h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Except its not murder, its the death penalty.Zarn said:
The Death Penalty: Full Debate
- Thread starter sourboy
- Start date
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
h4ppy said:
The person's life is under your comlpete control, as that person has been captured. There is no need to MURDER that person. It is murder, because you have no moral need to kill that person.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Morals and government shouldn't mix.Zarn said:
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
h4ppy said:
I still call it exceeding authority. The execution is for pure vengeance and not to keep others out of harm's way.
G
Gainy
Guest
Not vengance. If that person showed a complete disregard to his/her victim's right to live, why should anyone else show the murderer that obligation? If they feel it is right to murder someone else, then they should have no qualms with being executed.
Fellow prisoners could still be harmed. Besides that, are you saying others would not be out of harms way if the murderer was executed?
Custody costs constant installments of money. A swift execution wouldn't.
No it is not. Prisoners have 'rights'. In addition, what goes on in their mind can not be controlled. They should have no rights, even to think. Killing em would sort that out.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Why is vengeance such a bad thing anyway? It's very satisfying.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Many criminals are repeat offenders, such a system would keep people out of harms way.Zarn said:
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
h4ppy said:
Not if you keeped them locked up...
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
If we keep them in prison for life then we would have over crowded jails but if we execute all criminals we could solve overcrowding problems. (cemetaries would not be overcrowded if we use "community graves" where we bury a bunch of people in the same pit, or cremation if you are against communal burying)Zarn said:
Nobody
Gangster
My country hasnt had the Death Penalty for aboot 50 years and i dont think it should be brought back. While do thing murders (a others) deserve to die i dont think there is a system good enough to govern the use of the punishment. Well heres a list of things i think should carry the Death Penalty if it could be handed out properly.
1.some Murder. (hang)
2. almost all rape. (hangO
3. Sickos doing stuff to kids. (Hang) (maybe childporn just a good lashing)
4. Drug importation. (hang)
5. Terrorism (hang) (this is so if you hold and bunch of kids hostage but dont killing any you still get dead)
6. Treason (hung drawn and 1/4ed)
7. espionage (just one shoot in the head. not to painfull)
8. Desertion during war time (same as above)
9. Insulting me (boling)
10. Witchcraft (burning)
11. Premarital sex (stoneing)
12. being any religion not mine (burning)
13. J walking (burying up to head in desert, then having dead coated in goat blood and having fire beattles realesd)
nine onwards are jokes
1.some Murder. (hang)
2. almost all rape. (hangO
3. Sickos doing stuff to kids. (Hang) (maybe childporn just a good lashing)
4. Drug importation. (hang)
5. Terrorism (hang) (this is so if you hold and bunch of kids hostage but dont killing any you still get dead)
6. Treason (hung drawn and 1/4ed)
7. espionage (just one shoot in the head. not to painfull)
8. Desertion during war time (same as above)
9. Insulting me (boling)
10. Witchcraft (burning)
11. Premarital sex (stoneing)
12. being any religion not mine (burning)
13. J walking (burying up to head in desert, then having dead coated in goat blood and having fire beattles realesd)
nine onwards are jokes
Pasi Nurminen
Deity
Nobody said:
So, essentially, you wish to return to the glory days that were the Dark Ages?
CenturionV
Warrior Forever
Wow thats a little extreme, even for me, and I'm the generally the extreme one here.....Nobody said:
I really don't think that any are deserving of death besides murder and rape, and maybe witchcraft if you can prove it
CenturionV
Warrior Forever
I was talking about the 3 to 8, I really don't see any of these as death worthy, as repulsive as they are.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Terrorism, treason, and espionage aren't death worthy? You're kidding right?
CenturionV
Warrior Forever
Well according to his post none of these involve the actual death of another human being and thus do not deserve death, IN AND OF THEMSELVES, for instance if I take a few people hostage and am branded a terrorist but kill or harm no one, then I should be executed? If I feel my country is not correct in fighting a war and then join the other side as a civilian worker, should I be shot? If I steal the plans for some large businesses latest aircraft engine and commit espionage, then I should be killed?h4ppy said:
He never specified the type of espionage, the extent of the terrorist, or the circumstances of the treason, and made a blanket statement that they where always deserving of death.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Yes, if it is for terroristic reasons (not just a robbery gone wrong or anything like that)CenturionV said:
yes.
Yes.
Elgalad
Bully!
I chose option 2:
Dictionary.com definitions
mur-der
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous. The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows.
ex-e-cu-tion
n.
1.
a. The act of executing something
b. The state of being executed
2. The manner, style, or result of performance
3. The act or an instance of putting to death or being put to death as a lawful penalty.
4. Law.
a. The carrying into effect of a court judgment.
b. A write empowering an officer to enforce a judgment.
c. Validation of a legal document by the performance of all necessary formalities.
5. Archaic. Effective, punitive, or destructive action.
hom-i-cide
n.
1. The killing of one person by another.
2. A person who kills another person.
It is very important to note the difference between these three words. When a person takes another's life unlawfully, it is Murder, or unlawful Homicide. When a soldier in war acting under the lawful orders of his commanders takes another's life, or a law enforcement officer kills a criminal in the process of committing a crime, or a citizen lawfully defends life or property with deadly force, that is a lawful Homicide. When the State punishes a convicted criminal, who has been sentenced and exhausted the appeals process, that is an Execution.
These words are Not interchangeable. Doing so only confuses the issue which is that Murder is an unlawful act of the highest order, an assault directly on one of the basic tenets of Civilization: All persons are endowed (by their Creator) with the right to life. When an individual illegally takes another's life, they Should forfeit their own. Our society has greatly deviated from the original intent of Punishment and changed it from the penalty that one pays for violating the law to become instead some sort of 'reeducational correction system' that exists to persuade a criminal to change their ways.
One need only look at the recidivism rate among criminals to see how this has failed us. There is no Reason for a criminal to stop their behavior if their worst penalty for a crime is several years spent as a ward of the state, where all their basic needs are met until their sentence ends.
Note that I am most certainly Not implying that prison or the penitentiary are a fun place to be, a resort hotel. But I Am saying that they have become a training ground for career criminals, the very antithesis of what they should be.
There are problems in all levels of the legal system, that is clear. But unless there remains an absolutely defined Ultimate punishment for the severest examples of criminal malfeasance, none of the lesser penalties will truly matter.
-Elgalad
I would also add these crimes as well: Espionage, Treason, Drug related Murder, Desertion during wartime, and War Crimes. I chose option 2 instead of 1, because I do not view the Death Penalty as a legal tool for deterring crime or instilling fear, but rather a method for the state to punish the Worst Capital crimes. When the State applies this punishment, it is in essence admitting that there is no hope for reforming the criminal who committed these crimes and that the criminal has, by their own actions, forfeited all of their rights including the right to life. There Is a deterrent effect on other potential criminals which is beneficial, but that should never be the primary reason that we enforce it.
Dictionary.com definitions
mur-der
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous. The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows.
ex-e-cu-tion
n.
1.
a. The act of executing something
b. The state of being executed
2. The manner, style, or result of performance
3. The act or an instance of putting to death or being put to death as a lawful penalty.
4. Law.
a. The carrying into effect of a court judgment.
b. A write empowering an officer to enforce a judgment.
c. Validation of a legal document by the performance of all necessary formalities.
5. Archaic. Effective, punitive, or destructive action.
hom-i-cide
n.
1. The killing of one person by another.
2. A person who kills another person.
It is very important to note the difference between these three words. When a person takes another's life unlawfully, it is Murder, or unlawful Homicide. When a soldier in war acting under the lawful orders of his commanders takes another's life, or a law enforcement officer kills a criminal in the process of committing a crime, or a citizen lawfully defends life or property with deadly force, that is a lawful Homicide. When the State punishes a convicted criminal, who has been sentenced and exhausted the appeals process, that is an Execution.
These words are Not interchangeable. Doing so only confuses the issue which is that Murder is an unlawful act of the highest order, an assault directly on one of the basic tenets of Civilization: All persons are endowed (by their Creator) with the right to life. When an individual illegally takes another's life, they Should forfeit their own. Our society has greatly deviated from the original intent of Punishment and changed it from the penalty that one pays for violating the law to become instead some sort of 'reeducational correction system' that exists to persuade a criminal to change their ways.
One need only look at the recidivism rate among criminals to see how this has failed us. There is no Reason for a criminal to stop their behavior if their worst penalty for a crime is several years spent as a ward of the state, where all their basic needs are met until their sentence ends.
Note that I am most certainly Not implying that prison or the penitentiary are a fun place to be, a resort hotel. But I Am saying that they have become a training ground for career criminals, the very antithesis of what they should be.
There are problems in all levels of the legal system, that is clear. But unless there remains an absolutely defined Ultimate punishment for the severest examples of criminal malfeasance, none of the lesser penalties will truly matter.
-Elgalad
Similar threads
