The Cultural Department - Term 1

[Falcon02]

Cyc, I agree with ALL your suggestions.

And about those prime Egyptian cities... I think those should be first on our military list when we finish our campaign against America.

 

[eyrei]

I do not see a library in Khatovar as a high priority until it builds at least one more settler. The city of Lisht will likely be raised by immortals very soon, as it will not grow for another twenty turns. We must expand our culture with more cities first.

The most efficient way to build a library in Khatovar would be to rush it after it builds a settler, and then grows to size 2 again. With a garrison and 3 luxuries, the unhappiness would not even be noticed. This way it would take about 2 turns to build the library, as opposed to 20 or so. I know many of the citizens of Phoenatica oppose pop-rushing, so a poll would certainly be posted when this issue is at the forefront. Regardless, unless there is a majority disagreement with Khatovar producing a settler next, it will stay that way. Feel free to post a poll, I will abide by its results, though I would then campaign for a prompt pop-rush.

 

[Falcon02]

I've just noticed we keep on talking about whipping. While I don't object to the necessity, I must say I will be VERY glad when our rushes put a dent in the treasury rather than killing part of our population, and we won't have to bring EVERY rush to poll, just the more expensive and contraversial ones.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Falcon02
I've just noticed we keep on talking about whipping. While I don't object to the necessity, I must say I will be VERY glad when our rushes put a dent in the treasury rather than killing part of our population, and we won't have to bring EVERY rush to poll, just the more expensive and contraversial ones.

I too, look forward to this.

 

[ssmith619]

Argh, what's all of this talk about razing cities??? Unless you are going to build a city right over it, there is absolutely no point in razing cities. Our culture is high enough that we should be able to suppress any uprising and flipping, so why not just inhabit the city? We could keep whatever primitive building they built and we wouldn't have to think up another name! Plus, do you REALLY want to rape and pillage that Egyptian town? I'm totally against razing any town, especially when we have the highest culture rating.

 

[Cyc]

@eyrei - The DOC feels your approach to Khatovar's production is totally inappropriate.why should the city wait until it loses 2 pop for a settler, then wait till it grows again so you can kill off the population with pop rushing, again. It is such a waste. Let it build it's library naturally, gain a tile or two so that it will be able to produce units quicker and produce more gold per turn and a number of other benefits naturally associated with city growth. Your actions to stunt the growth of Khatovar have not gone unnoticed. Let the city build what it needs to help the nation grow and to develop. The DOC feels your recommendation borders on the absurd.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by ssmith619
Argh, what's all of this talk about razing cities??? Unless you are going to build a city right over it, there is absolutely no point in razing cities. Our culture is high enough that we should be able to suppress any uprising and flipping, so why not just inhabit the city? We could keep whatever primitive building they built and we wouldn't have to think up another name! Plus, do you REALLY want to rape and pillage that Egyptian town? I'm totally against razing any town, especially when we have the highest culture rating.

The town of Lisht will be auto-razed because it is only pop 1.

 

[Cyc]

@ssmith619 - your opinion about razing cities is felt by many here and is the general consensus, unless absolutely necessary (whatever that means). There IS nothing we can do about a size 1 city.

 

[Falcon02]

There IS nothing we can do about a size 1 city.

Well we COULD wait for it to grow THEN capture it, but that really makes NO sense what so ever, which means "There IS nothing we can do about a size 1 city."

But on the productive end of things....

I don't feel that Eyrei is making an ABSURD suggestion.

-We need a library in Khatovar.
-Getting it up quickly could help us with our current endevours. (defending from our enemies and taking their land, along with getting a good start.)

Taking these things into concideration I feel that Rushing, while it may not be the best thing to do, at least deserves to be brought up for discussion. Some times the whip is called for, but we must decide that the benifits will outweigh the penalties if we do it.

 

[eyrei]

Cyc: I am trying to keep a good sense of humor about this, but your constant attempts to provoke me and damage my reputation with baseless accusations and attacks on my character are unacceptable. I strongly suggest that the DOC at least attempt to maintain a professional relationship with the Domestic Department for the good of the empire.

As Falcon said, on a more productive note, the DOC's recommendation has been taken into consideration and rejected based on the fact that settler production is far more important than defending our cultural borders from cities that will not even exist much longer. Again, feel free to post a poll on the subject, and I will abide by its results.

 

[Cyc]

They are not baseless accusations eyrei. you have been watched very closely since the begining of the game.

As, at this point in the game, 6 of the AI are on the verge of monarchy or the republic, we are sure to get one of these through the Great Library very soon. At which time we can pay for the rushing of our improvements as opposed to wasting our citizens. If we were to start the library now and not pop rush, we could wait until the cost of paying for it was acceptable to the Domestic Department. This would keep the city of Khatovar from continually being knock down to a size one town and having a slow growth period back up. It would also allow Khatovar to produce any units, improvements, and income on a larger scale. It's a win-win situation.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc
They are not baseless accusations eyrei. you have been watched very closely since the begining of the game.

As, at this point in the game, 6 of the AI are on the verge of monarchy or the republic, we are sure to get one of these through the Great Library very soon. At which time we can pay for the rushing of our improvements as opposed to wasting our citizens. If we were to start the library now and not pop rush, we could wait until the cost of paying for it was acceptable to the Domestic Department. This would keep the city of Khatovar from continually being knock down to a size one town and having a slow growth period back up. It would also allow Khatovar to produce any units, improvements, and income on a larger scale. It's a win-win situation.

It is not a good idea to switch governments during a war such as this. It will be probably about 40 turns at least before we switch governments, and we will not have surplus gold for a while after that. As far as being knocked down to size one all the time, it will continue until we have build all the settlers we need. The only way we can afford to build a library there is to rush it, because otherwise, our expansion will completely halt. While this war is going on, almost all of our cities will be producing units to fight, while one or two will be producing settlers. The time it would take to build a library in Khatovar without rushing it is unacceptable.

I still find your position as cultural minister strange, as you attempt to attack me as willing to pop-rush, yet you ignore the fact that our civilization would be almost completely without culture if we hadn't used pop-rushing. Your position was created so that cultural concerns would not be forgotten by the other departments. It was not created to complain every time a cultural improvement is rushed.

Why don't we drop this? It benefits noone. If you do not like my policies feel free to voice your opinion, and run against me in the next election. Have you noticed that noone has jumped on your bandwagon to criticize and threaten me? The issue you take so personally has seemingly been resolved to most peoples' satisfaction, as noone else has posted about it in days. Let it drop, please.

 

[ssmith619]

This is not a popularity contest, eyrei. This is becoming like a political party, and I would not have it be like that, for I would gladly rush to the side of Cyc. No one is critisizing you, they are critisizing your position on this one issue. Don't take everything so personally, for this is a democracy and if you have a bad idea no one will spare you their feelings, at least someone will object and others will gladly rush to their side. As for both of you, you must take this less personally. Our empire is large, and although not the most techonologically advaced, Lincoln's empire is within our grasp. Something is going right, and it's safe to bet that Cyc is doing a good job balancing culture and whatever else, and you eyrei, you are doing a good job in the Domestic Department since our citizens are happy and our cashbox is growing. I suggest we put aside our disputes, and warn you eyrei, many people would gladly jump to the aid of Cyc. I hope you to in the future can resolve your differences without being so bitter, and I must remind you, you each have your own point of views and neither of you will budge, so why not just bring it up tomorrow during the chat session (Cyc, I'll be sure to appose it in your absence, if that is the Culture Department's feeling) and let everyone else decide?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Since both of you have such differing opinions, post a poll about the library issue and let the people decide. That's the whole point of the game. You both have arguements for your choices, so spell them out in the poll and let the vote stand.

If you guys can't end this before it gets worse, I will. I will not let this get to personal attacks against anyone from anyone.

 

[Cyc]

That's OK, Duke. I'm tired of debating the point. I wasn't going to say anything more about it as I have too much to do. The only reason i took it this far is I felt I had to in a patriot sense, i suppose. Couldn't give it up without a fight. Besides, Eyrei has too much power for one individual.
ssmith619 thank you for your support. Totally blew me away. It's hard to find support these days. Hopefully i will be able to return the favor.

 

[SKILORD]

grow up children.

Eyrei has too much power for one individual.

is criticzizing his policies going to help this? If you want to change the constitution call for a change to it, don't criticzize an able official.

just so i won't seem too biased:

I still find your position as cultural minister strange, as you attempt to attack me as willing to pop-rush, yet you ignore the fact that our civilization would be almost completely without culture if we hadn't used pop-rushing. Your position was created so that cultural concerns would not be forgotten by the other departments. It was not created to complain every time a cultural improvement is rushed.

you can't really tell him how to run things in his department.

 

[donsig]

SKILORD: I agree with your point about changing the constitution but there is also the question of overstepping constitutional authority. You were elected governor yet because of discussion regarding geographically based provinces what you actually govern was cast in doubt. While this doubt lingered eyrei was content to act as governor for all our cities. I think this is the type of thing Cyc is trying to point out and so have I.

Our domestic leader has taken his job to heart and should be commended for his work but he should also be more aware of the limit of his authority. And I will add before this all rekindles that I think eyrei has been more aware of these limits since the recent constitutional debate.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
SKILORD: I agree with your point about changing the constitution but there is also the question of overstepping constitutional authority. You were elected governor yet because of discussion regarding geographically based provinces what you actually govern was cast in doubt. While this doubt lingered eyrei was content to act as governor for all our cities. I think this is the type of thing Cyc is trying to point out and so have I.

Our domestic leader has taken his job to heart and should be commended for his work but he should also be more aware of the limit of his authority. And I will add before this all rekindles that I think eyrei has been more aware of these limits since the recent constitutional debate.

I also think part of the problem is that I am VP and domestic leader, two of the more powerful positions at first glance. However, VP is a nearly powerless position, and this is why The Duck of Flanders appointed a cabinet member to it. I actually did not even want the job, but it made sense for me to start out with it, as it did not affect the COC, because the domestic advisor is right after the VP.

As far as my continuing to govern after Skilord's election, I do not think that is fair. With all of the things going on, I did not realize that I should be passing part of my authority to the new governor. As soon as this was brought to my attention, I immediately supported Skilord governing the 6th-10th cities until we could decide on geographical borders.

I have apologized on a couple of occasions for the rushing of the library in Pherris without following the due process of the constitution (even though pop-rushing is not addressed in the constitution, which also makes me consider this an unfair accusation), and I apologize again. It will not happen again that pop-rushing is used without a popular vote well in advance. I believe my reasons for doing so were good, and that it was the right decision to use pop-rushing in this instance.

I am not power hungry, cruel, or conniving as some would lead you to believe. Please look at the facts, or lack thereof when considering this situation. I do not pretend that I was in the right throughout this entire situation, but I do believe I was libeled and victimized by demagoguery.

Finally, sssmith619, I am concerned that someone would immediately take to threatening on their first day as a member of this game. This sort of behavior is particularly unproductive when one knows little of the situation. Please refrain in the future from threatening me and we will get along well. As most members of this game will attest, I do not mind people disagreeing with my policies, and do take a close look at their concerns. When they begin to be insulting, it makes things very difficult, and a lot less fun for all of us. You seem interested in the game, and I believe you will make an excellent citizen, whether we agree on things or not.

This is the last I intend to say on this subject, and I hope we can all get over this. Government scandals tend to become old news quickly in real life, so hopefully the same will happen here so that we can get back to the business of running our country.

Peace.

 

[ssmith619]

alright, lol, think i've learned to shut up and not speak unless spoken to :-X

 

[Cyc]

Please welcome ssmith619 to the Department of Cuture. He has been assigned the Chat Room Representative position. He will have authority to relay the wishes of the DOC to the President or player in Chat Room Session.

Sorry I couldn't attend today's chat. I was unavoidably delayed. I didn't even have a chance to get to a computer to post a notice. This is the first chat I have missed completely, and feel really bad about it. My apologies especially to ssmith619.