The Deity Challenge Line-up #36 - Assyria

I'm looking at 1NE, for first turn access to the cows, and what is likely higher production, because there's no production to the west.

That misses the river (watermill, garden, hydro plant). Cap gets enough of a buff that it can be okay on flat.

I am current trying 5 city Tradition and put 3 of 4 the expos all on hills. That is working much better so far! First expo on coast, next two hills. NC was still late, but at least was on four cities. Then I put one more expo on the good mountain spot I missed in my Liberty play. Eventually the NE neighbor DOW'd me for that, but it went very poorly for him. But I could not get any of his cities before my spy in his cap reported that he no techs -- so I broke that off.

I think this map is much better suited for tall science play (easy map since AIs are far and will not DOW early ..at all)

I was never DOW'd in my Liberty game, very strange. Every turn I was expecting it though. Then everyone went Order, except civ in extreme NW who went Autocracy and civ in bottom right corner who went Freedom.

If the starting location wasn't so "in the middle" of 4-5 AIs domination play would've been easier...

I very much appreciate starting in the middle as I hate hitting an edge early, especially on a larger map. There are really only three neighbors.

I'm expecting the science city penalties to really hinder the AIs on this map

if the map is as big as you guys make it appear, i'm guessing AI will cripple their science by themselves going for mass expansion.

Some of the spammers (e.g., Hiawatha) are never strong with science -- but other than that, I never notice city spammers having trouble with science.
 
That misses the river (watermill, garden, hydro plant). Cap gets enough of a buff that it can be okay on flat.
My mistake. I thought that was still river there. I guess it's just the grid.
 
T192 update. Pretty clear now I'm behind the german deity LP (which was pretty late itself). Doubtful I'll get world phare since some AIs have 15+ cities and my cites have no production to speak of . Alex is being alex stealing my CS allies (~ 20 less happiness in 2 turns) .. As long as none 4 of the neighboring carpets of doom decides to wipe me in the next ~50 turns it might still be doable ..

Spoiler :
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Yeah with everyone having 20 cities, I definitely retract my view on domination on it. I think I'll replay the Germany map instead :lol:
 
Hmm maybe size small would have been more appropriate :p I recognized it was big but it exceed expectations. Oh well time to play Liberty people.

I'm still of the opinion 4-6 city tradition can win science before T230 without much issues on this map..

Liberty is problematic because unique luxuries are pretty far from each other and it takes a long while to set up and leaves you a bit over expanded in the middle of 4 huge AIs and the luxuries are usually on flatlands (low production). In my 3 attempts pyramids always went before T45 .. Culture I assume is bad since AIs are huge thus have huge culture reserve.. Diplo could work but not very early because of Alex.
 
I'm still of the opinion 4-6 city tradition can win science before T230 without much issues on this map..

Liberty is problematic because unique luxuries are pretty far from each other and it takes a long while to set up and leaves you a bit over expanded in the middle of 4 huge AIs and the luxuries are usually on flatlands (low production). In my 3 attempts pyramids always went before T45 .. Culture I assume is bad since AIs are huge thus have huge culture reserve.. Diplo could work but not very early because of Alex.

I started for a few turns yesterday and i agree. Like i anticipated, production is garbage so i settled away from the river 2 tiles east on a hill. Food will still be amazing for the cap and production will be decent at least.

And i agree with pedro mostly because of production. I think i'll settle 5/6 tradition cities on subpar location but aiming at getting decent production. Even if i miss out on river (and thus, gardens), i think it will be a lot more interesting than having such low prod.

Happiness shouldnt be much of an issue growing up with all those resources lying around. AIs being so far away makes me think they'll be more than willing to trade as i dont see any diplomatic issues coming there.

Guess we'll see
 
Has anyone been able to build some siege towers and do some early conquest?
If so what's your strategy?
 
I'm still of the opinion 4-6 city tradition can win science before T230 without much issues on this map.

I would loved to see that mapped out with sufficient detail for me to replicate. I cannot get a science win under T300.

I tried again 5 city Tradition. Southern neighbor launched on T317 again. I think I was doing a little better, at least I got Hubble this time. Got DOWed pretty good this time, almost certainly later one was because I proposed but failed to pass Order as World Ideology.

I am going to reset to Ideology pick and try Freedom and Diplo.
 
Alright, if there's enough gold lying around, I should be able to crank a decent TTP turtling SV possible in 270ish
 
Well I'm giving this another try - purely experimental :D. I moved my settler East to the hill adjacent the gems.

Rather than working food tiles I worked the gems purely to build a monument asap (maximum production), then switched to scout and then to shrine.
Possibly this pays off a little. I got my first social policy early so that means earlier settlers. Also scored a Pantheon at turn 41. Chose Oral Tradition - Focused on settling cities on the nearby luxuries to grow culture.

Seems to working better than last time - I was able to chop forests to build pyramids - that Wonder is a godsend on a poor production start. Things are looking better this time. I guess lots of small cities working gold tiles is the future here.

One thought though. I've finished Liberty and there is 1 Religion left available. I guess I should take a free Great Prophet and Found yeah?
 
Has anyone been able to build some siege towers and do some early conquest? If so what's your strategy?

I would like to hear about this too. I figure 3 CBs and 2 ST should be enough. Is that on Liberty, Honor, or Tradition? How many cities? I struggle having money to upgrade archers in a timely way.

I've finished Liberty and there is 1 Religion left available. I guess I should take a free Great Prophet and Found yeah?

Heck yeah! Lock in that sweet pantheon!
 
T229 update

Spoiler :

caught up in science, passed arts funding for good measure. Easily won world phare (lots of wasted hammers) but still ridiculously behind in culture (lost oracle and one free autocracy policy). Finished commerce, 1 off honor but only one in Autocracy (will need ~6) ..

Nebby shall be the first to fall (close capital and has the priceless Forbidden Palace & the mighty pyramids (think of all the railroads)) .. Again 8 cities settled and 0 owned oil ..Ottomans have autocracy so maybe save them for later - will start on prora next turn - might be able to snag it since he's not into modern yet ..

Another huge issue for domination on this map - lack of tourism will mean CRUSHING ideology pressure multiplied by the number of cities .. Will need to burn a lot and perhaps even build some choice hotels & airports .. Ottomans are autocracy but I don't feel a lot of cushioning from their side (game them more open borders to invite more shielding influence) ..

Spoiler :
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T281 update

Spoiler :

.. Arabia is tech leader (~11+ tech ahead of the pack and I'm currently stealing all his tech and oil ). Garbing pyramids & forbidden palace from Babylon was a huge win .. Probably won't be able to finish before T300 unless Arabia gifts me Stealth + Xcom but I'm starting to get pretty confident I'll be able to win it at least ..

Lost international games free policy to the otomans after sinking 1800+ hammers into it :( .. So sink even more for museums & broadcast towers .. The happiness issue will not be fixed until my tourism output Catches up in a big way ..More hammers sunk into hotels and airports at the very least ..

Spoiler :
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youtube playlist link
 
Heck yeah! Lock in that sweet pantheon!

Yep Got my religion! Yes was well worth it despite all the good beliefs being taken.
Took Ceremonial Burial, Guruship, Religious Community and Religious Texts/
Although I was shocked to find that the free Prophet bumps up the price of Great Engineers & Scientists - I had no idea that happened, that's the first time I've used the Liberty Finisher for a Prophet :confused:

Anyway regarding strategy what I've learnt thus far is. This map gives you 2 things in abundance; land and gold - so maximise both of them.

For playing wide I suggest settling on the hill near the gems and working the gems initially entirely to build a monument (forgoing food), then scout then shrine (right after pottery is researched).

With no ruins to rely on culture every turn you delay your monument means your +1 production from republic and your free settler is delayed. This will greatly slow your development so a monument must be highest priority (more important than population)
Settling on the hill and working the gems ensures you get monument + shrine asap. Your early population will suffer but you can catch up on that later - I'd regard policies and a pantheon to be more important. With no ruins scouts are less important anyway.

I'd fill out Liberty and prioritise on building the Pyramids chopping the trees near the gems with a stolen CS worker.
Faster tile improvement makes it a lot easier to put plantations on all that marsh.

If you can get a pantheon I'd go Oral Tradition certainly. With the huge sized map it will take ages for AI religions to reach you so even if you don't get a religion you'll hold your pantheon for a while.

Faith is pretty hard to get so the Liberty finisher is probably the most reliable means to get a religion. Production beliefs are worth their weight in gold here.

You'll settle all the plantations nearby obviously for gold - even if they're production poor sites - i.e. sugar. After you fill out Liberty focus 100% on the Commerce tree to get Mercantilism and wagon trains. Now here's the crux, this map has pretty poor productivity so therefore gold is the most important resource.
Spoiler :
However their are Cultural CSs nearby so make every effort to ally them


With Mercantilism & Big Ben your cities will catch up very quickly due to the crazy amount of gold you'll acquire. But even before I had those 2 items at times I was earning about 90gpt (selling luxuries to AIs) so that's enough gold to buy a workshop every several turns - that really gets those production poor cities going.

Everything else comes much faster then and you'll catch up on size and population growth very quickly. Ideologies favor Order the most with SkyScrapers (60% discount on buildings - hello!). Late game you'll catch up with hammers with all the rivers and hydro plants.

The other great advantage with Commerce is Mercenary Army. As your production is so low you'll find it hard to build a big army so Landsknechts are perfect for defense if you need them.

So in my opinion so far is that Commerce outweighs Rationalism for a Liberty game. That said you will suffer in science so hopefully you can make good use of spies. If you can propose a resolution on the World Council I'd highly recommend 'Scholars in Residence'.
 
Spoiler :
So, just finished this DCL.

As planned, i went for a tall scientific victory.

Went 4 city NC around t90. Education around t 120. Scientific theory around t170.

I planted all my cities in weird locations for such a victory, mostly because i wanted to have at least decent hammers in the early game. I got rid of rivers and favored camps\horses\hills + 2 lux as much as possible. Capital was set on the hill 2 tiles east for example.

I got a religion. I decided to go for it but not all in mostly by prioritizing shrine over monuments. Also i picked the +2 faith for my gems as a little help to get it. food for camps and culture for plantations were taken already so didnt have much obvious choices.

Still, managed to grab one and picked tithe\religious community\swords into plowshares\ +30% range propagation and culture for temples.

I got to enjoy my religion for a good time until i got mass spammed on one of my expos by never ending waves of prophets from all around the world lol. Still had gotten most benefits i wanted before that so wasnt much of an issue (had expos at 15/16 pop, cap at 25)

Never got DOWed, grabbed tech lead by reaching modern with oxford for radio. Went freedom and was in a permanent revolutionnary wave but still managed to keep happiness over 20 most of the time by buying luxes.

I signed maybe 10/15 RAs. Grabbed porcelaine tower.

Nothing really new really. A nice turtle game with a rather late finish time due to the slow early game with bad production and no ruins. Could have taken maybe 8/10 turns of it if i had got better gold income or pick commerce for big ben instead of the stupid aesthetics opener before rationalism (...)

Well, come to think of it, one thing is new ! First DCL without being DOWed by anyone :lol:

W7q6ChM.jpg
 
T326 Domination win

Spoiler :

Very tiresome map. Took a few reloads (early DOW I wasn't ready for & wrong social policy choice). Passing world ideology order din't help much .. Had to spend ~50 turns at ~ -100 ideology pressure unhappiness . Only managed to drop the pressure 1 turn before the win when my tourism influence got to 10% with two AIs ..Assyrian UA saved me tons of gpt and gold by allowing to cut science completely after combined arms and still get modern armor, Sidney opera house, CN tower, Hubble , radio , mech inf, etc all from stolen tech ..

Spoiler :
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