the dovillio

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, Aggressive Raiders would make him just like Tasunke.

Charadon isn't really a Raider. Raiders attack quickly and then retreat with the loot, which is basically how Mahala operates, but Charadon prefers to fight to the death. He is an extremely popular leader who was a legend in his own times and is even more so since he returned from the dead. I'd say that CHarismatic fits him as well as any leader in the game.

 

[Yashkaf]

There's a new promotion called "bounty hunter" available, which gives you 1 or 2 gold for every battle won. Giving Charadon a trait to start his units with it would be a great addition. On one hand, it will help his terrible economy (-35% research, because he has no librararies+barb) and give him some much needed gold for the upgrades (no ingenuity). On the other, this is the promotion that most encourages aggresive play and risk taking on offense, both of which should be central to the way Charadon is played as he is lorewise the most fight-centered leader. Plus, this promotion doesn't make his army overpowered like march or commando would, it just helps him get some much needed cash.

I also like the idea of making them the anti-Kuriotates. A couple more ideas for a nation of nomadic settlements:

1. Hard population cap in every city outside the capital. I would even make it a low number like 5 pop max.

2. 50% less upkeep for distance and number of cities.

3. All cities are automatically connected to the trade network, don't require roads or rivers.

4. A spell that allows every size 5 city to drop back to pop 1 and immediately produce a settler.

This way, the Dovs have a ton of small cities which can produce high-tier military off the bat but will take a lot of time to contribute a lot to the economy. On the other hand, they don't cost much maintenance as well and can easily spread around without needing much infrastructure.

Another cool thing would be the way it would allow the Doviello to play defensively. If a big enemy stack is approaching, they just fold the city up into a settler and migrate/haul ass the heck out of there to settle somewhere else leaving the enemy only scorched ground. I think that suits them much better than keeping a lot of archers holed up behind high walls in big cities, Elohim/Ljos style.

Tell me what you think, I hope someone out there agrees it would be cool.

 

[WarKirby]

Well, Aggressive Raiders would make him just like Tasunke.

Charadon isn't really a Raider. Raiders attack quickly and then retreat with the loot, which is basically how Mahala operates, but Charadon prefers to fight to the death. He is an extremely popular leader who was a legend in his own times and is even more so since he returned from the dead. I'd say that CHarismatic fits him as well as any leader in the game.

But tasunke has horselord. Charadon has barbarian and winterborn.

As well as all the unique doviello units, buildings, et al. I don't think merely sharing two traits would make him "just like" anyone.

As far as I'm aware, the doviello are the only race that have a tank (kind of).

 

[WarKirby]

4. A spell that allows every size 5 city to drop back to pop 1 and immediately produce a settler.

I like this idea, but I think doing it should just remove the city completely, not reduce it to size 1.

Maybe he could get 2 settlers from a size 5 city.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I really like the idea of giving all units built by Charadon bounty hunter.

 

[loocas]

I don't think Charadon needs the barbarian trait? They may be the same from the victim's point of view, but why would the two leave each other alone? Charismatic is a good idea, it would be an appropriate buff, giving his units more promotions.

Here's another idea for them: You know how the berserker/urd entry talks about them using dead folks as weapons? After combat give them a +1 "Human Weapon" promotion that's removed again after combat.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

Just give them the ability to steal weapon promotions afret deafiting an enemy [like the mimic but only weapons promos and only if he has the apropriate tech] -->MagisterCultuum idea.

This would let them upgrade in the field and have weapon promos so needed for units to be real effective. I also like Yashkaf vision with the settlers and unkeep/maintenance.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I actually don't think it should require any techs to steal weapons. I'm not sure we should let a unit get a weapon higher than its weapon teir this way though. The main advantage here is that they can use weapons stolen from others without having to know how to make such weapons themselves, as the Doviello lost the ability to make such advanced tools long ago and were not quick to regain the technology. I think that in Lucian's day the Doviello only had one Iron Axe left, although they probably stol a lot more when they hit the war path with Auric.

 

[Err0l]

Perhaps the Dov should also get some toying around with supplies and/or free buildings, to further encourage city sprawl. Free palisade, for example. Also, less civic maintenance, perhaps even no maintenance on government... After all, they don't really organize something there. Or perhaps a doviello unique civic? Government, appears at hunting (or something, really), no upkeep, reduces city # and dist costs, gives free units (alot), and gives beakers for captured citys. But it also should give a hardcoded pop limit for citys. AI should heavily favor this. Also, civtrait: reduces civic costs and gives out bounty hunter promos... pretty much what has been said in the thread.

Additionally, Doviello could be given the ability to draft anytime, and with no/one unhappiness. Kind of suits them.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, their government is really anarchy. I just got to thinking that it would be an interesting ability to be able to descend into anarchy whenever you want. Anarchy has its upsides you know, like not maintenance costs or starvation.

 

[Yashkaf]

I'm glad I finally had an idea that people liked after a year on the forums

WarKirby:
The idea behind reducing a city to size 1 and only getting one settler is that the enemy should gain at least something from sacking the city (plunder) and you should lose something. A size 1 city gets wiped out when captured, so only the city ruins will tell that somebody lived there. This shouldn't be a mechanic to pop cheap settlers, but a way to manage defence in a unique way for an offensive minded civ.

About the weapons: Giving a +1 human weapon from combat to combat means it's pretty much permanent after the first combat. Most units lose exactly one combat in their lives. If it lasted for 1-2 turns, for example, it would more interesting and give the units an incentive to keep attacking like crazy without waiting to heal or regroup. That would fit the Dovs perfectly, you can even take an idea from arcade games and such and create the "adrenaline rush" or "bloodlust" 1,2,3 promotions. You get bloodlust 1 after the first combat, BL 2 after winning a combat with BL 1 active etc. Each one gives +20% or +1 strength, but all are removed after a single turn without combat. A Doviello berserker doesn't seem like a unit that will wait a couple of turns in a city to heal between battles. If there are enemies nearby, you just rush them. This would create really strong synergies with march/blitz, so their initial power could be reduced. It would also allow a tactic of using a berserker to kill two weak units to warm up before assaulting a stronger foe, and wouldn't allow the enemy to weaken him with some cannon fodder before a big battle.

I'm just feeling very Doviello creative today, I guess it would help if I ever actually played a complete with them..

 

[Yashkaf]

P.S.
Is it possible to change the thread heading to "The Doviello!" instead of "the dovillio". It would really help in getting more people with good ideas here.

 

[Senethro]

Free bounty hunter for level 3 unit? Free march for level 5/6? Wolves from Wild Hunt don't cost Maintenance/Supply? Units can steal Weapons promotions/Horses for +1 movement? Using a defeated human as a weapon promotion would be a hilarious feature of the Doviello Berserker.

There are lots of possibilities, but how do you tie them into one nice, comprehensible thematic package like the Calabim melee line, Sheim Arcane+planar summons, or the whole of the Balseraph units!

 

[Jet]

I started an open Doviello game.

 

[Lord Parkin]

About the weapons: Giving a +1 human weapon from combat to combat means it's pretty much permanent after the first combat. Most units lose exactly one combat in their lives. If it lasted for 1-2 turns, for example, it would more interesting and give the units an incentive to keep attacking like crazy without waiting to heal or regroup. That would fit the Dovs perfectly, you can even take an idea from arcade games and such and create the "adrenaline rush" or "bloodlust" 1,2,3 promotions. You get bloodlust 1 after the first combat, BL 2 after winning a combat with BL 1 active etc. Each one gives +20% or +1 strength, but all are removed after a single turn without combat. A Doviello berserker doesn't seem like a unit that will wait a couple of turns in a city to heal between battles. If there are enemies nearby, you just rush them. This would create really strong synergies with march/blitz, so their initial power could be reduced. It would also allow a tactic of using a berserker to kill two weak units to warm up before assaulting a stronger foe, and wouldn't allow the enemy to weaken him with some cannon fodder before a big battle.

This sounds like quite an interesting concept. Units that gained a large bonus from going into an attacking frenzy would be very interesting to play around with.

However, keep in mind the potential problems with such a concept. One thing that I can immediately see is that it would make the March promotion very, very powerful for the affected units.

 

[Mailbox]

Charadon needs charismatic. It strikes a nice balance between the two leaders, with Mahala having more advanced troops in larger numbers and Charadon having more powerful but less advanced troops in more elite numbers.

 

[Jules.lt]

However, keep in mind the potential problems with such a concept. One thing that I can immediately see is that it would make the March promotion very, very powerful for the affected units.

With +1 strength it would indeed be problematic, but something more limited like a cumulative +20% capped at +100% would be fun and possibly not too overpowered on a late game national unit. If you win that many combats you'll have 5 stars anyway, so the relative effect is reduced.

I like charismatic for Charadon too.
Allowing doviellos to steal weapons would be good too, especially as you probably don't want to bring your army back home to arm them.

 

[Lade]

I think Lucian should have a spell which locates Leptus Frigus on the map, then if he enters it, you have an option to form a perm alliance with the Illians (assuming they let you)

 

[Asthix]

I think that giving Charadon: 'Bounty hunter promotion to all combat units' is a fantastic idea.

 

[zup]

Charismatic is the word I like. Bounty hunter is meh.