The Cop Out Argument - Racism

[kochman]

Repeatedly now in the Israel threads I've seen several posters say to several other posters (including but certainly not limited to me) things like...
"You're ok with brown people dying"...
"evil, brown people"
"You're white... they're brown"

If you resort to this type of argument, you've already lost.
It's base and cheapens the value of debate at this website, which has potential to be great with some really smart people here.

I, for one, returned to talk to those people again.

Discuss amongst yourself... is this ship of somewhere near interesting discussion sinking?

 

[Tahuti]

It is their equivalent of saying "Criticism of Israel is antisemitism". There is no other explanation.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Accusing somebody of being a racist is generally the death knell of civilized discussion.

Godwin's law states that comparisons to the Nazis or other similar debate tactics do not lead to good discussions.

Having said that, I would point out that it was you, kochman, who first used the word "racist" in the Israel discussion thread. I only responded to your post in order to defend my viewpoint when you asked me to "apologize for calling you a racist"- something which I have no memory of actually doing.

 

[jackelgull]

So using the racist argument under any circumstances is wrong now? I suppose it doesn't exactly fit, considering that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an ethnic and religous issue, but still, if someone states that one side is completely wrong and should sit quietly and let what is going on go on, that Israel's bombing of civilians is right, or that Hamas is justified in his terrorism then they clearly believe that the casualties on the other side is acceptable.
Meaning that to the poster, Israeli lives are worth less than Palestinian lives or vice versa. That seems to operate in the same spirit of racism to me. Of course I could be wrong.

 

[brennan]

You've been raving against the Israelis for years... time to look into why, and it isn't the wars,

Funny, I took this to be an insinuation of anti-semitism. But, but... that would mean you're a massive hypocrite...

 

[kochman]

I only responded to your post in order to defend my viewpoint when you asked me to "apologize for calling you a racist"- something which I have no memory of actually doing.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13359037&postcount=84

You know, its a good thing that you yourself have said that you're not a racist, because otherwise the fact that what you're proposing is exactly the same as what the apartheid government of South Africa proposed for its undesirable non-white population might seem really suspicious. But you're definitely -for real- not a racist. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13361014&postcount=90

You are a racist.

When you say that one group of people should be given preferential treatment over another and those people just happen to be white people from the same western cultural background as you, that's racism. You are treating people differently based on their racial background. That is the exact dictionary definition of racism.

But, by all means, this is not limited to you, Corsair#01. I have seen it from several, I won't name names because that isn't the point.

The point is that I hope people can raise the way they debate.

I know full well I've had a checkered past, and I can be a jerk. I also try to do better.
I'm asking that of those who it fits as well.

 

[kochman]

So using the racist argument under any circumstances is wrong now?

No, if someone is being blatantly racist, that's one thing... However, to use that as the crux of your argument is just hyperbole.
If someone is being racist, we're supposed to report it, so the mods can keep this place tight... rather than run headlong into name calling, which sinks the ship of interest.

Funny, I took this to be an insinuation of anti-semitism. But, but... that would mean you're a massive hypocrite...

That wasn't the insinuation.
Didn't I just say that would be silly, since both groups are Semitic???????????????

 

[JollyRoger]

Just because you are wrong for other reasons doesn't exclude racism.

 

[brennan]

I've never even heard anyone say that anti-semitism is anything to do with any semites other than the Jews, that's a feeble response.

 

[kochman]

I've never even heard anyone say that anti-semitism is anything to do with any semites other than the Jews, that's a feeble response.

Your faults are not my problem.

 

[brennan]

You really need to show that i'm at fault if you are to be taken seriously. e.g. Show me a dictionary or encyclopedia that describes anti-semitism as anything other than stances against Jews.

While the term's etymology appears to indicate that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, the term was in fact coined in Germany in 1860 as a scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"),[2] and that has been its normal use since then.[3] For the purposes of a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism was considered "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity."

I'll not hold my breath.

 

[Tahuti]

It is refreshing to see how the Pro-Palestine camp defends the true etymology of antisemitism. Too often you get <snip> and tired arguments like "I'm not antisemitic because Arabs are too!".

Moderator Action: Inappropriate language removed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[T C]

@ the OP - If you can't see the racism on display by certain posters in the Israel-Palestine threads, then I would say you need to try looking.

 

[useless]

It is refreshing to see how the Pro-Palestine camp defends the true etymology of antisemitism. Too often you get ******** and tired arguments like "I'm not antisemitic because Arabs are too!".

So Anti-semitism can't apply to racism/bigotry towards non-jewish semetic people?

 

[brennan]

It is refreshing to see how the Pro-Palestine camp defends the true etymology of antisemitism. Too often you get ******** and tired arguments like "I'm not antisemitic because Arabs are too!".

1) I've never seen anyone feel the need to go beyond 'it's not anti-semitic to criticise the IDF for murdering hundreds of children'.

2) Nice attempt to slur your opponents. Obviously you don't concur with the OP.

 

[kochman]

I think the offenders have slurred themselves, that's the point of the OP.
This is in hopes that it'll stop.

 

[Tahuti]

1) I've never seen anyone feel the need to go beyond 'it's not anti-semitic to criticise the IDF for murdering hundreds of children'.

2) Nice attempt to slur your opponents. Obviously you don't concur with the OP.

I gave you a sincere compliment, and I get badbreathed for that too!

 

[T C]

I think the offenders have slurred themselves, that's the point of the OP.
This is in hopes that it'll stop.

Why should people stop calling racism, racism?

 

[kochman]

I didn't say that... come on TC.

 

[useless]

Why should people stop calling racism, racism?

Because the idea that he could support racism in the form colonialism or by supporting Israel's collective punishment of Palestinian Arabs, even unknowingly makes him uncomfortable, which makes it bad to point out because