the dovillio

[Err0l]

Thread bumping because it's still relevant.

I got the idea of giving the Dov 1 additional hammer on tundra. This would not encourage settling in the tundra, you'll still need deer or a river (it's worse than plains, beause you can't build improvements on it except if riverside) but would make them better in tundra then, say, other civs and would actually create some synergies (like, say, fellowship of leaves, which is the most thematically fitting religion for them already). The production on tundra forests would be considerable and actually encourage getting sawmills...

Also another idea that is not 100% relevant: make city ruins explorable dungeons, and add a common result that gives you a beaker boost. (other results could be skellies, supplies, spectres, bronze weapons, ... no bosses tho) Would make conquest warfare more viable.

 

[echinococcus]

I think the Diovellas are superb as they are.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I'll second Err0l's suggestion about Doviello getting some boost on tundra. they should be kinda comfortable with living there

 

[FireBlaze]

I'd like the idea of being able to raze a city, then explore it and possibly get a research. Would theamaticly make sence too.... unless you burned down their library =D

 

[Giga-Gigan]

That would be pretty cool, one beaker for say every ten gold. It would encourage the Doviello to pillage and raze even more. Right now the only way they survive is by being a detriment to their neighbors, they might as well thrive doing it.

edit:
Oh do you mean exploring city ruins like you would dungeons? That might be cool, but as I recall once apon a time only the Doviello could receive weapon upgrades, that proved to be too powerful and rather anti thematic, the doveillo being able to explore city ruins would be potentially really powerful or hazardous depending on the luck of the find.

More musings:
Of the two "Barbarian" civilizations I felt that the Clan was quantity over quality and the Doviello was quality over quantity. Can anyone point out their quality? I always thought that Doviello units should start out with strong (or maybe heavy) to help represent the fact that the average Doviello is Conan-esq, but that they should have a universal penalty to military production to compensate. Then again once apon a time Beastmen started out with an additional strength point, but now don't. I think its been replaced with a city attack bonus.

If we were going for a more nomadic emphasis I think that the Doviello should have a spell that allowed them to raze their own city, and receive one settler and then a supplies unit for every two population that city had. It would require tweaking of course, to prevent them from settling a city pumping it really high, raze it, then resettling just to get free buildings.

 

[Jules.lt]

Well, you already get lots of gold from conquering+pillaging...
If you do it intensively enough you should be able to run 100% research, right? (untested)

 

[Giga-Gigan]

Thats true, but I think we should do something to help make it feel like they are getting something more out of looting. That what this threads about right? Making the Beast people flashier.

edit:

Come to think of it that won't necessarily keep them competitive with other civs research potential, Chardon is a barbarian and neither leader can build many research buildings anyways. So at 100% they still fall behind.

2nd Edit: Sorry but I can't stop coming up with ideas. In the event that we ever make it so a unit can only wield one equipment at a time, the War machine could be the exception to that rule, this would necessarily make the Doviello stronger but make every other civ weaker. Still makes sense thematically...

 

[Jules.lt]

It's just the library that's missing: that's only +25%. (Alchemy labs come after you've built some kind of solid research base anyway)
That can be more than made up for by being at 100% research.

I like the idea of letting doviellos steal better weapons from defeated units. That helps keep them in the field instead of going back to town to upgrade, and can allow them to skip some hard research if they find a neighbor with the appropriate weapons
It also gives some interesting mini-objectives for the player, like: "I'm going to get mithril for that high-level unit!"

 

[Giga-Gigan]

Really? I could have sworn that they don't get elder councils, they don't seem the type to respect their elders...

Anyways so what research buffs do they have available then? Ashen Veil, Empyrean temples, Catacomb Librarius, Great Sage academys...

 

[Jules.lt]

Same as everyone except for the library and alchemy lab, according to the manual (FfH 2m v1).
I really don't think that research is be the area where Doviello should be boosted in any way. The malus they get in it isn't that bad.
Keeping the focus on their units in the field until they win a conquest victory seems more appropriate to me.

Stealing weapons is one idea. Many people proposed that Charadon should get the Charismatic trait in addition to or instead of one of his current traits. It would make Mahala the one with the upgraded units and Charadon the one with the highly promoted ones. A nice distribution of roles.

Edit: oh, I just saw that Charadon has -10% research from the barbarian trait. But Mahala is clearly better, right now, so why would you have Charadon as your leader?

 

[JFSebastian]

Charadon is a much better rusher in my opinion. You can ignore building settlers and just take your nearest neighbor. Whether that gives him enough of a head start to compete with Mahala is something I don't know. However, its not to be ignored. This is especially true with the barbarian trait since your troops can rampage unmolested and your cities can be left almost completely undefended. The barbarians prove quite useful in early rushes too if you happen to both reach a city at the same time. Check out the doviello thread in the strategy sub forum and look over some of the comments and games folks posted.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305562

I played through the posted game and was rather impressed with a pillage economy. Unfortunately I didn't finish the game due to 'o' coming out. With 'o' I tried another game with Mahala and tried a similar strategy and it didn't work anywhere near as well. The lack of combat I made a huge difference. If there had been barbarians attacking her more, it might of made up for it, but there just weren't that many with the location she was in and the proximity of her nearest neighbors.

 

[Jules.lt]

I stand corrected. Charadon can be good too.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Charadon does need a boost in my opinion, charismatic could be nice.

stealing weapon upgrades also sounds most appropriate and fun.

what about giving them the Techconquest mechanic? basically, every time they conquer/raze an enemy city they get some research.

 

[Iceciro]

I'd honestly like it if Techconquest was added to Barbarian, to encourage all the barb leaders to raze more cities - it'd have to be tied to razing though, not capturing.

Charadon, I favor getting Charismatic if Techconquest isn't added.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

And I agree, Charadon needs charismatic. He certainly is by Dovillio standards, faster levels coupled with combat one would make for a stronger early game for Charadon, which is part of the premise of the Dovillio. That said I wouldn't mind if all barbarians got techconquest, but the Dovillio do have a history of having to give up unique features. If it was the barbarian trait that received the boost The Clan and Infernal would get it to.

Do they need it? I would have to think it through before I could say for certain.

 

[Err0l]

Well, at the moment, the Doviello are reasonably unique. Keeping the war machine fueled by conscripting workers is just awesome.

Agree with Charismatic for Chadaron, although Mahala would be a bit eclipsed, then.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

Conscripting workers is really cool, and gos to show that even if they're evil blood thirsty barbarians, at least their equal opportunity employers... I just wish that I could funnel my elvish captives into scout or hunter positions.
Hmm Charadon receiving a third trait, is technically one more then Mahala and that might be further exasperated by the techconquest (if its employed that is).

 

[Err0l]

You don't need to tie that mechanic to the barb trait. Just give it to Clan/Dov and you are set.

Or, we could simply give Mahala a third trait too. Although I'm rather clueless which one to choose.

 

[Dumanios]

I think that the Doviello are good enough already.

 

[Imuratep]

Doviello don't need anything but Charismatic for Charadon that's all. I like them more now than most other civilizations. All the suggestions made except perhaps stealing the weapon promotions would be nice gimmicks or broken (getting techs from razing/conquering).
The only thing that perhaps needs a further improvement is the World Spell, but if Charadon gets Charismatic it's enough.