The Cold War...

Where would you have rather lived in 1972? (Public Poll)


  • Total voters
    94
Quite a number of questions here... I'll try to answer to all of them in brief.
There are similar enough jobs that don't involve feces...
In short, being worker was not enough to get high salary. Many people were going for a several years to Northern regions, earning some decent sum there and returning home. I don't remember exact details, but generally to get high salary in USSR you'd have to be either very skilled or very hard working. Of course world class cardiac surgeon would be getting much more money than plumber.
8 years more school...
You didn't have to pay anything for it. Instead, you get accomodation (usually a dorm) and stipend, enough to fulfill basic needs, without luxury. If you also getting help from your parents - you got the point, many people would choose this way especially because after school they can get the work which they like.
Let me ask, were there any doctor shortages?
If I remember correctly, there was some shortage for teachers in countryside schools. Not for doctors, but I have to verify this.
Seems like I'd choose an easier route (hell, I did even with the knowledge in America I'd be rich if I became a doctor).
Probably because you would have to take a credit to pay for education and pay it for decades.
Also, let's say you were becoming a doctor, or wanting to... and you failed out? What was your fate?
Nothing special. You can go study to another place, or become a plumber. For men, failing to graduate usually meant going to army first.
Who decided who became doctors? When did the selection process begin?
Anyone who wished to, and smart enough to get education, could become a doctor - no special allowance was needed. You couldn't work anywhere you wanted though - you would have to choose from places where specialists of your category were needed.

Fair enough . I'm not actually very good at expressing myself in the more serious threads . What I'm getting at is that I find the "simple worker" idea either overly idealized (amongst these simple workers are rapists , thieves , liars etc just like in all segments of society) and paternalistic .

I'm a workin' man like most people and don't necessarily want to be lumped into this group of "simple workers " . If anything , I'm working my ass off at the moment so I can actually ensure I don't spend my life taking a cheque from the man . Not all "simple workers" actually want to live their lives like this forever and I suspect that the far left kind of thinks I do and are helping me out .

( awaits justified "I'm not sure I understood what you mean" reply) :)
Ok, it seems there is something wrong with expression "simple workers" - I didn't mean anything offensive or to put all of workers in the same category. I meant that people on the pictures were not pre-selected to present only the richest from them, there are also people of common professions, such as truck driver and construction worker. That was the whole idea, to show people of different professions, lifestyles, etc.
 
3-4/20-something. I would think industry would make a larger employment share in the economy.
Ok, I guess that was my fault. I should balance the pictures better, according to employment shares, and probably exclude kids :)
I can post more workers pictures, maybe later today.
All that tells me is that the technical professions earn almost the same as manual labor.
Or vice versa. I'm not saying such model is perfect, or it could not be done more effectively. This is how it was.
 
It sounds ideal , but is it ? When a guy is performing open heart surgery on me , I'd much rather have the guy who is only doing it for the money but rose to the top of his field because of this motive , do the job . I'll pass on the wide eyed idealist who will most likely drop a Junior Mint into my guts.
And of course it's a binary choice between Stony McHardcash and Goodwill O'Clumsybuckets. The tragedy of the human condition, eh?
 
And of course it's a binary choice between Stony McHardcash and Goodwill O'Clumsybuckets. The tragedy of the human condition, eh?

Well no it's not a simple binary choice , you made it into one. I was responding to the assertion that by removing getting rich as a motive for people to get into various fields of endeavor , society is better off because people will enter into vocations based on passion , not dollars . My example shows some reasonable flaws to this assertion , that's all .

I did lol at your hypothetical doctors though
 
Well, teachers and doctors in USSR were underpaid, as they are in modern Russia. It was broadly recognized even back then - you can hear such assertions in Soviet movies of 1970-s.
 
Well no it's not a simple binary choice , you made it into one. I was responding to the assertion that by removing getting rich as a motive for people to get into various fields of endeavor , society is better off because people will enter into vocations based on passion , not dollars . My example shows some reasonable flaws to this assertion , that's all .

I did lol at your hypothetical doctors though

Except that they weren't reasonable. You're drawing an equal sign between a world-class, highly-experienced surgeon and a trainee quack.
 
As promised, more pictures. These ones may be not as interesting as first set, but with more emphasis on daily life scenes. Some of them may be from 80-s.

Spoiler :
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Anyone who wished to, and smart enough to get education, could become a doctor - no special allowance was needed. You couldn't work anywhere you wanted though - you would have to choose from places where specialists of your category were needed.
In addition - when young specialist or officer starting to work somewhere, they often lived in hostel for the first period, and after that they were getting a free apartment with size depending on how many people there are in his (or her) family. My parents got an average-size 3-room flat (size is approx. equivalent of modern 2-bedroom apartment) for a family of 3 adults and 2 kids, in the second half of 70-s. My uncle's family got even larger apartment in Moscow, in 1980-s (and I believe they had to wait longer). Today its price is somewhere between 300,000-500,000 USD.
 
What's this?
Vending machines, selling sparkling water.
1 glass - 1 kopeika (0.01 rouble), with syrup - 3 kopeek
Also there was Pepsi-Cola:

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Typical salary - 150-250 roubles, bread loaf ~20 kopeek. Sausage 2.20/kg. Prices were fixed for years.
 
When do we get to see pictures of the daily life of anyone advocating regime change, freedom of the warsaw pact people's, democracy and freedom of speech or anyone pointing out any of the flaws in the Soviet system?

How about the daily lives of those in the dungeons of the KGB? The resettlement camp(ex death camps) in Siberia?

Why don't you show us a picture of a healthy political opposition protest or rally outside the Kremlin in the 70s?
 
When do we get to see pictures of the daily life of anyone advocating regime change, freedom of the warsaw pact people's, democracy and freedom of speech or anyone pointing out any of the flaws in the Soviet system?

How about the daily lives of those in the dungeons of the KGB? The resettlement camp(ex death camps) in Siberia?

Why don't you show us a picture of a healthy political opposition protest or rally outside the Kremlin in the 70s?

I don't think anyone is denying that the Soviet Union wasn't a horrible oppressive government on political dissent and opposition. What the pictures were trying to prove is that for a while, the U.S.S.R in many (but not all) places was just like everywhere else. Hardworking people who want to work hard, get a pay check, get an education, enjoy simple life pleasures, a few luxuries here and there, marry, settle down, spit out a few kids, watch them grow and live ripe.

Singapore from the 1960s to the 1990s (your friendly Pro-US 'democracy') was also an oppressive one-party state who stifled opposition, jailed dissenters, pushed out propaganda, censored media, generally intolerant or dismissive of state criticism.
Yet Singapore also had the exact same people depicted in those pictures.

Sure Singapore wasn't as brutal as the USSR, but Singapore held her weight in repression too. If you can imagine that Singaporeans who keep quiet about the government can lead lives similar to your average American, than you can imagine that Soviets who keep quiet about the government can live lives similar to your average American as well.
 
When do we get to see pictures of the daily life of anyone advocating regime change, freedom of the warsaw pact people's, democracy and freedom of speech
Those were the photo of usual people on the streets, I have no idea about their political preferences. Unless you imply that all people who were advocating regime change were in prisons - well, incarceration rate in USSR was pretty high, but still much lower than it is in modern USA.

How about the daily lives of those in the dungeons of the KGB?
I don't have pictures, but you can imagine how every day thousands of their bodies were milled in gigantic meatgrinder and thrown away in Moscow river. At least people who were advocating regime change say so.
 
Vending machines, selling sparkling water.
1 glass - 1 kopeika (0.01 rouble), with syrup - 3 kopeek
...with everyone using the same glass. :goodjob:
EDIT: Also, the pel'meni-making picture and excercise-at-work pictures are :goodjob:

Anyway, I would kill for this:
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All that tells me is that the technical professions earn almost the same as manual labor.
Actually, good manual laborer would usually make significantly more (like, double or triple) than your average white-collar profession.
EDIT2: Some "before and after" pictures of Tallinn:
http://wildernesscat.livejournal.com/393168.html
Like:
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Please tell me you are joking. :ack:
Not at all :D
http://readrussia.com/blog/made-in-russia/00135/
Beginning in the mid-20th century, self-service soda fountains could be found everywhere in Russia—on the side of the street, at shopping centers, at farmer’s markets. One kopeck bought you a glass of straight seltzer water, while three kopecks bought you a shot of flavored syrup, plus the water, fizzled into the cup on the spot. Conceivably, you finished your beverage in a few gulps while standing, replaced the glass, and walked on. Placed upside down, the glass was then rinsed (via nifty contraption that spritzed its insides with cold tap water), and stood ready for the next customer. The glass itself was only replaced occasionally. Germaphobes need not apply.
EDIT: Another picture:
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