The crypto thread

What do you prefer?

  • Bitcoin

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Ethereum

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Binance Coin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cardano

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Fiat

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Go away, I deal in coke and gold bars

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Privacy coins

    Votes: 1 3.2%

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
One person asked if Web 3.0 will still have copyright and these guys started talking about the tech. I had to remind everyone that The Law is still the fn law


law()

GET IT? :D

I didn’t rock any boats more than that.
BJ no money was asked for; they ran through some programming languages and “APIs” we should learn to create smart contracts. These dweebs pretend Node is a language and not JavaScript so I can’t even. I pray this isn’t industry wide. I’m not the type of person who can pretend the icing is the cake.


I actually think smart contracts and defi is really interesting too, at a very high level.
 
BJ no money was asked for; they ran through some programming languages and “APIs” we should learn to create smart contracts. These dweebs pretend Node is a language and not JavaScript so I can’t even. I pray this isn’t industry wide. I’m not the type of person who can pretend the icing is the cake.
One thing I recently found out is that you kind of have to give these complex wallet come smart contract tools to actually get any benefit out of NFTs. They will run arbitrary bits of code sent to your wallet address, which can transfer the contents out. And people keep things worth vast amounts of money in them.
 
Crypto is definitely taking a beating!

‘The Music Has Stopped’: Crypto Firms Quake as Prices Fall – DNyuz

After weeks of plummeting cryptocurrency prices, Coinbase said on Tuesday that it was cutting 18 percent of its employees, after layoffs at other crypto companies like Gemini, BlockFi and Crypto.com. High-profile start-ups like Terraform Labs have imploded, wiping away years of investments. On Sunday, an experimental crypto bank, Celsius, abruptly halted withdrawals.

The pullback in the crypto ecosystem illustrates the precariousness of the structure built around these risky and unregulated digital assets. The total value of the cryptocurrency market has dropped by about 65 percent since autumn, and analysts predict the sell-off will continue. Stock prices of crypto companies have cratered, retail traders are fleeing and industry executives are predicting a prolonged slump that could put more companies in jeopardy.

The tide has gone out in crypto, and we’re seeing that many of these businesses and platforms rested on shaky and unsustainable foundations,” said Lee Reiners, a former Federal Reserve official who teaches at Duke University Law School. “The music has stopped.”

The "music stopping" is of course referencing the legendary Jeremy Irons in Margin Call (2011). :love:

 
Most senior business leaders expect quantum computing to have an impact soon, 48% by 2025 and 81% by 2030

I think this says more about the susceptibility of rich people to get sold on woo, and I wonder how many of these people ALSO put money in cryptocurrencies not quite realizing the contradiction. However it does mean you should be at least thinking about this if you are throwing money at crypto, because you know whoever you are buying from has thought about it.

While business leaders expect quantum computing to play a significant role in industry by 2030, some experts don't believe the tech is going to be ready for production deployment in the near future.

The findings, from a survey titled "2022 Quantum Readiness" commissioned by consultancy EY, refer to UK businesses, although it is likely that the conclusions are equally applicable to global organizations.

According to EY, 81 percent of senior UK executives expect quantum computing to have a significant impact in their industry within seven and a half years, with almost half (48 percent) believing that quantum technology will begin to transform industries as soon as 2025.

Meanwhile, EY claims that respondents were "almost unanimous" in their belief that quantum computing will create a moderate or high level of disruption for their own organization, industry sector, and the broader economy in the next five years.

The survey conducted in February-March 2022 covered 501 UK-based executives, all with senior roles in their organisations, who had to demonstrate at least a moderate (but preferably a high) level of understanding of quantum computing. EY said they originally approached 1,516 executives, but only 501 met this requirement, which in and of itself tells a tale.
The patent lawyers are already at it, unsurprisingly

Far and Huawei: Mystery quantum patent surfaces in China

Tech sites in the Far East were galvanized this week by the news of a mysterious quantum patent granted to Huawei in China. The patent number CN114613758A is apparently supposed to make it easier to produce quantum chips, and refers to a quantum chipset. The chipset is said to comprise a number of sub-chips mounted on a substrate, with a coupling structure to link them together and a "cavity mode suppression structure" at the edge of each sub-chip. Each of the sub-chips will carry a number of qubits. The patent is most likely just a quantum version of the multi-chip module approach seen in some current processors, and an analyst speculated that it may involve quantum dot technology.
 
The patent lawyers are already at it, unsurprisingly

Far and Huawei: Mystery quantum patent surfaces in China

Tech sites in the Far East were galvanized this week by the news of a mysterious quantum patent granted to Huawei in China. The patent number CN114613758A is apparently supposed to make it easier to produce quantum chips, and refers to a quantum chipset. The chipset is said to comprise a number of sub-chips mounted on a substrate, with a coupling structure to link them together and a "cavity mode suppression structure" at the edge of each sub-chip. Each of the sub-chips will carry a number of qubits. The patent is most likely just a quantum version of the multi-chip module approach seen in some current processors, and an analyst speculated that it may involve quantum dot technology.

I am not sure what is supposed to be mysterious about this. Ideas like this have been an active field of research in the last two decades.
 
I think this is the best cryptocurrency troll I have seen. I am not sure, but I think it is proposing to use Maxwell's demon to transfer electricity on the blockchain. It is written by Maxwell Murialdo and Jonathan L. Belof. It is a nearly 15,000 word white paper with formulas and all, it must have taken ages.

Was this trolled, or are they in on it?
 
Last edited:
I think this says more about the susceptibility of rich people to get sold on woo, and I wonder how many of these people ALSO put money in cryptocurrencies not quite realizing the contradiction.

I had the same thought so I researched this, and there do exist algorithms that protect you against quantum computers.. We had this discussion here already I believe, but some blockchains do already have these algorithms in place. They are quick to point out to this in their marketing, in that they are "quantum computing resistant" or whatever they call it.

Somebody else pointed out that there is a hypothetical class of quantum computers that no algorithm can protect against. This appears to be true, but I really don't remember any of the details unfortunately. It seems that this class of quantum computers is still very far away, but having said that.. like I said.. I can't remember many of the details.

It does not appear to be something that crypto devs & founders are too worried about at the time. From what I understand, the algorithms in place should protect us against several generations of industrial scale quantum computers at least. What happens 200 years from now when quantum computers can solve any problem in 1 second no matter what it is? I would love to ask that question to somebody like Vitalik Buterin, the founder of Ethereum.. who seems like a very intelligent guy.
 
I had the same thought so I researched this, and there do exist algorithms that protect you against quantum computers.. We had this discussion here already I believe, but some blockchains do already have these algorithms in place. They are quick to point out to this in their marketing, in that they are "quantum computing resistant" or whatever they call it.

Somebody else pointed out that there is a hypothetical class of quantum computers that no algorithm can protect against. This appears to be true, but I really don't remember any of the details unfortunately. It seems that this class of quantum computers is still very far away, but having said that.. like I said.. I can't remember many of the details.

It does not appear to be something that crypto devs & founders are too worried about at the time. From what I understand, the algorithms in place should protect us against several generations of industrial scale quantum computers at least. What happens 200 years from now when quantum computers can solve any problem in 1 second no matter what it is? I would love to ask that question to somebody like Vitalik Buterin, the founder of Ethereum.. who seems like a very intelligent guy.
These algorithms will protect those blockchains, but that will not help people who have all their money in bitcoin today if quantum computers are going to be impacting 48% of businesses in 30 months.

BTW, there are loads of people linking apparently seriously to that Maxwell's demon cryptocurrency paper, including Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory on the .gov domain. As I say, I could be wrong, but it really looks like there are people who are paid to know how this works talking about actually using the Maxwell's demon and the blockchain as a method of storing and transmitting electricity without the grid. You cannot believe everything you read online.
 
Of course hindsight is 20/20
Gates Says Crypto Based on ‘Greater Fool Theory’
BY ALYSSA LUKPAT

Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates said he thinks cryptocurrencies and NFTs are 100% based on the greater fool theory. “You have an asset class that’s 100% based on some sort of greater fool theory that somebody’s going to pay more for it than I do,” Mr. Gates said. Mr. Gates, who for years has lampooned cryptocurrencies, said Tuesday at a TechCrunch event in Berkeley, Calif., that people bought cryptocurrencies and NFTs based on the idea that, no matter its price, it could be sold for higher because “somebody’s going to pay more for it than I do.” The 66-year-old billionaire was referring to the notion that overvalued assets will keep going up because there are enough people willing to pay high prices for them. He joked that “expensive digital images of monkeys” would “improve the world immensely.” He said that he wasn’t involved in “any of those things” either long or short.

Other wealthy investors and executives, including Warren Buffett and Jamie Dimon, have also expressed skepticism about cryptocurrencies. Mr. Buffett once called bitcoin “rat poison squared.” NFTs, or nonfungible tokens, are digital proofs of a purchase for goods like art, digital music and sneakers. After surging in popularity, their demand appears to be flatlining recently.

Rising interest rates have crushed risky bets across the financial markets—and NFTs are among the most speculative. In referencing NFTs, Mr. Gates appeared to be commenting on a monkey from the Bored Ape Yacht Club NFT collection. He said he preferred asset classes “like a farm where they have the output or a company where they make products.”

His comments come as bit-coin and other cryptocurrencies have slid sharply in recent days amid a broad global market rout, undoing much of the gains at the beginning of the pandemic when a wave of investors started betting on digital currencies. Further waves of reckoning have swept through the crypto-currency industry this week. Crypto exchange Coinbase Global Inc. said it would cut almost a fifth of its staff and crypto lender Celsius Network LLC, one of the largest crypto lenders, told users on Sunday night that it was pausing all withdrawals, swaps and transfers between accounts because of extreme market conditions. The company has hired a law firm to examine restructuring options. Mr. Gates is the world’s fourth-richest person with a net worth of $113 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. He wrote in a Q& A session on Reddit last month that he didn’t own any cryptocurrencies. “I like investing in things that have valuable output,” he said.

“The value of crypto,” he added, “is just what some other person decides someone else will pay for it.”

1655409566876
 
Q&A from WSJ

Dear Quentin,
I read a letter from a reader last year who was suffering from crypto FOMO, and I have been following the crypto markets ever since. I felt like I missed the bus on Bitcoin, but now feel like my time has come. Is it time to go big or go home?
I have another 25 years of a boring 9-to-5 job, and I just want out. The markets are tanking, and there’s talk of recession. I sit here day after day, doing the same old drudgery, and I want to have some hope that I may have an exit strategy.
Should I buy Bitcoin BTCUSD, -0.29% and Ethereum ETHE, -1.12% ETHUSD, -0.74%, and keep it as an early escape or even a retirement strategy? My 401(k) is a shadow of what it was last year.

Can you please help?

Always on the Sidelines

Dear Sidelines,
I remember that letter vividly. He wrote: “I’m too old to sit and hope I can make up for the lost time by safely investing my little bit of money, and getting 5% returns on it for the next 15 years.” And I replied: “Dabble in crypto if you like, but again at your own peril. The same is true of the stock market. There are no guaranteed get-rich-quick schemes.”

Nothing has changed. Many risks remain. I understand your frustrations. You feel trapped, and cryptocurrencies seem (or seemed) like a good get-rich-quick or get-rich-in-the-not-too-far-off-future plan. Neither of those prospects is likely, as you would have to risk a lot of money to fulfill that dream and would still end up losing your shirt, like many investors in crypto have.

Of course, the key with any investment is to buy low and sell high. Crypto investor Josh Rager has done his own analysis on the recent highs and lows of Bitcoin, and sees lows of $17,000, $14,000 and at $11,000. He stresses that these are his own opinions based on previous bounces. “The equities market is going to have a big impact overall on what Bitcoin will do,” he cautions.

“It’s going to be years from now, hopefully in the next decade, where we see Bitcoin break away from the equities market,” he said. Buying the bottom is easier said than done, especially with a volatile asset like Bitcoin. But he, like The Moneyist, is not giving financial advice, or telling you to buy at any level. When it comes to crypto, like any investment, it’s every man and every woman for himself and herself.

‘Given the volatility in crypto markets amid uncertainty over inflation and the prospect of recession, you may benefit from your 401(k) long before you do any cryptocurrency investment.’ There are, of course, people who have ridden out the peaks and valleys and still believe that there’s value in Bitcoin in the long run, such as this investor who believes Bitcoin has long-term prospects of reaching $250,000 and above, given that there will come a time when there will be no more mining of the coin after the 21 million cap is reached. Some estimate that year will be 2140.

About that 21 million Bitcoin limit: “This is determined by bitcoin’s source code which was programmed by its creator(s), Satoshi Nakamoto, and cannot be changed. Once all bitcoin is mined, the amount of coins in circulation will remain fixed at that level permanently,” according to a report by Coinbase COIN, +0.33%.

“The rate at which new Bitcoin are mined is geared to slow down over time,” the report says. “The reward for mining each block of bitcoin — which is done every 10 minutes — halves every 210,000 blocks. That’s roughly once every four years. As of 2022, the reward per block had diminished from its initial reward of 50 BTC per block in 2009 to just 6.25 bitcoin.”

Given the volatility in crypto markets amid uncertainty over inflation and the prospect of recession, you may benefit from your 401(k) long before you do any cryptocurrency investment. In fact, the crypto lending platform Celsius Networks LLC said Sunday that it was pausing all withdrawals, swaps and transfers between accounts “due to extreme market conditions.”

Some economists, like Peter Schiff, are big-time skeptics. He tweeted that with Bitcoin dropping below key support at $25,000 and Ethereum below $1,300, the combined market cap of nearly 20,000 cryptos have broken below $1 trillion, from a record-high of $3 trillion. “That’s $2 trillion down, $1 trillion left to go,” he wrote. “The last trillion will be the most painful.”

Charles Schwab, meanwhile, calls Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies speculative investments. “We don’t believe that Bitcoin fits within traditional asset allocation models at this time, as it is neither a traditional commodity, such as gold, nor a traditional currency,” the Schwab Center for Financial Research says in a blog post. “Bitcoin’s dramatic volatility is driven primarily by supply and demand, not inherent value.”

Look to the long-term security of your 401(k) over the next 25 years as a safe haven for your retirement. You can only occupy one room at a time, one day at a time and, hopefully, one worry at a time. Spending more than you can afford to lose in Bitcoin, allowing your emotions to rule your finances, and trying to time the market may lead to greater disappointment. You want out now, but what will you do if you are given an out? My best guess is your fears and anxieties would find a new place to set up shop. Work gives you structure, a purpose and hopefully the kind of social interaction that makes us all feel like we are contributing something to the larger community.

Be careful of exit strategies that appear too good to be true.
 
So much FUD everywhere, it's almost comical how fast we went from everyone raving about this space to crapping all over it

I suppose that's exactly what'd you expect from such a volatile asset class
 
About that 21 million Bitcoin limit: “This is determined by bitcoin’s source code which was programmed by its creator(s), Satoshi Nakamoto, and cannot be changed. Once all bitcoin is mined, the amount of coins in circulation will remain fixed at that level permanently,” according to a report by Coinbase COIN, +0.33%.
No, the amount of coins in circulation will decrease as people lose their keys:
A 2017 report from Chainalysis, a forensics company, estimated that between 2.78 million and 3.79 million bitcoins have been lost. That’s out of a total of nearly 19 million circulating today.​
Work gives you structure, a purpose and hopefully the kind of social interaction that makes us all feel like we are contributing something to the larger community.
Arbeit macht frei says capitalist.
So much FUD everywhere, it's almost comical how fast we went from everyone raving about this space to crapping all over it
I suppose that's exactly what'd you expect from such a volatile asset class
The actual people are pretty consistent, in this thread at least.
 
Am I just missing something, or is there some serious emperor's new clothes going on here? Added to the cryptocurrency backed by Maxwell's Demon that I wrote about above, there is this article from Cointelegraph:

The first port of call for a significant drawdown is the 200-week simple moving average (200 SMA), traders and analysts agree.
The 200 SMA has never broken its own uptrend, and the hope is that reaching it will allow bulls a period of respite.
From investopedia:

A simple moving average (SMA) is an arithmetic moving average calculated by adding recent prices and then dividing that figure by the number of time periods in the calculation average.
So 200-week SMA = arithmetic mean of weekly prices. Therefore "200 SMA has never broken its own uptrend" means there is no week i for which mean(i-200:i) < mean(i-201:i-1). Let us look at those values for i = recent weeks, from here:

Spoiler Table of bitcoin prices now and 200 weeks ago :
[table=head]
Date|Open|High|Low|Close*|Adj Close**|Volume
Jun 18, 2022|20,495.80|20,736.04|18,926.51|19,239.16|19,239.16|32,116,422,656
Jun 13, 2022|26,737.58|26,795.59|20,178.38|20,471.48|20,471.48|232,346,535,865
Jun 06, 2022|29,910.28|31,693.29|26,762.65|26,762.65|26,762.65|215,929,645,934
May 30, 2022|31,792.55|31,957.29|29,375.69|29,906.66|29,906.66|130,247,383,253
Aug 27, 2018|6,710.80|7,306.31|6,689.71|7,272.72|7,272.72|30,229,310,000
Aug 20, 2018|6,500.51|6,816.79|6,297.93|6,707.26|6,707.26|25,842,490,000
Aug 13, 2018|6,341.36|6,617.35|5,971.05|6,506.07|6,506.07|30,898,230,000
Aug 06, 2018|7,062.94|7,166.55|6,109.03|6,322.69|6,322.69|32,181,950,000
[/table]

For every value of i in now - 0:2, and any of the period metrics (Open, High, Low, Close) SMA will be lower for i than i-1, or I am stupid (which is possible).

But given that, how do they then use this metric:

Historically, #BTC tends to wick -14% to -28% below the 200-week MA
A -14% wick this time around would translate to a ~$19000 $BTC
A -28% wick would mean BTC could reach as low as ~$15500 before reversing to the upside
And this is the data they present to justify it:
Spoiler Graph of Bitcoin price + SMA :
media%2FFVIRWjcXoAMhe5Z.jpg


So if I am reading this correctly, the data upon which they is basing their statement of historical trends is 3 events, 2 in 2015 and one in early coivd. And this is presented as a useful measure upon which to make predictions about the future.
 
Q&A from WSJ
About that 21 million Bitcoin limit: “This is determined by bitcoin’s source code which was programmed by its creator(s), Satoshi Nakamoto, and cannot be changed. Once all bitcoin is mined, the amount of coins in circulation will remain fixed at that level permanently,” according to a report by Coinbase COIN, +0.33%.

This seems to be based on a misunderstanding of bitcoin. The code can be changed, if the miners agree. So the limit could be increased. I suspect that this is very unlikely, but that is based on social - not technical - factors.
 
Bulls will use a different set of formulas than bears to predict the future.
 
Dollars!
Pounds!
Euros!
Yen!
Shekels!

With your powers combined, I am Captain Real Money!

Crappy bitcoins
I will cheer-oh
When their value
goes down to zero
 
So much FUD everywhere, it's almost comical how fast we went from everyone raving about this space to crapping all over it

I suppose that's exactly what'd you expect from such a volatile asset class

Everyone raving? Certainly not. Just review this threat. Plenty of people say both bitcoin and "the blockchain" for what they were: useless technologies searching for some use which could be sold.

Yes, "the blockchain" too is useless. A central database is always far more efficient and the issue of trust always exists, "the blockchain" does not magic it sway. States enforce the law (including any and all contracts, including those in "crypto") and you already must trust their machinery to have any recourse.
 
Celsius, described as "a fake bank LARPing as Robin Hood", employed some fun people. The CFO and CRO have both been arrested for money laundering (before this whole thing happened), and the head of lending, in charge of giving out billions deposited by users, is a 24 year old who was hired as a "marketing assistant" 4 years ago, and before that she worked as an adult actress. Ref = 25 minute youtube.

Below is the price and volume graph for bitcoin. Volume was high but dropping as it approached $20k, dropped as it stabilised above $20k for a couple of days, went up as it broke the $20k mark, down as it broke $19k and up again as it approached $18k and then rocoved. I could tell a story about whales picking points to liquidate their assets, but I do not really know.

CEmV2mv.png
 
Back
Top Bottom