The Boeing Thread

Yeah, the voice recording doesn't really prove whether it's the alleged culprit being asked, or if he asked his co-pilot the question to place blame away from himself.

I don't envy the investigators tasked with figuring it out. They'll have to investigate both pilots, their family situation, financials, medical history and so on with a microscope.
I think the first suspect should be the pilot monitoring, since the pilot handling is too busy keeping the aircraft on the path. Usually it is the first officer who handles the aircraft during taking off and landings to add hours to his logbook while the captain is monitoring. So I would investigate the captain first.
 
The turbofans had not completely stopped, yet, so one engine was starting to gain power, but it was too late.
Both engines N2 had gone below idle. Turning back on the engines took a full 10 seconds, from 08:08:42 to 08:08:52, that is a lot of time on an aircraft. Engines went through relight but it was way too late. Engine noise is such an obvious cue it's amazing the sane pilot took so long to react.

Engine cutoff during takeoff has happened before, check out the 1993 air inter incident where the captain blew a fuse and shut down both engines at ~4500´. Co-pilot turned the engines back on immediately, but captain shut them down again. Fortunately there was no stupid armored cockpit door at the time, so the stews were able to restrain the captain, unlike that fatefull germanwing flight were the cockpit door sucessfully resisted attempts to enter and sealed the flight's fate. The air inter A320 eventually recovered at ~1500ft, and the incident was carefully covered up at the time but there are records.
 
... if you hate me , don't read it or something

Spoiler :

don't know this will be recorded as the hottest day ever for the big city nearby but getting out to the street resembled opening the oven's lid . The smell in the air by midnight ı couldn't make sense of but the echo chamber says it is ash carried over some 100 kilometers in the air . The big city nearby has quite a light pollution and ı could maybe see 5 or 10 stars at most on a given clear night , barely could make one .

the forest fires we had never heard of in the glory of New Turkey but they managed to have 10 killed in the line of firefighting , some seriously harsh way of reporting it . If won't fight the fire , just don't risk people maybe ? Must have happened previously with some deaths as the fire can be truly dangerous and lethal , but can't remember this much losses ...

uh , off-topic ? Yeah , another memorandum of understanding . British sells New Turkey 40 Eurofighters . The blog that dispenses Pentagon's lies even mentions British Labor union something , calling it a betrayal of their country with Warton , the final production facility of BAC ; with English Electric origins , closing down for good . Like just a week ago it was reported like 67 or 75% of the demonstrator of their artillery spotter has been assembled . Like in Warton , for service stuff expected by 2035 . It was big thing even for Germans , too , who have to keep their production facilities busy until 2040 , as that's the time when the French will finish their artillery spotter in the co-production stuff . (Nobody used to need fighters when these programmes started)

the article even says the search for fighters is now likely over . Uh uh .

the same site also reports Lockmart offers some new F-35 variant as a bridge . With a poster or two creating a line for calling it F-41 and like not the F-38 . One follows the British formula of basing names on the products of companies that have fallen by the wayside , the Republic P-41 and not Lockheed's very own P-38 . Early F-40s , as you might have encountered somewhere around . Like the Turkish production scheme has its name already and Americans will (happily) go the Pre-MacNamara , pre 1962 way . Like the Grumman F-14 could still be be F14F , if they avoided giving a Grumman number to General Dynamics F-111 and avoided F13F on bad luck connotations . Was impressed by the rot McDonnell Douglas supposedly emanates working backwards in history as well . Historians in maybe 2023(?) discovering F12F is the Grumman Tiger with the J-79 engine and not the G-118 that lost out to the F4H/F-110 Phantom II ... F-35D for the USN and let USAF get its share , too , isn't that viable ?

the Eurofighter deal definitely targets the pre-production batch of F-24G with the American engine . As some 23 billion dollars worth of contract to buy F-16s have gone sour already with me already confused if they don't want the new jets or American modernization kits . If no new F-16s , they can talk bad about the economics of a truncated programme to buy engines with no future and stuff . Turn a page back or so to remember Indonesians claiming they might buy 100 . Like not that ı believed or anything but Potemkin would do great in the fighter jet marketing of these days . Echo chamber insists the RAF will not stick its Tranche 1 jets . Those they can't find a job for . After specifically avoiding the thing about donating them to Ukraine because somebody did not sign the dotted line for bearing the costs a lá Trump who reached 500 billions when the American outlay was under 100 or something . Some poster in the echo chamber says those ignorant of the Defence scenery should not pollute the thread with their ignorance and then like claims the Eurofighter has a combat radius of 2800 kilometers without external fuel . Like when the internet claims 1800 with 3 drop tanks .

and the best part is that the Syrian jihadists or the Shara Goverment has demanded military support against ISIL who are apparently still around if you believe the claims and of course you already deduced this is for protection from Israel . At a time Germany flips 9 times in the air to look like supporting Israel and has extracted written guarantees that New Turkey will not use Eurofighters in the Aegean and no similar papers are not around the safeguard Israeli ethnic cleansing campaigns on multiple grounds . This in a week New Turkey introduces Steel Dome , a copy of something in name and whatever , declares a 800 kilometers capable surface to surface missile and claims a hypersonic variant of the same and brags 34 warships are in simultaneous construction . Like New Turkey is doing so good ? Do we need the Eurofighter ? Uh uh ...


edit: Corrected the number of deaths .
 
Last edited:
that we are not paying anything ...

this regular complaint about r16 posts is that supposedly ı spam , writing stuff that are not related at all to what other people talk about . Longtime members will remember the refrain that Trump had given New Turkey to Teresa May as a gift , during the Great Anglosaxon Action of Brexit . A colony , for Britain to freely rob , out in the open and so on . This is the Boeing thread ? You will see . Like London has finally managed to sell the Eurofighter to its finest colony , the youngest Arab nation of New Turkey . Rumours supposedly claim 8 billion euros for 20 jets , in a total package worth about 10,7 billions with Qatar and some other country buying 24 more jets . Not ours but
New Turkey's jets might be or might not be second hand , too . For 400 million euros a piece , we could have have the B-21 . Nope , you don't know Trump , he would do that , just show the money and so on . Congragulate and celebrate , laugh at the remark that this isn't over yet .
 

Boeing officially off the hook for criminal charges in deadly crashes that killed 346 people​

Boeing to pay hundreds of millions as part of non-prosecution deal, with $444.5M US going to victims' fund

A U.S. judge on Thursday approved a request by the Justice Department to dismiss a criminal case against Boeing stemming from two fatal 737 MAX plane crashes that killed 346 people including 18 Canadians.

However, Judge Reed O'Connor, of the U.S. District Court in Fort Worth, Texas, said he disagreed with the Justice Department that dismissing the case is in the public interest but said he did not have authority to reject the decision. He added the government's deal with Boeing "fails to secure the necessary accountability to ensure the safety of the flying public."

Boeing did not immediately comment.

In September, O'Connor held a three-hour hearing to consider objections to the deal, questioning the government's decision to drop a requirement that Boeing face oversight from an independent monitor for three years and instead hire a compliance consultant.

He heard anguished objections from relatives of some of those killed in the crashes in Indonesia in 2018 and Ethiopia in 2019 to the non-prosecution agreement.

Ahead of that hearing, Toronto native Chris Moore in a statement characterized the non-prosecution as a "ludicrous plea bargain." Moore's adult daughter Danielle was among 18 Canadian citizens and 149 passengers killed when the Max 8 plane bound for Nairobi crashed shortly following takeoff from the Ethiopian capital of Addis Ababa in January 2019.

Moore said the deal shielded "the rich and powerful at the expense of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for the people."

There were no Canadians among the 181 passengers who died in the October 2018 crash on a domestic flight inside Indonesia. Sixteen crew members in all also died in the Indonesia and Ethiopia disasters.

Judge critical of the deal​

O'Connor on Thursday said the government's position is "Boeing committed crimes sufficient to justify prosecution, failed to remedy its fraudulent behaviour on its own during the (deferred prosecution agreement) which justified a guilty plea and the imposition of an independent monitor, but now Boeing will remedy that dangerous culture by retaining a consultant of its own choosing."

The government argued Boeing has improved and the Federal Aviation Administration is providing enhanced oversight.

Boeing and the government argued O'Connor had no choice but to dismiss the case.

O'Connor said in 2023 that "Boeing's crime may properly be considered the deadliest corporate crime in U.S. history," and it appeared at one point last year the company might face charges.

Under the non-prosecution deal, Boeing agreed to pay an additional $444.5 US million into a crash victims' fund to be divided evenly per victim of the two fatal 737 MAX crashes, on top of a new $243.6 million fine and over $455 million to strengthen the company's compliance, safety, and quality programs.

Boeing has negotiated pre-trial settlements in most of the dozens of wrongful death lawsuits filed after the Ethiopian crash, including with Canadian Paul Njoroge. The Toronto resident lost his wife, three children and mother-in-law in the crash.

Details of the settlements were confidential and not disclosed.

Lawyers say less than a dozen lawsuits remain unresolved, though one trial began this week.

An eight-person jury in Chicago is to assess damages related to the the death of passenger Shikha Garg, a United Nations consultant. Unless a settlement is reached first, the panel will decide compensation for matters such as burial expenses, loss of income, and grief suffered by immediate family members.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/boeing-criminal-case-agreement-9.6969078
 

Boeing officially off the hook for criminal charges in deadly crashes that killed 346 people​

Boeing to pay hundreds of millions as part of non-prosecution deal, with $444.5M US going to victims' fund

A U.S. judge on Thursday approved a request by the Justice Department to dismiss a criminal case against Boeing stemming from two fatal 737 MAX plane crashes that killed 346 people including 18 Canadians.

However, Judge Reed O'Connor, of the U.S. District Court in Fort Worth, Texas, said he disagreed with the Justice Department that dismissing the case is in the public interest but said he did not have authority to reject the decision. He added the government's deal with Boeing "fails to secure the necessary accountability to ensure the safety of the flying public."

Boeing did not immediately comment.

In September, O'Connor held a three-hour hearing to consider objections to the deal, questioning the government's decision to drop a requirement that Boeing face oversight from an independent monitor for three years and instead hire a compliance consultant.

He heard anguished objections from relatives of some of those killed in the crashes in Indonesia in 2018 and Ethiopia in 2019 to the non-prosecution agreement.

Ahead of that hearing, Toronto native Chris Moore in a statement characterized the non-prosecution as a "ludicrous plea bargain." Moore's adult daughter Danielle was among 18 Canadian citizens and 149 passengers killed when the Max 8 plane bound for Nairobi crashed shortly following takeoff from the Ethiopian capital of Addis Ababa in January 2019.

Moore said the deal shielded "the rich and powerful at the expense of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for the people."

There were no Canadians among the 181 passengers who died in the October 2018 crash on a domestic flight inside Indonesia. Sixteen crew members in all also died in the Indonesia and Ethiopia disasters.

Judge critical of the deal​

O'Connor on Thursday said the government's position is "Boeing committed crimes sufficient to justify prosecution, failed to remedy its fraudulent behaviour on its own during the (deferred prosecution agreement) which justified a guilty plea and the imposition of an independent monitor, but now Boeing will remedy that dangerous culture by retaining a consultant of its own choosing."

The government argued Boeing has improved and the Federal Aviation Administration is providing enhanced oversight.

Boeing and the government argued O'Connor had no choice but to dismiss the case.

O'Connor said in 2023 that "Boeing's crime may properly be considered the deadliest corporate crime in U.S. history," and it appeared at one point last year the company might face charges.

Under the non-prosecution deal, Boeing agreed to pay an additional $444.5 US million into a crash victims' fund to be divided evenly per victim of the two fatal 737 MAX crashes, on top of a new $243.6 million fine and over $455 million to strengthen the company's compliance, safety, and quality programs.

Boeing has negotiated pre-trial settlements in most of the dozens of wrongful death lawsuits filed after the Ethiopian crash, including with Canadian Paul Njoroge. The Toronto resident lost his wife, three children and mother-in-law in the crash.

Details of the settlements were confidential and not disclosed.

Lawyers say less than a dozen lawsuits remain unresolved, though one trial began this week.

An eight-person jury in Chicago is to assess damages related to the the death of passenger Shikha Garg, a United Nations consultant. Unless a settlement is reached first, the panel will decide compensation for matters such as burial expenses, loss of income, and grief suffered by immediate family members.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/boeing-criminal-case-agreement-9.6969078
These crashes did not take place in America. Why is the US Justice Department making any decision?
 
truly large compensation cases are in America . Everyone sues an American company in America . One might try that in some other country and win the case too . Then America bombs the said country . There are risks and stuff ...
 
truly large compensation cases are in America . Everyone sues an American company in America . One might try that in some other country and win the case too . Then America bombs the said country . There are risks and stuff ...
Yeah, I guess I can totally see Trump deciding to bomb Indonesia and/or Ethiopia if they make the wrong choice about who to prosecute.
 
Because the crime - the reckless disregard for lives in search of profit - happened in the US.
That is not actually an explicit crime? What they did was sell a dangerous airplane and not tell people about how it worked. They did that all over the world.

I cannot think of another case where the prosecution of the crime would be limited to where the object was created. Should we only prosecute heroin possession in Afghanistan? Should we have only prosecuted the deiselgate thing in Germany?
 
That is not actually an explicit crime? What they did was sell a dangerous airplane and not tell people about how it worked. They did that all over the world.

I cannot think of another case where the prosecution of the crime would be limited to where the object was created. Should we only prosecute heroin possession in Afghanistan? Should we have only prosecuted the deiselgate thing in Germany?

Oh, I know it's not a crime, just wishing it was (and that the management of Boeing were facing life sentances for the killings they commited). And, I'm not saying they shouldn't be prosecuted elsewhere as well. Just that it does make sense for them to be prosecuted in America.
 
Oh, I know it's not a crime, just wishing it was (and that the management of Boeing were facing life sentances for the killings they commited). And, I'm not saying they shouldn't be prosecuted elsewhere as well. Just that it does make sense for them to be prosecuted in America.
Sure, they should be prosecuted in America, it is only chance that the crashes happened elsewhere and it is the dishonesty that is the problem.

I do not understand why the possibility of any other legal system having any say in the matter does not even get mentioned by the media or anyone.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom