The Community Deity Game #12 - Byzantium

[Shark Diver]

Frustrated but not defeated.....yet.....t194

Spoiler :

My war with Lizzy ended after 10 turns. My choice. She didn't do much but her being allied with every single CS started wreaking havoc on my TR's.

I faith bought 5 uni's but don't have the pop to work specialists in most cities. So I turned my trade routes internal, which slowed the economy big time. I'm still 8th in science, significantly behind, and can only hope my beeline to Schools will allow me to faith buy all 7 and maybe then I can catch up. 7 city Tradition is brutal, as hard building 6 settlers slows growth and my focus on finishing Piety has kept me from getting to the good parts of Tradition. Constantinople is only up to pop 9 (yuck), but I built an aqueduct and finally started sending food there (no reason to waste a caravan earlier when you have to build 6 settlers).

After stealing Astronomy, I diverted tech to grab Frigates, which would soon pay off....

Dido's DOF expired, she then promptly denounced me, then DOW'd rather quickly. I have only been able to upgrade 1 Galleas due to finances, but 2 XBows, 1 Pike, 2 Galleases, and 1 Frigate has been more than enough to hold off Dido for now. I really haven't had time to build any more units, though I'll try to sneak out a couple of more Frigates shortly and maybe I can take Carthage with a counter-attack sometime in the not-to-distant future.

England and Dutch have already taken Order, and I'm 20 turns from Oxfording Radio. It's bad enough that I got a very slow start, but England appears to be on steroids. I'll have to wait until at least Battleships before going after her. Hopefully with a lot of upgraded units and some planes, I can do some damage. It looks like she settled an island that will make for a very nice airbase in the future.

If I can accomplish those two goals, I'll try to figure out the rest of the map, but I'm thinking right now that I'll not be able to catch up in tech in time and I am not going to have great production to churn out later units.

I'm predicting I won't win, but there's still a chance. I do have 2 GP's saved for future capital conversion, as I'm producing more faith than I know what to do with.

Tradition was a bad decision for me, as the cheaper culture costs and cheaper settlers (not to mention happiness bonus) from Liberty would have been much more helpful.

Resigned t234

Spoiler :

I finally got to Ideologies at t230. Freedom was wide open, so I took it, hoping the FL's would tip the scales against Dido. Lizzy DOW'd her with me, and I have two ranged Frigates, but my only melee unit is still the original Warrior > Pike. Sadly, my unhappiness immediately got to -22 so I had to waste a GW to use the happiness from specialists. This means FL's are 30+ turns away.....ouch.

Just too much to overcome. I resigned.

2nd WC came around and two of my favorites passed. I get a silver in WF (yuck....silver with 7 cities?), and +3 Culture from Wonders (and for the first time ever, Wonder-monger me has built exactly zero....although I was 20 turns from PT when I quite).

Too much to overcome. I could have spent another 100+ turns, but doubt I'd get the tech lead in time to stop Lizzy or William.

No coal. Only 1 archeological spot. Ouch and double-ouch.

Too much to overcome.

I'll try it again, this time with 6-7 city Liberty > Piety. Perhaps a Liberty > Honor. I was too strong in religion, so maybe I'll avoid that this time.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Has no one beaten this map? Have we all been stumped? Wow, CFC needs to step up their game. I'm gonna give this monster a try soon, hopefully this week. If we can't win, maybe we should shoot for the fastest losing time?

 

[gobbledydook]

I think we should forget about the achievements and just worry about actually beating the game.

 

[donkeyfish]

We´re filled with hubris from the last one - its all your fault Wild_Woojsha!

I actually take some shameless comfort in that others also struggle with this one...

 

[Sclb]

That's because people are busy with other maps, or keep messing with non-optimal strategies. I myself haven't even finished the Venice map, it's so tedious even though it's extremely easy, I might just skip it since it's getting boring.

 

[Redaxe]

Has no one beaten this map? Have we all been stumped? Wow, CFC needs to step up their game. I'm gonna give this monster a try soon, hopefully this week. If we can't win, maybe we should shoot for the fastest losing time?

Sorry im a bit behind on a study project, like always I over-design websites and now i'm stuck with a gigantic cesspit of html and css to try and get working.

 

[beetle]

I think we should forget about the achievements and just worry about actually beating the game.

I am going to have to settle for SV myself. I was able to clear the continent with the UU this time though.

EDIT: Nope, lost by SV to the faraway runaway on T340, and I would not have been quite fast enough for my previous game (T347) in any case. I am going to see if I cannot eke out a Diplo VC, except that money has been such a problem. Also, I was not getting enough policies to fill out both Rationalism and Piety, so I think this time I will not worry about anything more than the Rationalism opener.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Well I made it 98 turns... This map is really hard. I was wondering what would happen with a 3 city piety start, whether I could muscle through it or not. I stole 1 worker and have not even come close to where I normally am at 100 turns. Really not a good game, I think its time to restart and go with conventional methods instead of silliness. Good luck to whoever can get all points on this... They are a true master.

 

[DanQuayle]

Early game update.

Spoiler :

Hardest game I ever played, I think. Third attempt and a few reloads.
Dido had largest army, but mostly a land army. She was the one who DoW'd, just as I was starting to build my own army. Cities, Dromons with Targeting promotions, a few Cataphracts and one CB upgraded from a scarcher took care of it. I had naval superiority.

Tips if you use my city placement:
5 cities is the bare minimum, my army was at supply cap fast
Build a lot of Dromons in Nicaea
Don't let Dido ally Mombasa, it will screw over your reinforcements



Got 3rd Religion, Monasteries taken by the first one.
Initiation Rites, Pagodas, Asceticism, Itinerant Preachers, Church Property

Just found out that none of the capitals on the other continent are coastal...

 

[consentient]

If no one has beaten this map, that seems like a good reason to come out of retirement and give it a shot, no?

 

[Shark Diver]

If no one has beaten this map, that seems like a good reason to come out of retirement and give it a shot, no?

Yes!

I'm giving it a 4th shot.

 

[Shark Diver]

4th time might be the charm. This game is going quite well.

Thru t100

Spoiler :

Yeah, having a ton of map knowledge really does come in handy.

I took the Settler East to settle the holy mountain. Stupid game expanded to the fish before the NW, so I actually got 4th pantheon (Goddess of Festivals.....DF was long gone), which is ok. I decided going into this game to not prioritize religion and the achievements, but instead focus on actually winning this freakin game. Religion and achievements I will worry about later on.

I DOW'd Dido on t10 with a worker steal. She did get to settle that West Coast river spot, but I'm determined to not let her expand any further North (or East). Ruins were very fortuitous, with 2 culture, 1 Scarcher upgrade, Pottery and Calendar. Sent a scout swimming around t90 and he got to become a Scarcher too.

I got 2nd religion after Protestantism had taken both Cathedrals and Monasteries (dirty bastard/b*tch). So I took +100 for each city adopting Shark Diving, and then grabbed Pagodas and then the key to the good start, God-King. With God-King, I was able to build Oracle and used Liberty GE to pop Petra on t82.

Culture path was Tradition opener, Left side of Liberty, finish Liberty, open Piety. I'll likely divert to Commerce or Exploration instead of going deeper into Piety for now as Jesuit Education is gone. Maybe I can complete the tree late in the game.

I had given peace to Dido around the t50's, as I really needed the GPT and BPT from a newly built caravan. That took care of economy and science issues from earlier attempts, but happiness would remain a challenge through t100. Dido was not as friendly as I would have hoped for, only giving me 6 GPT for some Incense. I also spent about 20 turns playing Red Rover with a Carthaginian settler trying to keep her from settling the Northern Coast (successfully).

I built a settler right after Petra and sent it to a hill on the North Coast next to the Cotton, and Initiation Rights got me just enough gold to immediately purchase a Library (with 1 gold to spare) so NC wasn't delayed (it will finish t104).

I've met Harold and Lizzy (she's up to 4 Wonders), but only a few CS (Lizzy already has 2 of them).

The plan for now will be to get my 5th city up in the NE corner to grab the 6 iron and to ensure no sneaky settlers get "lost" and think my continent is a safe place to settle. Note to AI's: IT ISN"T....STAY AWAY!.

I'm beelining Uni's now and may try to built GMoD now that I've opened Piety. I'll be bringing all units home soon, upgrading to CB's, spamming Dromons, and just focusing on building infrastructure. If I can focus on science (and I have 2 Observatory cities), I'll try to make a Frigate rush at someone (maybe even Lizzy). After uni's, I'll get XBows and send my caravans internal and perhaps start a war of attrition with Dido. CBows won't stand up to her pachyderms, but I think I can push her pretty hard with XBows and Dromons. It helps that her cities are relatively exposed if I can get someone to Range/Logistics.

I don't think I can settle in the NW corner to get the horses, so there will be a shortage of Cataphracts (no loss this late in the game).

Nobody has claimed Mosques yet, so I may enhance instead of buying the next Pagoda and see if I can get that.

This figures to be a science focused, late war type of a game, but I've got a much better infrastructure going than in previous attempts, so maybe I can prevent a runaway. Constantinople is looking like a nice capital, but I'm going to have to rely on a lot of internal TR's. I guess that's ok seeing as how the coastlines are probably going to be pretty treacherous for Cargo Ships for awhile. I wish there was something I could do about Lizzy's CS dominance, but it doesn't look good.

Prediction: t300 Dom and maybe I can sneak in some achievements if I can get Mosques.

t180 Update:

Spoiler :

Well, I stayed focused on infrastructure and I was able to settle both NE and NW corners of the continent. Dido has remained peaceful even as I blocked settlers, denied Open Borders, and bought a few tiles. Around t170 she finally offered DoF, which I accepted figuring it'll take me about 30 turns to get Frigates online.

Only war was a token agreement with powerhouse (but not runaway) Suleiman against Japan. Japan sued for peace and gave me 4 GPT. Only a couple of civs were concerned about my early warmongering (I never fired a shot for the luv of gawd).

I got to propose WF and won it with ease. All 6 cities got their workshops up in time for me to build Ironworks on the turn it started and now I'm cranking production everywhere. Even the two late expos are putting out 15+ hammers already.

I took the top 2 tenets in Exploration before switching to Rationalism.

Happiness: has ranged from -2 to +5 over the past 50 turns and all Pagodas are up.

GPT: It got as high as 35 GPT but is now down to about 10 as I turned a couple of trade routes inward. I do have 4 allies now, so should be able to do some lump sum trades. I was able to buy one Workshop, so the GPT kinda saved the WF.

Science: BPT is up to 250 and only 2 cities are over pop 8 and working specialist slots. The science should go up pretty quickly as growth is not bad in all cities.

Religion: I won a CS quest for most faith, so I'm doing ok at about 45 FPT. I should have Grand Temple out in the next 10 turns (after finishing PT). Mosques was taken and I was beaten by a few turns for GMoD, so I enhanced with +2 culture from Temples and Defenders (Dido's backstab is inevitable.....that's why I'm not giving her a RA).

I just finished Navigation and am now beelining to Oxford Radio. 3 other civs are already in Industrial Era, but I'm hoping to be at least 3rd to Ideologies. I'm thinking I'll take Freedom if I'm first there as I'll have a good navy already but will need the FL's when I go warmongering.

Current plan is to get 10 Frigates up (that's all the iron I have) and then entice Dido to DoW me when the DoF expires.

Bottom line is I think this game is winnable as soon as I get tech lead (if I don't screw it up), but I'm not entirely sure I can pull off DomV given that the two leaders are naval powers. I'm keeping Science Victory as a backup plan in tact, so I'll follow that tech path and be late to Arties. In fact, there's a very nice island just north of the continent that would make a nice staging spot to invade England, but I don't want to slow my science down too much so I may not settle it......tough choice, since someone else likely will if I don't.

 

[consentient]

T146 Oh dear

Spoiler :

Things had been going well. A nice early-ish Frigate rush took care of the backstabber and would give me a chance to take another couple of capitals. Then I found out that Askia's capital is inland. So I'll have to proceed as I was doing, but it certainly won't be as quick or clean now.

 

[Shark Diver]

T146 Oh dear

Spoiler :

Things had been going well. A nice early-ish Frigate rush took care of the backstabber and would give me a chance to take another couple of capitals. Then I found out that Askia's capital is inland. So I'll have to proceed as I was doing, but it certainly won't be as quick or clean now.

Spoiler :

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that this will take Xcons to get to a couple of these caps. Sounds like you had a pretty strong start to be able to get to Navigation that quickly?

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

If no one has beaten this map, that seems like a good reason to come out of retirement and give it a shot, no?

Welcome Back and good luck!

4th time might be the charm. This game is going quite well.

Thru t100

Spoiler :

Yeah, having a ton of map knowledge really does come in handy.

I took the Settler East to settle the holy mountain. Stupid game expanded to the fish before the NW, so I actually got 4th pantheon (Goddess of Festivals.....DF was long gone), which is ok. I decided going into this game to not prioritize religion and the achievements, but instead focus on actually winning this freakin game. Religion and achievements I will worry about later on.

I DOW'd Dido on t10 with a worker steal. She did get to settle that West Coast river spot, but I'm determined to not let her expand any further North (or East). Ruins were very fortuitous, with 2 culture, 1 Scarcher upgrade, Pottery and Calendar. Sent a scout swimming around t90 and he got to become a Scarcher too.

I got 2nd religion after Protestantism had taken both Cathedrals and Monasteries (dirty bastard/b*tch). So I took +100 for each city adopting Shark Diving, and then grabbed Pagodas and then the key to the good start, God-King. With God-King, I was able to build Oracle and used Liberty GE to pop Petra on t82.

Culture path was Tradition opener, Left side of Liberty, finish Liberty, open Piety. I'll likely divert to Commerce or Exploration instead of going deeper into Piety for now as Jesuit Education is gone. Maybe I can complete the tree late in the game.

I had given peace to Dido around the t50's, as I really needed the GPT and BPT from a newly built caravan. That took care of economy and science issues from earlier attempts, but happiness would remain a challenge through t100. Dido was not as friendly as I would have hoped for, only giving me 6 GPT for some Incense. I also spent about 20 turns playing Red Rover with a Carthaginian settler trying to keep her from settling the Northern Coast (successfully).

I built a settler right after Petra and sent it to a hill on the North Coast next to the Cotton, and Initiation Rights got me just enough gold to immediately purchase a Library (with 1 gold to spare) so NC wasn't delayed (it will finish t104).

I've met Harold and Lizzy (she's up to 4 Wonders), but only a few CS (Lizzy already has 2 of them).

The plan for now will be to get my 5th city up in the NE corner to grab the 6 iron and to ensure no sneaky settlers get "lost" and think my continent is a safe place to settle. Note to AI's: IT ISN"T....STAY AWAY!.

I'm beelining Uni's now and may try to built GMoD now that I've opened Piety. I'll be bringing all units home soon, upgrading to CB's, spamming Dromons, and just focusing on building infrastructure. If I can focus on science (and I have 2 Observatory cities), I'll try to make a Frigate rush at someone (maybe even Lizzy). After uni's, I'll get XBows and send my caravans internal and perhaps start a war of attrition with Dido. CBows won't stand up to her pachyderms, but I think I can push her pretty hard with XBows and Dromons. It helps that her cities are relatively exposed if I can get someone to Range/Logistics.

I don't think I can settle in the NW corner to get the horses, so there will be a shortage of Cataphracts (no loss this late in the game).

Nobody has claimed Mosques yet, so I may enhance instead of buying the next Pagoda and see if I can get that.

This figures to be a science focused, late war type of a game, but I've got a much better infrastructure going than in previous attempts, so maybe I can prevent a runaway. Constantinople is looking like a nice capital, but I'm going to have to rely on a lot of internal TR's. I guess that's ok seeing as how the coastlines are probably going to be pretty treacherous for Cargo Ships for awhile. I wish there was something I could do about Lizzy's CS dominance, but it doesn't look good.

Prediction: t300 Dom and maybe I can sneak in some achievements if I can get Mosques.

View attachment 407259
View attachment 407260

t180 Update:

Spoiler :

Well, I stayed focused on infrastructure and I was able to settle both NE and NW corners of the continent. Dido has remained peaceful even as I blocked settlers, denied Open Borders, and bought a few tiles. Around t170 she finally offered DoF, which I accepted figuring it'll take me about 30 turns to get Frigates online.

Only war was a token agreement with powerhouse (but not runaway) Suleiman against Japan. Japan sued for peace and gave me 4 GPT. Only a couple of civs were concerned about my early warmongering (I never fired a shot for the luv of gawd).

I got to propose WF and won it with ease. All 6 cities got their workshops up in time for me to build Ironworks on the turn it started and now I'm cranking production everywhere. Even the two late expos are putting out 15+ hammers already.

I took the top 2 tenets in Exploration before switching to Rationalism.

Happiness: has ranged from -2 to +5 over the past 50 turns and all Pagodas are up.

GPT: It got as high as 35 GPT but is now down to about 10 as I turned a couple of trade routes inward. I do have 4 allies now, so should be able to do some lump sum trades. I was able to buy one Workshop, so the GPT kinda saved the WF.

Science: BPT is up to 250 and only 2 cities are over pop 8 and working specialist slots. The science should go up pretty quickly as growth is not bad in all cities.

Religion: I won a CS quest for most faith, so I'm doing ok at about 45 FPT. I should have Grand Temple out in the next 10 turns (after finishing PT). Mosques was taken and I was beaten by a few turns for GMoD, so I enhanced with +2 culture from Temples and Defenders (Dido's backstab is inevitable.....that's why I'm not giving her a RA).

I just finished Navigation and am now beelining to Oxford Radio. 3 other civs are already in Industrial Era, but I'm hoping to be at least 3rd to Ideologies. I'm thinking I'll take Freedom if I'm first there as I'll have a good navy already but will need the FL's when I go warmongering.

Current plan is to get 10 Frigates up (that's all the iron I have) and then entice Dido to DoW me when the DoF expires.

Bottom line is I think this game is winnable as soon as I get tech lead (if I don't screw it up), but I'm not entirely sure I can pull off DomV given that the two leaders are naval powers. I'm keeping Science Victory as a backup plan in tact, so I'll follow that tech path and be late to Arties. In fact, there's a very nice island just north of the continent that would make a nice staging spot to invade England, but I don't want to slow my science down too much so I may not settle it......tough choice, since someone else likely will if I don't.

View attachment 407261
View attachment 407262
View attachment 407263

How many turns did it take you to march down there? I may try that spot on my next try, or Redaxe's nice spot. I haven't decided yet, I SIP'd on my last try and it was horrible. I knew better than to do that...

Spoiler :

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3877&original=1&c=36 So I was looking this over and it looks like we can make it all the way to plastics, flight, ballistics, and combined arms before being forced to research compass. That's three points per capital if its timed right. The problem is, timing it right. So looking at the achievements again:

Clear your continent with mostly† only the UU, 3 points. - Cataphracts and dromons!

Each cap conquered before Compass, 3 points each. ‡ - Needs land bridge to get them all!

Each cap conquered before Navigation, 2 points each. ‡ - Very possible with proper tech-path.

Each cap conquered before Electronics, 1 point each. ‡

One point each for Reformation belief, completing Piety, and ending the game with your as World Religion in WC, 3 points available. - (Shouldn't be too hard to sneak these in near the end.)

One point for each rival Holy City converted at the end of the game, 4 points available.

End the game with your religion (by city count) as the plurality (1 point) or majority (2 points).


†Starting warrior, Scouts, scarchers, CS gifts are all allowed. No turn limit, and all units (including UU) may be upgraded. You can train other units (e.g. a caravel), but for the achievement, they must not be used on your starting continent.
‡Stacks with the first achievement above. No constraints on training units

As far as I can see, teching up to arty and cavaliers and swimming them across the sea is the path to full points. So for my next try, I will do what I can to not die while doing all of these. We shall see, I've only completed one of these so far so I don't have my hopes up too high. But there is only one way to improve, and that's to try it again until it works!

 

[consentient]

Sounds like you had a pretty strong start to be able to get to Navigation that quickly?

Spoiler :

On water maps I build 3 scouts at the start to act like Blocker Lemmings. This allowed me to settle wherever I wanted. There isn't much food, so Cargo Ships was the obvious gambit. The other good thing about blocking someone coming up a thin peninsula is that you can save the ruins for after you've picked up some techs, which allows for early Writing/Optics etc. I also stole 3 workers and 2 settlers from Dido, who also gave me DoF 5 turns after I made peace. So yeah, not a bad start, but I'm at T188 now and still only have 4 out of 8. :S

 

[beetle]

I gave up and just settled for a Diplomatic Victory. I am not sure why the faraway runaway gave me more time than when I was trying to squeak out an SV. Guess I bribed him into war more this time?

I did clear the content with only descendants of the UU, 3 points. But it took Frigates and that was the only capital I tried for, 1 point. I completed piety, but had only the 2nd most popular religion, and did not convert any Holy Cities, 2 points.

Welcome back Consentient!

 

[Shark Diver]

Spoiler :

On water maps I build 3 scouts at the start to act like Blocker Lemmings. This allowed me to settle wherever I wanted. There isn't much food, so Cargo Ships was the obvious gambit. The other good thing about blocking someone coming up a thin peninsula is that you can save the ruins for after you've picked up some techs, which allows for early Writing/Optics etc. I also stole 3 workers and 2 settlers from Dido, who also gave me DoF 5 turns after I made peace. So yeah, not a bad start, but I'm at T188 now and still only have 4 out of 8. :S

That may be the first time I've heard of someone using Scouts like that. I like it. That extra unit cost would have killed me (because, you know, I ALWAYS go for Petra), but getting early Sailing and Cargo Ships would probably take care of that easily.

Regarding waiting on Goodie huts: You were probably one of those kids who never opened their Xmas presents early, weren't you?

Good to see you back playing.

 

[Shark Diver]

I gave up and just settled for a Diplomatic Victory. I am not sure why the faraway runaway gave me more time than when I was trying to squeak out an SV. Guess I bribed him into war more this time?

I did clear the content with only descendants of the UU, 3 points. But it took Frigates and that was the only capital I tried for, 1 point. I completed piety, but had only the 2nd most popular religion, and did not convert any Holy Cities, 2 points.

Welcome back Consentient!

Looking at your screen shot, it looks like

Spoiler :

Harold

took out

Spoiler :

Lizzy

? Is that correct? This would never have happened on any of my 4 attempts.

 

[beetle]

Is that correct? This would never have happened on any of my 4 attempts.

Yes, that is correct. This was like my fifth try I think. In all the others, it went the opposite way.