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The Celts

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Gazebo, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    Should keep plantations getting 2 culture. Feels bad to lose the forest bonus so it's a decent tradeoff.
     
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I've already implemented this change:
    1:c5food::c5gold: on forest
    1:c5food::c5production: on jungle
    1:c5culture::c5science: on camps and plantations
    2:c5culture: on Ceilidh hall
    Gives the total non-faith yield spread and weakens jungle compared to the current version. Buffs camps.
    The overlap with Longhouse is a bit unfortunate, but oh well.
     
    stii and LifeOfBrian like this.
  3. Drakle

    Drakle King

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    Where has this been implemented? A personal mod? Because the latest version still shows something different.
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  5. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    P-Dan, can you check if the border-growth pantheon is working correctly? I'm playing only VP and I tried it out, but didn't get plus 3 border growth in my cities.
     
  6. InkAxis

    InkAxis Prince

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    I think border growth points don't show up in the UI which is unfortunate. Is that why maybe?
     
  7. stii

    stii King

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    Looks good. Still powerful as a civ's ability should be but less gives you literally everything.
     
  8. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    InkAxis, I also checked between turns to see how much progress would be made towards border growth and it didn't register the plus 3 from the pantheon :/
     
  9. Histomen

    Histomen Chieftain

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    How do you all go about doing a culture win with the celts? I've been having a hard time on Immortal, epic, standard. The likes of the Maya, Ghandi, and Napolean are giving me such a hard time. 90% of the time i go cennarous
     
  10. Thibix Magnus

    Thibix Magnus Warlord

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    wouldn't there be a balanced way to keep a yield on un-improved forests? It is a nice nod to vanilla, it feels quite immersive and unique, and offers an interesting trade-off. People find it too strong now, but the yields on un-improved forest are not currently disapperaring on improvement. Maybe if it does it would be enough?
     
  11. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    Histomen, I think Celts aren't that good for a culture win, but if you're hell bent, I'd recommend taking Tradition, staying small (let's say 4, max 5 cities) and then playing them like you'd play any other tourism civ. Perhaps with the difference that I'd pick Way of the Pilgrim and try to pick up extra culture and tourism that way if I can't get Divine Inheritance as my Founder.
     
    Histomen likes this.
  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Epona's yields scaling with Era is going to be fixed with the new patch. All credit to @HungryForFood.

    For a refresher, here are all the Celtic Pantheons as of right now:
    Spoiler Celt Pantheons :

    Bran, the Sleeping Guardian
    +25% increase to :c5rangedstrength:Ranged Combat Strength
    +25% :c5food: Growth in all Cities.
    +15:c5culture:Culture and :c5gold:Gold when a :c5citizen:Citizen is born, scaling with Era.
    +1:c5happy: Happiness to Following City
    +5 :c5food:Food from Ceilidh Hall.

    Cernunnos, the Horned Stag
    +1 :c5food: Food and :c5gold: Gold from Forests, +1 :c5food: Food and +1:c5production:Production from Jungles. +1 :c5culture:Culture and :c5science:Science from Camps and Plantations.
    +2:c5culture: Culture from Ceilidh Hall.

    Dagda, the All-Father
    +1 :c5culture: Culture, :c5gold:Gold, :c5production:Production, and :c5science:Science in your Capital, and for every 4 Followers of your Pantheon in owned cities.
    +2 :c5happy: Happiness from Ceilidh Hall.

    Epona, the Great Mare
    +3:ack: Border Growth in every City. Receive +10:c5science:Science, :c5culture:Culture, and :c5food: Food when your Borders expand, scaling with Era.
    +5:ack: Border Growth from Ceilidh Hall.

    Lugh, the Skilled One
    +2 :c5culture:Culture, :c5science:Science, :c5food:Food, and :c5gold: Gold in Cities with a Specialist.
    +10% Wonder :c5production:Production
    +3 :c5production: Production from Ceilidh Hall.

    Mannanan, Son of the Sea
    +3 :c5food: Food, +3 :c5production: Production, and +3 :c5gold:Gold in coastal Cities.
    1:c5production:Production and 1:c5gold:Gold for every 2:c5citizen:Citizens working Sea tiles in your Cities.
    +2 Great Admiral Points from Ceilidh Hall.

    Morrigan, the Harbinger
    Earn :c5gold: Gold, :c5culture:Culture, and :c5goldenage:Golden Age Points if you kill a unit.
    +5 HP healed per turn in Friendly Territory.
    +2 Great General Points from Ceilidh Hall.

    Nuada, the Silver-Handed
    +15% :c5gold:Gold and :c5science:Science from :c5happy:WLTKDs
    +3 :c5gold:Gold, :c5science:Science, and :c5goldenage:Golden Age Points for active active :trade:Trade Route to or from the City, and every Unique Luxury Resource on Empire.
    +5 :c5gold: Gold from Ceilidh Hall.

    Ogma, the Learned
    +1 :c5science: Science for every 4 :c5citizen:Citizens in a city. +3 :c5science: Science, :c5culture:Culture, :c5greatperson:Great Scientist Points, and :c5greatperson:Great Artist Points in the :c5capital: Capital. +1:c5production:Production from :greatwork:Great Works
    +5 :c5science: Science from Ceilidh Hall.

    Rhiannon the Sovereign
    +2 :c5culture:Culture in every City. +1 :c5gold: Gold and :c5production: Production from every improved resource.
    +5 :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points from Ceilidh Hall.


    There have been some new belief tables added, so here are the available, unused belief abilities:
    • Yields on construction
    • Yields for every pantheon in game
    • Gold/science converters
    • Yields on city conquest
    • Specific faith purchases (work boats or workers, for instance)
    • Yields for Unimproved tiles
    • Increased yields from :trade:internal Trade Routes (limited to :c5food:from :c5food:ITRs and :c5production:from :c5production:ITRs)
    • Yields from Pillaging non-Road improvements (Era scaling can be added/removed)
    • Yields from completing non-Road improvements (Era scaling can be added/removed)
    • Free Promotions from Beliefs (specific to cities, comparable to promotions from buildings like the Ikanda)
    I am very excited for these new additions, since it gives us more tools to make the Celt pantheons even more different from the base pantheons.
    For instance
    • Lugh could be given the improvement bonus, scaling with era, and have the wonder bonus removed. This bonus is more fitting for the many-skilled one.
    • The Morrigan could have the pillage bonus, scaling with era, and have the healing bonus removed. A more aggressive, destructive bonus would be more fitting for the Morrigan than a healing bonus.
    • The healing bonus could be moved to the Dagda, giving it a little more oomph that differentiates it from God-King, and is a little nod to his cauldron that feeds men and never runs empty, and his mace which gives power over life and death.
    I think bonuses to unimproved stuff is a weird incentive to put on early pantheons. Check out my More Beliefs mod that is going to add an Enhancer that boosts unimproved features.
     
  13. stii

    stii King

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    Lots of these seems interesting and cool.

    Free Promotions seems like it adds something nice and different to warmongering, you want things to help you conquer a lot more than bonuses from conquering.

    Yields from completing non-Road improvements seems like it might have an issue where workers would rebuild pointless improvements just for the bonus which would add a lot of fiddly micromanagement.

    Yields from Pillaging non-Road improvements seems good, my concern would be it might be too good. The ideology that gives this ability is pretty powerful and much later. That said it would just be a case of getting the numbers right.
     
  14. InkAxis

    InkAxis Prince

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    I like these new ideas, but I feel like we need to be careful not to just be adding things for the sake of adding things. Like giving the construction bonus to Lugh would make it a bit all over the place, currently it seems pretty tall focused so changing that would make it seem unfocused. But otherwise I agree.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    You're right, the improvement completion bonus should probably never scale with era, so it can't be cycled and abused.
    Could still give Lugh the bonus on construction instead.
    Or maybe just keep it as the wonder bonus, since there are relatively few "tall" beliefs.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  16. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    How does "Epona, the Great Mare" compare with god of expanse?
    and is it a good alternative for wide/warfare instead of Rhiannon and Morrigan?
    Mannanan, Son of the Sea looks like a strong early game alternative but zero interest in non coastal is a bit meh.
     
  17. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Epona performs best when used with tradition.
     
  18. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    I went for it and ... didnt feel like a bad option for authority.
    It helps to counteract the low science output of authority in the early game, adding culture and kickstarts new cities with extra food and border growth.
     
  19. DeAnno

    DeAnno Prince

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    Epona has a long term issue that it doesn't give -25% BG Cost like Expanse does, so stacking modifiers with it is much harder. Tradition's super cheap tiles mitigate this to an extent, you might even want to just do a pit stop for Sovereignty while using it.
     
  20. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    Yes the flat border growth makes it stagnate (compared to the %based), which gets a new boost with UB.
    The culture and science yields feels strong.
     

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