The crypto thread

[Kyriakos]

@Samson

Is the Byzantine Generals problem applied extensively in cryptocoin transactions?
If so, does the solution rely on sginature/similar verification or brute force (less than 1/3 suspect parties in the transactions)?

And a third question, which unlike the other two could have also been in the general questions thread:
Isn't the Two Generals computer science problem just a specific case of the Byzantine Generals one? (for the total number of generals being 3, and one of them serving as an intermediary in the valley).

 

[Samson]

@Samson

Is the Byzantine Generals problem applied extensively in cryptocoin transactions?
If so, does the solution rely on sginature/similar verification or brute force (less than 1/3 suspect parties in the transactions)?

And a third question, which unlike the other two could have also been in the general questions thread:
Isn't the Two Generals computer science problem just a specific case of the Byzantine Generals one? (for the total number of generals being 3, and one of them serving as an intermediary in the valley).

You are beyond me, I have not come across those. I am pretty self taught in computing, so I do not have the philosophical underpinning that "proper" computer graduates have.

Fro a quick google "Byzantine fault is a condition of a computer system, particularly distributed computing systems, where components may fail and there is imperfect information on whether a component has failed". I do not think this applies to blockchains, you can (and do when you download it) fully check the blockchain so you know it is always in a correct state.

 

[Kyriakos]

(Of course) I am not beyond you in computer-science. I did see a few youtube videos on this which specifically mention it as blockchain-related, but probably missunderstood what corruption stood for there (I thought it wasn't a technical issue, but - as in the parable itself - a malignant misrepresentation, ultimately by human actors).

I also read a part of a paper on the problem (with proofs on the conditions where they apply). The following:

https://lamport.azurewebsites.net/pubs/byz.pdf

 

[warpus]

I don't know if it answers your question, but there's an article about this here

 

[citizenofdoom]

Proof of stake: "Validators who own more coins on a blockchain can validate more blocks and earn greater rewards."
Seems like an attempt wealth gap.

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't know if it answers your question, but there's an article about this here

While it messes up the known version of the metaphor (how would byzantine generals besiege Byzantium - well, it might be a civil war as usual in the empire, but that's not the version I knew) and it links to the same paper that I already posted, it does include additional information as a summation for use in blockchain, so thanks

 

[PhroX]

Proof of stake: "Validators who own more coins on a blockchain can validate more blocks and earn greater rewards."
Seems like an attempt wealth gap.

It's just streamlining proof of work's "people who own more coins can afford to buy faster hardware and validate more blocks and earn greater rewards".

Basically, these systems are designed from the ground up to centralise wealth in the hands of the few. And yet their supporters keep shouting about how crypto/web3/etc. are all about "decentralising"....

 

[Samson]

It's just streamlining proof of work's "people who own more coins can afford to buy faster hardware and validate more blocks and earn greater rewards".

Basically, these systems are designed from the ground up to centralise wealth in the hands of the few. And yet their supporters keep shouting about how crypto/web3/etc. are all about "decentralising"....

They are less centralised that visa.

 

[citizenofdoom]

"people who own more coins can afford to buy faster hardware and validate more blocks and earn greater rewards".

It makes a pseudo demand from miners for the grand pyramid scheme.
Crypto demand to trade is normal but crypto demand to inflate crypto is generally not normal to me.
Also a tool to centralize wealth into the hands of the few, but this few is not very elite, I think.
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There are effortless ways to decentralize wealth.
If they love decentralization of currency system, buy damn gold certificates.
Gold is universally accepted as something that represents value in human society, and inflates relatively to industrial power, also has value adjusted to time due to scarcity of resources, created through also a mining process.
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Crypto to me, is a convenient invention.
Imagine in just a few seconds, your money appears in another country.
I don't like bank wire. It seems stupid.
Therefore, if the crypto market actually crashes or rises, I don't really care
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I have a vague feeling of something represents value's value depends on things use circulated using something.
Look at gold. It's so valuable.
Decentralized or not, all require Internet.
And anyone can make a gold vault issuing gold cerf given they have enough gold.
So, in my opinion, gold is probably the most decentralized medium of exchange ever existed.

 

[Samson]

If they love decentralization of currency system, buy damn gold certificates.
Gold is universally accepted as something that represents value in human society, and inflates relatively to industrial power, also has value adjusted to time due to scarcity of resources, created through also a mining process.

Gold really is similarly bad as bitcoin, and does not have the proof of stake solution for making it more environmentally friendly. Sure, you can make jewelry out of it but that only really is because we put value on it. You can make pretty stuff out of things that are more sustainable.

 

[warpus]

While it messes up the known version of the metaphor (how would byzantine generals besiege Byzantium - well, it might be a civil war as usual in the empire, but that's not the version I knew)

Sounds quite byzantine if you ask me

 

[FriendlyFire]

Gold really is similarly bad as bitcoin, and does not have the proof of stake solution for making it more environmentally friendly. Sure, you can make jewelry out of it but that only really is because we put value on it. You can make pretty stuff out of things that are more sustainable.

You can use it in electronics and some manufacturing.
Id imagine the real price of Gold is much lower if not for its history as an established form of currency.

 

[AmazonQueen]

You can use it in electronics and some manufacturing.
Id imagine the real price of Gold is much lower if not for its history as an established form of currency.

It is pretty much entirely to its relatively recent use as an established currency.
Silver was the main metal used for currency from about 3000 BC until the 19th century when UK set the value of gold guineas higher than their gold value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_standard

 

[Kyriakos]

The gist of the video:

-Some crypto crowdfund decided to buy a copy of a rare book (becomes available only when a collector is willing to sell his), which is (afaik) the script to Jodorowsky's Dune as well as illustrations/concept art for that doomed project. The book had a history of selling for around 40.000 dollars.
-The crypto team bought a copy of the book for 3 million dollars.
-They announced that they would scan the pages and release them to the public and/or make each page a NFT. Another plan was to make a netflix-style show based on it.
-The youtuber says that they apparently were dumb enough to not realize that buying a copy of that book did not grant them any copyright of it.
-The team seemed to backtrack, although never state that their plan never was to do all those copyright-dependent things.

But, as usual, there seems to be more to the story than meets the eye (or at least more than the youtuber presented). Other sources claim that the crypto guys had to contact a rich person to lend them money to purchase the copy of the book, and that meanwhile they did crowdfund with the said plans (make pages of the book NFTs for their supporters etc), which some say provided them with (up to) 12 million dollars...
So, if the above are correct, it is a lot likelier that the crypto fundraiser was a calculated scam, to lure enough public backers with the promise to make (pretty much) public domain a known dune lore item, and then keep the surplus (after the book was bought) for the scammers.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the person who sold them his copy of the book, making a profit (from 40000 to 3000000...) was in the scam and gave them a considerable cut

Besides, one statement by a person of the team, where he does seem to profess to not have been really aware of the copyright implications (which means he either is a moron or very crudely preferred to be identified as a moron to a scammer), makes me consider this to have been a pretty decent misdirect. Dune itself is captivating enough as a title that people could realistically not focus on what must always flow on Cryptakis.

Then again, I read they also had (from the crowdfund) roughly 3 million dollars in ether, which by now has been reduced to 1/3 of its value.

 

[Samson]

The gist of the video:

-Some crypto crowdfund decided to buy a copy of a rare book (becomes available only when a collector is willing to sell his), which is (afaik) the script to Jodorowsky's Dune as well as illustrations/concept art for that doomed project. The book had a history of selling for around 40.000 dollars.
-The crypto team bought a copy of the book for 3 million dollars.
-They announced that they would scan the pages and release them to the public and/or make each page a NFT. Another plan was to make a netflix-style show based on it.
-The youtuber says that they apparently were dumb enough to not realize that buying a copy of that book did not grant them any copyright of it.
-The team seemed to backtrack, although never state that their plan never was to do all those copyright-dependent things.

But, as usual, there seems to be more to the story than meets the eye (or at least more than the youtuber presented). Other sources claim that the crypto guys had to contact a rich person to lend them money to purchase the copy of the book, and that meanwhile they did crowdfund with the said plans (make pages of the book NFTs for their supporters etc), which some say provided them with (up to) 12 million dollars...
So, if the above are correct, it is a lot likelier that the crypto fundraiser was a calculated scam, to lure enough public backers with the promise to make (pretty much) public domain a known dune lore item, and then keep the surplus (after the book was bought) for the scammers.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the person who sold them his copy of the book, making a profit (from 40000 to 3000000...) was in the scam and gave them a considerable cut

Besides, one statement by a person of the team, where he does seem to profess to not have been really aware of the copyright implications (which means he either is a moron or very crudely preferred to be identified as a moron to a scammer), makes me consider this to have been a pretty decent misdirect. Dune itself is captivating enough as a title that people could realistically not focus on what must always flow on Cryptakis.

Then again, I read they also had (from the crowdfund) roughly 3 million dollars in ether, which by now has been reduced to 1/3 of its value.

I do not think it is clear that making an NFT of something is a "copyright-dependent thing". It is not obviously a derivative work, and do not usually come with copy rights.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Can I short Bitcoin?

 

[Samson]

Can I short Bitcoin?

Yes. The ProShares Short Bitcoin Strategy ETF (BITI) is basically this, and every two bit exchange will allow you short at stupid leverage. You have to be aware that the swings are pretty big so you can get wiped out by a temporary swing even if you bet in the right direction overall.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

That's a margin call right? How can I reduce the risk of that happening? Have a lot of spare cash?

 

[Samson]

That's a margin call right? How can I reduce the risk of that happening? Have a lot of spare cash?

I have never done it, but I think have a lot of collateral tied up with the stake. Your problem then becomes do you trust the exchange, which you probably should not.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Yeah I just loaded my Hargreaves Lansdown account and while they allowed me to mess about with GME, they dont appear to facilitate BITI. Shame. Would have dumped a few k against bitcoin right now...