The crypto thread

What do you prefer?

  • Bitcoin

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Ethereum

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Binance Coin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cardano

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Fiat

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Go away, I deal in coke and gold bars

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Privacy coins

    Votes: 1 3.2%

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
Not really. College majors were Economics and International Relations, with my computer knowledge basically consisting of when something doesn't work, google and follow instructions (after turning it off and on again).
But I'll give it a go, looking more for what it does more than than why it works, if that makes sense.

Essentially all it does is everything that a secure public ledger without a central authority should be able to do. The bitcoin whitepaper delves more into the how/why, so it might not be a good fit for what you are after.. but this document is what was written when the technology was first theorized and put into use. IMO it's worth having a read through regardless

But yeah, imagine a public ledger that is not centralized in any way. That's blockchain. A ledger is a transcription/collection of transactions. So when you log into your bank's online banking portal, it connects you to the part of their ledger you care about. i.e. your transactions. You log in and their centralized database pulls in all the transactions you have made in their system. Money coming in, money going out, bill payments, etc.

So now imagine a setup like this but without any sort of central authority (i.e. no bank), all while keeping everything secure, but also fully publicly transparent. i.e. anybody can look at any transaction in the ledger, none of it is private, but secure enough to run financial transactions worth millions (or billions) through. That's basically what blockchain tech is.

Since you can store many other types of data on a ledger and not only details of financial transactions, this opens up the door for this tech to be used for many other purposes. You can use it to track the collection of plastic from the oceans for example. You can use it to keep track of students graduating and who holds which degree (some universities have started doing this). You can use it to store "I bought this unique item" verification sort of data, which is essentially what NFTs are. You can use it for a vaccine passport that's really secure, although I'm not sure if this is being done anywhere yet. There are probably a lot of other uses that we haven't seen in play yet, since the tech is so new..

Another aspect of this worth reading about (once you understand ledger basics) are smart contracts. A number of years after bitcoin was launched, a nerd somewhere figured out that you can store smart contracts on the blockchain, which allows developers to build applications that run on this global ledger. So instead of simply storing values on the ledger, you can store smart contracts that outside code can interact with. If you've heard of ETHereum, that's the first blockchain tech that supported smart contracts. The ETH ecosystem has a whole crapload of developers currently developing new apps that run on this "global computer". From what I understand most of these are defi (decentralized finance) solutions, but there's probably all sorts of stuff out there these days.

Bitcoin is "old" tech that does not support smart contracts (and probably never will). So you can't build apps on top of bitcoin. At this point it is purely a store of value sort of thing. Whereas something like ETH (or SOL or ALGO or ADA) is a blockchain that hosts dapps (decentralized applications) you can interact with.

Unfortunately I don't have any good videos or other resources for you that would teach you the basis of this. But maybe my summary will help a bit
 
And in fairness, that is the primary skill of software engineers.
 
Anyone know of a good relatively in-depth explanation of crypto and blockchain? My work is starting to look into it and I would like to both be more comfortable talking about it and have a useful link to explain to my supervisor.
I don't think there is one (although Google can explain to you what Blockchain is, as a concept). Regardless of if anyone posts one. Although I'd *love* to hear a rational approach to what to buy into for the future.

IMO, it's Beanie Babies (fail). It's Comic Books (lucrative now). It's Sports Cards (wildly fluctuating, up & down, money to be made). It's... well, stamps (bust). That was a thing. It's Pokemon cards (money now if you dug them out of your mom's basement!). It's Magic cards (still, weirdly has a market). It's a speculative market you can buy into.

The only difference here is that it could, possibly, maybe, turn into the next Apple stock, or Facebook stock, or Google stock. It has the potential to be life-wealth-changing. That's the only benefit.
 
Regardless of if anyone posts one. Although I'd *love* to hear a rational approach to what to buy into for the future.

IMO, it's Beanie Babies (fail). It's Comic Books (lucrative now). It's Sports Cards (wildly fluctuating, up & down, money to be made). It's... well, stamps (bust). That was a thing. It's Pokemon cards (money now if you dug them out of your mom's basement!). It's Magic cards (still, weirdly has a market). It's a speculative market you can buy into.

The only difference here is that it could, possibly, maybe, turn into the next Apple stock, or Facebook stock, or Google stock. It has the potential to be life-wealth-changing. That's the only benefit.
What is your goal? Short term or long term?
 
Although I'd *love* to hear a rational approach to what to buy into for the future.

There are two traditional ways of approaching this. You can either take a technical analysis approach or a fundamental analysis approach.

If you are purely using a technical analysis to determine what/when to invest in, you study the charts and nothing but the charts. You learn all the known technical analysis methods, you apply them to your charts, and you trade based on the results from your analysis. What does this mean in practice? I do very little if any technical analysis so I'm not really the best person to try to explain this.. but basically you look for certain patterns in the data and you use these patterns to determine what to buy, when, and when to sell. From what I understand these methods are used by people who "day trade" (crypto or stock market). i.e. those who are hoping to buy cheap, sell high, and repeat this in order to grow their money, at times on a day by day basis.

If you are purely using a fundamental analysis approach to determine what to invest in, you study the fundamentals of the technology you are investing in. This means that if you are.. say.. investing in bitcoin.. you would study what bitcoin is, how it works, and then based on your analysis you determine whether this technology has potential for the future or not. This means reading whitepapers, reading up on the technology, any company or group associated with it, you read about their dev team, about their plans, what they're trying to do, if they're audited (if applicable), you study any competition they might have in the space, and so on. People who rely on this sort of investment are usually long(er) term holders. i.e. these are people who invest in the technology and believe that the specific blockchains or coins they've invested in will have utility in the future, hoping to cash out w/ big gains in 3-5-10 years or whenever.

Technically there is a third method of investing. Instead of analyzing the charts or the technology, you go on twitter and you wait until you hear that a bunch of people are buying a coin with a dog in it. Then you get this feeling known as FOMO, you remortgage your house and put all your life savings into the dog coin. Then you clench your butthole and hope for the best

So here's the thing.. If you are new to the space you probably want to buy and hold. Daytrading is for the experts and the brave, and TA is a bit of voodoo magic if you ask me.. Yes, you can use it to build up a sort of personalized risk assessment profile, and yes if you are good at it then you can probably be more efficient at increasing your profits over time... but only those who are really good at this should attempt to use it to daytrade, IMO. From what I read in an article, on average those who buy and hold actually come out on top.. mainly because those who TA but aren't experienced at it bring down the average, while buying and holding is so easy even a republican could do it

Assuming you are not interested in buying crapcoins with dogs on them, and want to make genuinely promising investments for the future, then your first step would basically be to sit down and learn about the basics of the (blockchain) technology. Eventually you will be able to categorize different coins based on their utility and use. This is imo vital. Right now you might look at the list of 6,000+ coins and think "Wow, 6,000 different coins".. But after you understand the technology better you will be able to see that it makes sense to break down all the coins into different categories. This will help you figure out what to buy.

So to answer your question a bit more completely.. It's up to you to determine what you want to buy. There's thousands of different coins and tokens and other blockchain related technologies you can invest in. Having said that, from what I understand (and I am not an expert at all), Bitcoin and Ethereum are sort of considered the least risk averse investments in this space. So if you have no idea what you are doing and you are a long term holder, then maybe start there? From what I've read bigtime investors (i.e. investing millions or more) consider these 2 coins to have the best chance of surviving 10+ years. And I mean, I would begin by learning what blockchain tech is in the first place and what exactly you are investing your money into.. Once you start doing that research, it should organically lead you to eventually build your own opinion on which of these techs might blow up in the future. You can also of course read the opinions of others, although be weary of anything on youtube. There is a lot of misinformation out there! Unless you are seeking out a specific youtube personality, just stay away from that platform completely.

Say you are a noob and you bought some bitcoin and ethereum and plan on sitting on it for 5 years. Now you want to diversify your portfolio a bit but are too lazy to actually do any research. What now? IMO what you could do is buy a couple coins from each category. I would invest in some of the emerging smart contract blockchains like cardano, algorand, polkadot, solana, etc. These are essentially all competing products to Ethereum, but right now their native tokens are a lot cheaper since they are processing a lot less volume. After that invest in some utility tokens. This is a much broader space, since you can imagine all sort of utility for blockchain tech. But for instance let's say something like TEL, which is designed to offer cheap & efficient remittance options to people (i.e. competing with western union). or VET which is being used to help clean up the oceans. Find utility you think will be useful in the future and/or something you believe in. After that I would invest in a couple exchange tokens like UNI or SUSHI or something. And depending on how you feel you can also invest in some digital currency coins like XRP or XLM. And if you are feeling especially emo you can invest in some NFT based blockchain tech as well. In the end your portfolio should be diverse and include high and low risk options from each category.. leaning heavily on the less-risky side, since this whole space is already incredibly risky in the first place.

I am not an investor, I am just a technology guy. This is not financial advice
 
It isn’t money.

Indeed. It is, and was from conception, only useful as a speculative instrument, one more. I absolutely do not believe the stated claims/intentions of its anonymous inventor - bitcoin as a currency! No one who could do that paper and original code could be so dumb as to believe it could scale for use as currency. For that purpose it is flawed by design.

It's a game of greater fool where all participants are aware of the fraud it is. Something worthless (because useless for any actual production or satisfaction of needs) being traded as if it is valuable because by agreement it is deemed valuable? Perhaps the intent was to mock the very concept of currency and how it evolved more recently?

Anyway, I think you may find it interesting that economists at central banks are by now openly cynical about economic theory, currency, inflation, and the management of money in general...

Mainstream economics is replete with ideas that “everyone knows” to be true, but that are actually arrant nonsense. [...] None of these propositions has any sort of empirical foundation; moreover, each one turns out to be seriously deficient on theoretical grounds [1]. Nevertheless, economists continue to rely on these and similar ideas to organize their thinking about real-world economic phenomena. No doubt, one reason why this situation arises is because the economy is a complicated system that is inherently difficult to understand, so propositions like these - even though wrong - are all that saves us from intellectual nihilism. Another, more prosaic reason is Stigler’s (1982) equally nihilistic observation that “it takes a theory to beat a theory.”Is this state of affairs ever harmful or dangerous? One natural source of concern is if dubious but widely held ideas serve as the basis for consequential policy decisions. [2]
[...]
1. For a useful brief against production functions, see Felipe and Fisher (2003); for the case against capital aggregates, see Brown (1980). The idea that the inherent stability of the economy is a concomitant of general-equilibrium theory is difficult to entertain seriously after giving Fisher (1983) close study; see Grandmont (1982) for some related macroeconomic arguments. Finally, Hildenbrand (1994) provides a sobering corrective to first-year demand theory.
2. I leave aside the deeper concern that the primary role of mainstream economics in our society is to provide an apologetics for a criminally oppressive, unsustainable, and unjust social order.
[...]

Bitcoin (or any other "cryptocurrency") was a false solution for a problem of (depending on who is peddling it) currency depreciation, or control of currency by a single entity (usually deemed "bad" because inflation anyway, so reason #1 again). But inflation has more complex causes than "creation of money", and in any case the ability to create money is necessary for good government - whether it's good or bad (more accurately, for whom it is) depends on how it is used. But the ability to manage money by some political power is necessary for money to even work as currency, because that same political power enforces all the market rules that involve the currency: the value of the currency is decided by the rule-maker. A currency outside that control is simply impossible.

Block chain is not a new invention. It's a fancy name for something that was in use for a long time before the fancy name was attached to it and bands of salesmen tried to peddle that as a solution for problems that didn't exist. Signed/encrypted ledgers of information with the ability to distribute verifiable historical information were in use in computing since the 1980s at least, I believe, and became wildly deployed even before "blockchain" was coined, in stuff such as git. They're useful for some very specific use cases and they're no new secret sauce and certainly not worth any big money sums the salesmen are trying to get. Like bitcoin, it's a realm for snake-oil salesman.
 
Cool paper.
 
What is your goal? Short term or long term?
Short term? I have no idea.
Long term? It's to hold some random Crypto in hopes what I'm holding becomes the new BitCoin, I guess, in the way that FaceBook became the new MySpace (although that is not a 1:1 analogy).

That's a simplistic answer, though, so: I guess I'm hoping for something I'm holding to become, to quote Cartman from South Park, "screw you guys, I'm going home" wealth.

I've actually seen some friends of mine do that. The ones who bought a bunch of DOGE when it when it was well under $0.01, & then went up to $0.70 (it's now a little over $0,20) & cashed out.

I'm jealous, I admit. I wish I'd done what they did. But I had no idea then. I still don't. But it has that potential. For example, SHIBA INU, appears to be the next "big thing" in Crypto. So I bought some. Hoping lightning strikes twice. Also, I bought some TERRA (LUNA), b/c it shares a name with my favorite super-hero from the '80's, & it's done great! None of it makes logical sense.

I have no idea what I'm doing. Or what this even is. But it seems like a decent way of generating wealth, so... I'll play, I guess?
 
Short term? I have no idea.
Long term? It's to hold some random Crypto in hopes what I'm holding becomes the new BitCoin, I guess, in the way that FaceBook became the new MySpace (although that is not a 1:1 analogy).

That's a simplistic answer, though, so: I guess I'm hoping for something I'm holding to become, to quote Cartman from South Park, "screw you guys, I'm going home" wealth.

I've actually seen some friends of mine do that. The ones who bought a bunch of DOGE when it when it was well under $0.01, & then went up to $0.70 (it's now a little over $0,20) & cashed out.

I'm jealous, I admit. I wish I'd done what they did. But I had no idea then. I still don't. But it has that potential. For example, SHIBA INU, appears to be the next "big thing" in Crypto. So I bought some. Hoping lightning strikes twice. Also, I bought some TERRA (LUNA), b/c it shares a name with my favorite super-hero from the '80's, & it's done great! None of it makes logical sense.

I have no idea what I'm doing. Or what this even is. But it seems like a decent way of generating wealth, so... I'll play, I guess?
Thanks that helps. Let me ask you some questions for you to answer and you can do so privately. No need to tell me or anyone else, but you need to answer them.

How much is "I'm going home." wealth?
How many years are you willing to wait to have it?
How big is the pool of money you have to invest/spend/bet to get there? Are you willing to lose 100% of that sum?
Once you have this "wealth", how much income will you need annually to support your "retirement" lifestyle?

These types of questions lay out the playing field and the types of options you might have. You should write down your answers to those questions.
 
Watch out with stuff like SHIBA INU. This particular coin is inflationary and has no burn mechanism, so the available supply will always be going up. This creates selling pressure which drives the price down. Now, if there's enough activity and new money coming into their ecosystem, then that can create enough buying pressure to counteract that. The mere existence of all that selling pressure is not a good prospect for the future though. Buying into coins like Shiba Inu, without doing any research into the tokenomics or anything at all, is a big gamble. Those who bought into DOGE before it blew up got lucky. You can buy up other coins with dogs hoping to get equally lucky, but it's like going to the casino. It's a hustle. You're hoping to get lucky. I admit that in the case of Shiba Inu (and DOGE) you are also investing in their community. And they seem to have a rather large one, for some reason. So in the grand scheme of things it's probably not a great investment, but if you only compare it to all the other dog coins (there's a whole bunch) .. then maybe?

There's people who look up coins that are not worth much right now (i.e. tiny fraction of a fraction of a cent per coin) and buy a bunch of those hoping that one blows up. You are really hoping to get lucky if you do that. Soo many coins fail, you are not likely to ever walk away with "i'm going home" wealth or anything similar. It's possible, but you're basically spinning a roulette wheel hoping for the best. Instead I recommend you research the actual thing you are investing into and only invest in coins that you believe will still be around 10 years from now. Look at the technology, the community, the space they operate in, what they are trying to do, any utility/etc, research the tokenomics, the implications, yadda yadda, and if any of the coins you've researched happen to be worth little, then bonus. That doesn't necessarily mean anything either. Just because something is worth 0.0000001 $ right now doesn't mean it's ever going to reach $1. If enough people buy into the project - sure maybe - but there needs to be a reason that will bring all those investors to their yard. So your job is to figure out which projects have such a prospect for the future, and invest in those, and ignore the others (i.e. most of them)

I have also read that you are not supposed to ever invest money you can't afford to lose. So.. Do not refinance your house, and basically assume that any money you invest is immediately gone.

For full disclosure I have invested a bit of money into this space for my goddaughter. A relatively small amount as part of my first communion gift for her, to be liquidated in 2035. I wrote up a cute little "Baby's First Portfolio" type thing in a notepad that details the breakdown of the "portfolio" (it's like $230 usd). It's broken down into 3 tiers (low risk (62% of the total amount), medium risk (22%), high risk (16%)). Low risk are bitcoin (21%) and Ethereum (41%). Medium risk are 3 up and coming technologies I personally feel have a relatively high probability of growing in the future (ADA, MATIC, ALGO) . High risk includes DOGE, cause I figured that my niece might eventually end up liking dogs.. and it seems that a small % of any portfolio might as well be high risk.

If you are hoping to get rich quick, you are going to have to gamble. But if you can afford to wait 5-10 years, it makes a lot more sense to do the proper research and invest in technologies you feel have a good chance of surviving and thriving in the long term.
 
WSJ article on Crypto

This Is How Much Crypto To Hold in Your Portfolio
“You want to hold assets that give you fair expected returns but are uncorrelated with other asset classes, which is the case for cryptos,” says economist Yukun Liu

By Daren Fonda

Should you buy a little digital gold for your portfolio? It’s tempting. At a market value of $2.1 trillion, including $900 billion in Bitcoin, cryptocurrencies are now bigger than the U.S. junk-bond market. Fortunes have been made as prices soared in the past year. Why not add a little crypto for diversification, and a chance to profit off technology that could revolutionize everything from stock trading to digital art?

Nothing about crypto is that simple, of course, including its value as an alternative asset. Yes, some brokerages argue that adding a dollop may boost returns in awell-diversified portfolio. But the market is evolving so fast that data sets from even a year ago may now be stale. El Salvador’s Bitcoin adoption aside, many governments—including China—are cracking down on digital tokens. Investors also need to separate the tokens from the technology: Blockchain networks have the potential to revolutionize financial markets. If you’re going to bet on crypto, those companies may be safer than speculating on the coins.

Advisory firms appear split on whether to recommend cryptos as an alternative asset— something other than stocks or bonds that can smooth out portfolio volatility and/or lift returns. Fidelity Investments says that holding 3% in Bitcoin from January 2015 through September 2020 would have lifted returns by an average 3.4 percentage points a year over a 60/40 portfolio of stocks and bonds. According to Morgan Stanley, a 2.5% stake in Bitcoin would have boosted returns by an average 1.6 percentage points from 2014 to October 2020.

Tom Jessop, president of Fidelity Digital Assets, describes crypto as a “venture investment,” similar to Silicon Valley start-ups. “Like any venture, it has high risk/reward trade-offs, but it should have the effect of diversifying and amplifying returns,” he says.

Morgan Stanley is still “constructive” on crypto, despite a recent slide in prices, says Lisa Shalett, chief investment officer of wealth management. Bitcoin has had almost no correlation to interest rates over the past year and maintained low correlations to stocks, she points out. “We continue to see crypto as being in the bottom of the first inning as an emerging asset class,” she says. “It has huge potential with uses that continue to evolve.”

UBS, though, isn’t on board. “To invest in Bitcoin strategically, you need to assume that prices are going to keep rising, and we find it hard to draw that conclusion,” says Michael Bolliger, chief investment officer of emerging market assets. Bitcoin is often described as “digital gold” since both assets have a fixed supply, conferring anti-inflation properties. But he rejects gold, too, noting that it doesn’t pay dividends or interest and has a poor record of tracking economic growth. While tactical bets onBitcoin and gold can pay off, he says, “we think there are better alternative assets for a strategic allocation.”

The diverging views reflect the fact that cryptos are like an unruly digital Rubik’s cube: maddeningly unstable and rapidly evolving. And they come with rising regulatory risks. Nothing about the market looks like it did three years ago, when Bitcoin dominated. There are now thousands of tokens and blockchain networks, including platforms for lending, trading, and other uses.

Ethereum is now the second-largest network, with tokens worth $390 billion in market value. Other networks with “native” tokens include Cardano, Solana, Uniswap, and the “meme” cryptos that started as a joke, like Dogecoin (now worth $29 billion). Nonfungible tokens, or NFTs—digital collectibles from artworks to tweets—have become a thriving market. Gaming platforms are incorporating NFTs and other cryptos as in-game currencies. Wall Street firms are developing ways to trade tokenized versions of securities.

The expansion has attracted hedge funds, foundations, and other big capital pools, turning cryptos into a tradable asset class. More than half of the 1,100 institutional investors surveyed by Fidelity this year said they had exposure to digital assets. More than 75% of professional investors in Europe and Asia plan to buy digital assets, along with 60% in the U.S.

Yet the money flow has made cryptos more like other risky assets—vulnerable to macroeconomic pressures and episodes of capital flight. Correlations to other risky assets have been rising, according to Bolliger. Cryptos plunged in the spring of 2020, when the pandemic wiped out equities worldwide. The recent crisis over China’s overheated property market also sent cryptos reeling.

Cryptos have benefited from central banks pumping liquidity into capital markets, lifting demand for stocks and other assets. That may be coming to an end: The Federal Reserve signaled recently that it will start scaling back bond purchases in November, a step toward raising interest rates in 2022. The impact may be gradual, but it will raise hurdles for capital investments in crypto and other speculative assets.

The other major concern for crypto markets is regulation. Led by Gary Gensler, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, regulators are angling to rein in cryptos. Decentralized finance, or DeFi, platforms, used for lending and trading, are coming under scrutiny in Washington, along with stable coins—tokens designed to maintain a stable $1 value. The Treasury Department is expected to issue a framework to regulate stable coins soon, while state banking regulators are slowly cracking down on high-yielding crypto accounts.

China is turning against crypto, too. Beijing, which banned crypto mining awhile ago, recently announced a ban on business transactions— effectively warning residents not to even try using a token to buy a cup of Starbucks coffee. The ban could curtail the growth of cryptos in the world’s second-largest economy, affecting prices and demand worldwide. Other governments see threats from cryptos and DeFi networks where anyone can trade 24/7, under the radar of regulators and tax authorities.

Does all this mean investors should avoid crypto altogether? No. One of the strongest cases for the asset remains diversification. From 2015 through 2020, Bitcoin was almost entirely uncorrelated to U.S. and international stocks, high-yield bonds, real estate, and gold. Bitcoin also appears inversely correlated to the dollar.

“You want to hold assets that give you fair expected returns but are uncorrelated with other asset classes, which is the case for cryptos,” says Yukun Liu, an economist at the University of Rochester who has studied the investment. He recommends a 1% to 2% allocation, or up to 3% if you’re “highly optimistic” about the technology. Cryptos are additive at those levels because they won’t torpedo your portfolio if they crash, he says, and if their returns beat those of stocks, you’ll come out ahead in the long run.

Still, a diversifying asset can be highly volatile. Indeed, Bitcoin’s odds of a collapse are six times higher than in stocks. There’s a 30% chance of losing 63% in Bitcoin from a two-year high, according to Fidelity. For the S& P 500, there’s only a 5% chance of a similar drawdown, based on data since 1900.

Moreover, cryptos are high-velocity investments—you have to catch a wave before it turns to foam. And 38% of the Bitcoins that have been produced, about 7.2 million tokens, may be lost forever or don’t circulate on trading platforms, according to data provider Glassnode. It takes less than $100million net inflow to push the price up 1%, according to Bank of America. That is 20 times less than it would take to have a similar impact on gold.

Crypto backers argue that the rewards are well worth the risk. “Cryptos give investors exposure to a technology that’s so disruptive, it’s threatening the profits of both Wall Street and Silicon Valley,” says Matthew Sigel, head of digital assets research at VanEck. “Because of the technology’s impressive characteristics, every investor should have some exposure.”

Cryptos, he adds, held up reasonably well in the latest China debt crisis. While taking a hit, cryptos didn’t collapse, partly because automated “liquidation bots” swept through decentralized lending platforms, swiping collateral from borrowers and returning it to lenders (for a fee). “There is a lot of leverage in cryptos, but a lot is liquidated based on formulas,” he says. “That’s why we haven’t seen systemic risk from cryptos. The losers get wrecked very quickly.”

Still, even proponents argue that investors should hold multiple tokens or companies involved in blockchain-based services. “You don’t want to make single bets,” says Shalett. “You want exposure to a diversified set of players—the coins, miners, custodians, transactional services. All of that is in play.”

Some advisors like index funds for exposure. Hal Anderson, managing partner of Utah-based Soltis Investment Advisors, holds up to 7% of some client portfolios in cryptos, including the Bitwise 10 Crypto Index fund (ticker: BITW) and the Bitwise Crypto Industry Innovators exchange-traded fund (BITQ). “Crypto is here to stay,” he says, “but there’s a lot that has to be worked out.”
 
Thanks that helps. Let me ask you some questions for you to answer and you can do so privately. No need to tell me or anyone else, but you need to answer them.
I don't mind answering. I just don't come here (much less post) as often as most people, so it may take me a few days to respond to questions. :)
How much is "I'm going home." wealth?
At my age, which I... think, is about a decade & a half, outside maybe two, from where you are (I do read & pick up a lot), it's roughly half a million dollars. To just literally coast to retirement age & go all "Screw you guys, I'm going home".

That said, I have much younger friends from work who are looking at ~$100k (or even much less, particularly if they are living with their parents [no judgment]) as "screw you guys, I'm going home" money. They live differently than I do. I have a mortgage, utilities, etc. So that's purely my situation, but younger people view much less wealth as SYGIGH wealth, in my experience. So it's a very good question to ask of anyone who expresses that (assuming they even recognize the quote!)
How many years are you willing to wait to have it?
About 5, I'd say. Means I could enjoy the SYGIGH aspect for well over a decade, until I can tap into my 401k, & then SS.
How big is the pool of money you have to invest/spend/bet to get there?
I guess, this one I'm not willing to get into a lot of specifics on, but let's say several thousands dollars, not counting all my dollars I've used for other more stable, reliable investments throughout my life.
Are you willing to lose 100% of that sum?
yes, in regards to Crypto investments. That's been my advice to anyone listening... err, reading. "Only invest what you can afford to lose". This is gambling. This is lottery tickets. This could be Beanie Babies.
Once you have this "wealth", how much income will you need annually to support your "retirement" lifestyle?
That is an excellent question, & one I don't actually know the answer for. I have a Mutual Fund I've been paying into for a couple decades. I've max'd out my 401k from early on. I'm making good money. I plan to pay off my house in about 2 years. I'm privileged but also worked my butt off to get where I am, & now I have disposable income. And now it's all about "how do I coast?" (I'm Gen X - we are notoriously lazy)
These types of questions lay out the playing field and the types of options you might have. You should write down your answers to those questions.
Agreed. And I don't have my answers nailed down. But I've been cognizant of this for a long while. I'm not there yet. By any means. But if Crypto, & the money I can "gamble" on it, gets me closer, great! If it all goes kaput, I'm just... following my plan, I guess.

And I'd advise anyone else investing in Crypto to be similarly cautious. But it can result in life-changing wealth. For whatever value you assign to "life-changing".
 
@RobAnybody
I'm 73 and retired at 68. Since you have been working and paying into SS and IRAs you have a "shadow" portfolio for retirement. If you wait to draw SS until close to 70 (a very smart move), you will likely have $30k+ in SS income. That is the equivalent to a $1M bond portfolio paying 3%; IRA income will add to that and depending upon whether you can just drain off the income or have to take capital, it is also part of your portfolio.

A five year window is pretty short to raise $500,000. If you need it to last 15 years, then that is about $30,000+ a year as income. Can you enjoy all your free time on that? You really need to figure out what your income needs will be during your post working pre retirement years.

So you raised some other questions.
  • Do you have a family?
  • Do you want to travel? Do you have friends or companions to travel with?
  • Will you stop working if you have less than that?
  • If you paid off your mortgage tomorrow, how much extra cash would you have to invest towards your goal? What is that cash doing now? What if you just made double payments?
Take some assumed monthly amount of investment and do a future value calculation to achieve a goal of half a million land see what the annual rate of increase would be. Excel can do this. Is your job such that you could quit in 5-7 years and play for five years and then go back and work for another five?

If you are going to gamble thousands of dollars, then be smart about it. You are gambling over time. I would suggest being diversified in doing so.

  • Learn to play blackjack and make regular trips to your local casino to boost your investment cash.
  • Invest in crypto such that you have put enough into a coin so that the upside is significant towards your goal. Buy 3-5? different ones.
  • Buy lottery tickets in games that payout in the $25-100,000 range.
  • Subject yourself to the propaganda of the Motley Fool and buy some their "sure winners" stocks. You have to subscribe, I believe, to get access to their recommendations.
 
These are all really good questions. That should be asked of a younger person, or maybe a less prepared than I am person. ;) I appreciate your point in asking them; I am glad you are asking them, but I do not think they are applicable to me. Perhaps others in this thread should consider them. I encourage it. No one should treat Crypto as their retirement plan.

But, I'm set in life. I'm gambling money I can afford to lose in Crypto, in hopes it just accelerates my SYGIGH portfolio. It could be lottery type money, or could result in nothing. If it fails, I'm good: I just follow the plan I already established for myself. Appreciate you looking out though.
 
@RobAnybody Being set for life is a good place to be. Congratulations! have fun with your crypto plays.
 
Bitcoin (or any other "cryptocurrency") was a false solution for a problem of (depending on who is peddling it) currency depreciation, or control of currency by a single entity (usually deemed "bad" because inflation anyway, so reason #1 again). But inflation has more complex causes than "creation of money", and in any case the ability to create money is necessary for good government - whether it's good or bad (more accurately, for whom it is) depends on how it is used. But the ability to manage money by some political power is necessary for money to even work as currency, because that same political power enforces all the market rules that involve the currency: the value of the currency is decided by the rule-maker. A currency outside that control is simply impossible.

Right, I think you mean “unfavourable to a certain class”. Visible reality shows that it’s perfectly possible, although governments are still adept at suppression. That, in turn, enabled the appearance of crypto cities and crypto countries, where, previously, offshore heavens could be found. We are not seeing just the appearance of a new type or flavour of currency or solution to the inflation problem. What we are seeing can be characterised as “digitalisation of value”. Value can be stored in the cloud or in your tattoo and summoned at will in an instant. It can be programmed to perform various tasks, including those, which, throughout history, were the privilege of the wealthiest classes in the society and financial institutions. Through progress the value became programmable and accessible. I am sure wealthy individuals and governments will find a way to centralise and monopolise some of those flows and will manage it well, like they did in the good old days of the Great Depression or the dot com crisis or in the 2008.

What tangible benefit does “management by political power” provide over “management by consensus mechanism”? If we agree on something, then it can be laid down in code, and when it is, it becomes law (or law-in-progress). Political power de facto serves the interests of major international capitalist groups. Consensus mechanism can be used to do the same, but with less friction and on the cheap. The principal difference between the two is that the latter is harder to manipulate in authoritarian way - you can’t fiddle with crypto interest rates on the whim just because your political party needs it NOW to look good on the internet.
 
I felt like I should clarify one point: "set for life" <> "set in life".

The latter means you have an actual plan to get to retirement, & are on that path & following it, which is something everyone needs to do, regardless of age & is irrelevant of investing in Crypto. The former, I'm guessing, no one posting on this particular site is at, or else they'd be hanging out on their yacht.
 
John Goodman has a scene in The Gambler that talks about how much money you need to get a house, a 25 year roof, and a nest egg that pays dividends.
It's not safe to link here though.
 
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