not go forward in the technically recommended way and the NGAD engine which will sink with the plane as soon as Trump is out of White House .
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Watched a video with sound, it sounds like a prop instead of a turbofan. That could be explained because the RAT was deployed, which only happens when everything electric fails, generators, APU, etc. So I lean towards total electric failure ---> engine failure. Find the pilot raising flaps instead of gear theory difficult to believe. Gear handle is small and it is in the main panel, while flaps handle it is the pedestal panel and is a totally different shape and motion. But then the guy in the YouTube is a real pilot, so I suppose it is possible.
^ About the secondary footage (where the deployed RAT is supposedly audible) - to me it also looks like the aircraft is flying too slow. Normally its airspeed should increase as soon as the wheels let go off the runway. Looks like it doesn't have enough engines thrust to increase airspeed and remain airborne.
For those who also do not know what a Ram Air Turbine is I found this, and they had more to say. I initially thought of Remote Access Trojan, the first time one of those brings down a plane it will be news.
While aviation experts did speculate whether the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) or RAT (Ram Air Turbine)—both emergency power sources on the aircraft—were deployed, the clearer video sourced directly from Ansari’s phone seems to suggest that the RAT was down. That ties in with what the sole survivor testified to—a loud bang accompanied by the light going out, and then a green light coming in the cabin. And the captain’s mayday call.
The bang could be indicative of a lower hatch giving way and the RAT being deployed automatically, a regulatory source said, while adding that there could be other triggers for a loud sound too. The RAT is essentially a wind turbine located just behind the landing gear console that deploys into the airstream to generate power only when primary and secondary power sources fail. The APU is a smaller turbine engine, typically located in the tail section of the aircraft, that provides electrical and pneumatic power for various on-board systems.
Now, a dual engine failure is the rarest-of-rare event. But if the RAT deployed, it means there was a grave emergency—either a total electrical failure, a debilitating hydraulic failure, or a dual-engine failure, or a combination of these or more factors. Given the appearance of not sufficient lift and loss of thrust, the dual-engine failure theory, which many experts earlier said was not probable but still theoretically possible, could now well be a leading question for investigators to look into.
While aviation experts did speculate whether the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) or RAT (Ram Air Turbine)—both emergency power sources on the aircraft—were deployed, the clearer video sourced directly from Ansari’s phone seems to suggest that the RAT was down. That ties in with what the sole survivor testified to—a loud bang accompanied by the light going out, and then a green light coming in the cabin. And the captain’s mayday call.
The bang could be indicative of a lower hatch giving way and the RAT being deployed automatically, a regulatory source said, while adding that there could be other triggers for a loud sound too. The RAT is essentially a wind turbine located just behind the landing gear console that deploys into the airstream to generate power only when primary and secondary power sources fail. The APU is a smaller turbine engine, typically located in the tail section of the aircraft, that provides electrical and pneumatic power for various on-board systems.
Now, a dual engine failure is the rarest-of-rare event. But if the RAT deployed, it means there was a grave emergency—either a total electrical failure, a debilitating hydraulic failure, or a dual-engine failure, or a combination of these or more factors. Given the appearance of not sufficient lift and loss of thrust, the dual-engine failure theory, which many experts earlier said was not probable but still theoretically possible, could now well be a leading question for investigators to look into.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Great explanation, we flight simulation freaks think everybody knows what a APU or a RAT is. APU is more a service power source than a emergency system though, even if it can provide power when engine generators fail in an emergency. It us used daily for starting up engines. In a car you have a battery, which is enough to start the relatively tiny engine of a car, but batteries are not powerful enough to start a huge airliner turbofan, so they use the aircraft battery to start the APU turbine (which is about the same size/power of a car engine) and then the APU to start the turbofan. Think of it like a mid step.
Even when the airport can provide external power supply engines are usually started when the plane is performing the pushback procedure, so it is already moving backwards from the gate and it can't be connected to a external power supply anymore.
Even when the airport can provide external power supply engines are usually started when the plane is performing the pushback procedure, so it is already moving backwards from the gate and it can't be connected to a external power supply anymore.
Yup, he switched to the RAT and double-engine failure theory as well.
It seems the pilots had no chance at all.
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Thorgalaeg
Deity
It's disturbing that a flight simulator moron can make better guesses than a real veteran pilot with thousands of flight hours under his belt. 
It's disturbing that a flight simulator moron can make better guesses than a real veteran pilot with thousands of flight hours under his belt.
Apparently there are 2 videos of the plane with the RAT deployed.
The 1st video is a clear one from a smartphone with the propellor noise clearly recorded.
The 2nd video is a recording of the first video.
The quality is bad and there are people talking on it.
The pilot must have watched the 2nd one first?
Anyway, double engine failure right after leaving the ground is almost unthinkable.
What are the odds of that happening?
I do remember an episode from one of the air crash investigation tv series, centered around an airliner losing power right after takeoff in the UK. It also crashed. But it's very rare.
Anyhow, there's a report of another 787 from Air India with technical issues from yesterday. It had to return back to Hong Kong ~15 mins after takeoff.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/air-in...s-hong-kong-technical-issue-days-after-crash/
