The Emperor Masters' Challenge 3 (on Warlords)

[DrJambo]

Interesting indeed! I think this will definitely be a tougher challenge than the previous two Emperor challenges!

Anyway, I could be wrong, but it seems that selecting aggressive AI makes them start off disliking you more. I think Caesar should normally be cautious when you first meet him. Is that all the difference, though?

Yes, in my experience with Aggressive AI option on this is exactly what happens - the AI start off "annoyed". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this "annoyed" stance is selective just towards the human player? As to whether there are further changes to their propensity towards warring as a result of this option, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd hazard a guess this is the only difference. Don't worry though, I've managed to get Pleased and Friendly relations with AI even when Aggressive AI is enabled.

In terms of the dotmaps, position A looks good for a second city, but by taking this as the first option, you may find you lose position B to the Romans or Aztecs. Pushing for position B might be an idea if you want to avoid this. This would also potentially reserve position A at the same time for your 3rd city. However, you may find position B is little far from help should it go pear-shaped early doors...

 

[cabert]

about site A, if you move a bit more to the west you have pgis, wheat and fish = good for GP farm, good for production (or to be precise, move it 4W, 1N).

 

[asabahi]

Wait for your warrior to escort the settler. I vote to grab site B, those gems are going to help your economy and with happiness (once the city is a size 2, one citizen works the gems and the other the wheat). The 3rd city should be site A. I would worry about your neighbors because they will attack soon. I hope there are horses near by. You should beline for Horse back riding if you have horses because monty is going to attack with jags. And with stables and barracks you can give the Horse Arches shock in case Rome attacks also. The city in site B can pump out those units. After HBR, you have to get to CoL for the cheap courthouses, IMO.

 

[aelf]

about site A, if you move a bit more to the west you have pgis, wheat and fish = good for GP farm, good for production (or to be precise, move it 4W, 1N).

Alternatively, we could move it 2W and get the fish too. That seems good, only it would be further from our capital.

The Romans and Aztecs aren't that near to site B. And why would they attack when they are still so far away? Anyway, aren't axes better against jags and praets, assuming we have iron? I'd rather research IW first before deciding to get HBR. I'm not questioning your advice here. Just some questions I thought are pertinent to what you said

 

[asabahi]

true, IW is an important tech to have. Everything I said assumes that once AH is researched we have horses. Going for HBR is optional if we have iron somewhere near us. Monty is aggressive so he is going to attack with mallee units with 2 to 3 promotions, and a combat I axe vs a combat II or III axe is going to lose. I would at least build a number of chariots (I think you need wheel for that also). HBR would be nice because twice promoted HA (combat I and shock) takes away the aztec threat.

 

[asabahi]

In my experience the Aztecs and the Romans, specialy the aztecs, build cities very quickly. So site B might not be there when you are ready to build your 3rd city.

 

[lilnev]

'A' looks solid, as does 1W of 'A'. With two food resources (and no other good candidates that I see), a city there might transition into the GP farm once Literature comes along. Which brings up the next point: using a GE to build the ToA means you get to choose where to put it. The trade bonus would clearly serve the capitol best (and since that's the theme of the game, maybe it has to be done). But 5 GPP/turn would look rather nice in a GP farm, too.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Winston Hughes]

Man that's a tough starting position, especially with Monty and Jules on your doorstep.

Both A and B have potential drawbacks with regards to your likely enemies. It'll be quicker to get troops to A from the capital, but I doubt that you'll be producing many units in Washington. Site B has the advantage of cutting off more of your peninsula (and those gems would be very useful), but might provoke the AI into an earlier attack, whilst reducing the time you have to make preparations to fend off an approaching army.

Personally, I reckon that tough circumstances demand bold actions, so I'd say go for B and keep your fingers crossed that Monty and Jules take more offence to each other than they do to you. Failing that, prepare for a war to the death sooner rather than later.

ps. What's the earliest AI attack you've suffered? I've never played on aggressive AI, but the earliest I've seen came shortly after I settled my third city (damned Germans almost wiped me out before I'd even got into the game).

 

[lilnev]

I don't think the AI will move on the gems right away. Caesar will put his next city either south for dye or west for marble/wheat.
The problem with using all three food resources (3W1N of A) is that this continent is food-light. I think the fish is needed to support a west coast city (NNE of fish). With fish, that's a reasonable city. Without, it's dead land.
Also, how to use the other fish (south of B)? ENE could support a lot of cottages, but little production. Or one of the desert hills to the SW would make a modest production city (one fish supports three plains-hill mines).

peace,
lilnev

"Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

 

[Tyrant Roger]

This is a tough start against unfriendly AI's. I think you should now adjust your strategy to anticipate early war against one or both of the AI's. For me that means Ironworking ASAP and if no iron then HBR.

I don't think city B will be available if you build city A first. So, reluctantly, I think you should build at B first. B should become your production city and your capital should be a commerce/science city.

With luck the Great Wall will cause the barbs to bother the two AI's long enough for you to mount a defense of city B.

In the long run you want that marble and the way to get it will likely be capturing the AI city near it. Another reason to go on a war footing ASAP.

I fear your trading opportunities with these two AI's will be limited due to war. Trade as a major source of income may have to wait for Astronomy.

 

[illram]

This post is brief b/c I'm at work and my boss won't like me being here on his dime, but:

site A looks good for a second city, b/c it has a lot of production and some food, plus some forests if I remember correctly, and its coastal so we can build the GL there if need be. Our capital will have almost no production so we need one city that can get some hammers. It's also a defensible position as it's close to our capital.

As for our nasty neighbours, I believe iron working should become our next priority as we're going to need to take care of some of these guys, or at least build some strong units so we're ready for the inevitable war declaration. At the very least we could use some horses or archers so our power meter isnt low. (Low power makes them more apt to declare war.)

edit: tyrant has a point, building on B cuts off the peninsula and lets us still build on A later as well. I havent looked at the pic of it recently though, is there enough food that is immediately available in that spot?

 

[Lucky Charms]

Hmm.... Bad start, but you have a choice:

If you go with A, you found a city faster, and will have plenty of production, I can see it down the road as either a military powerhouse, imagine that place with the Heroic Epic, West Point, Barracks, and military instructors, or pumping out wonders in rapid fashion.
With this site, you should certainly get the wonders you want.

If you go to site B, you gain Gems and Wheat, great for commerce, and will seal off your peninsula. Is it worth the trade off of less hammers and founding later? I think it might, becasue if you don't settle it quickly, it might get taken by the AI, and you'll get boxed in. Also, you're Organised, so maintanance should not be too bad.
However, the choice is up to you, if you go B, be sure to garrison it with plenty of units as soon as possible.
You know what they say, "Fortune favours the bold."

 

[tuckerthecat]

Yikes, thats a rough, rough start. Your capital is pretty poor & you are boxed in with 2 super aggressive warmongers. The land closest to Washington stinks too, no rivers plus tundra and desert. The trade route economy isnt going to go so hot when you are stuck on a continent with 2 aggressive AI's.

Whats even worse is (if I remember correctly) since agressive AI is on both Monty & Julius start out annoyed so they wont even open borders till you give them tribute. Monty is the only one with a shot of founding a religion, it would be really bad if it spread to Julius & not you.

Both Monty & JC are notorious in demanding tribute. I'd give in to Monty but not JC & bribe Monty to attack JC as soon as possible. I used to cringe when Monty demanded tribute ( he always seems to demand the one tech I want to not trade at all for awhile ) but I soon realized that Monty is totally hopeless late game so its better to give him what he wants & keep him happy than fight him early when he is dangerous.

If you manage to get Monty to war with JC ( & if you decide to war with JC ) you want to keep him weak but not totally destroy him. With only 2 other civs on the continent if one is totally destroyed the other will no longer trade techs with you till they make contact with other civs.

 

[NaZdReG]

Aelf,

warlords game feedback.. if you have no copper you will almost always have either iron or horses.. i'm leaning towards iron as its been my experience with previous games... probably in the fat cross to be sure.

I would settle the further city first.. you'll pay in upkeep but guarantee 2 city spots.. yeah the one near the fish will be a small somewhat weaker city but will benefit with its trade routes so might as well. after city B then settle city A.

I would suggest this early that since you're going for trade route volume.. more cities is more trade routes.. X100% is more money overall. so that city marked with a ? will end up being 1/2way decent anyway. you might want to cram some coastal cities along the western edge as long as the overlap with sites A and B are minimal.

monty usually picks up an early religion.. see how quickly you can get it to your cities and convert. will probably help you keep him at bay. the trouble will proabably come from rome so get ready to deal with praets

going to be tough looking forward to seeing how you deal with current events.

NaZ

 

[asabahi]

With monty there is no guarntees that he will not attack you even if you are the same religon. If you want to keep him at bay than give into tributes and his demands. But he will attack even if you are giving into demands, at least the probabilty exists. I would research the military techs and get ready to go on the offensive. It has been recommended to somehow get the Aztecs to attack Rome. What if monty attacks Rome and wins the war? He is even more powerfull and than he will eye your land. Cripple the 2 AI's should be the first on the list of things to do.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

i agree with cabert move it to get all three food reasources gp farm anyone. but maybe not the best production city so that could be you third city

 

[malekithe]

I'd settle A 1W of the indicated spot. You're not going to be able to pop the borders for a while, so getting both those food resources in your initial borders will be huge for getting the city off the ground quickly. That is, of course, assuming you can get a worker over there to help it along.

It'll be interesting to see where horses and iron pop up. It could definitely have an impact on your 3rd city's placement.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

aelf, the choice boils down to if you are going to play for later war or earlier war. Settling the far spot, gives you another city. Settling the near spot, puts the pressure on to go knock down an AI. One is not necessicarily better, just depends on what you're looking to accomplish.

Having said that, with your goals in mind, go for the gems.

@ NaZ - thanks for the explanation of 3 cities

 

[aelf]

After some thinking, I've decided that our settings and situation may seriously damage efforts to achieve our aims. If I had known that agressive AI means they start off literally annoyed at us, I wouldn't have selected it as that's quite daft when you are hoping to get much from open borders. As one you mentioned, none of our two neighbours (they are not the nicest around) would open borders until we've given them something, and they can't demand anything until we've researched Alphabet or Currency. By then, it might be too late. My bad for not listening to my own gut feeling

If Monty converts Caesar to his side, we might as well quit. I don't like to give up, but this is going to be like the first Emperor Challenge, except that we are not Financial and have a much worse start and bad lands. Doesn't sound like it's going to be fun at all, in that case.

It's not often that I get demoralised so early in a game. We should consider an extraordinary option - start another game with the same settings but agressive AI off. If we want to accomplish the stated goals, this may be necessary.

 

[NaZdReG]

Aelf,

definately go for iron working next just incase you have some in the fat cross of the capitol. if you're able to spawn axes and/or swords (think defensively) that will help a lot. I would definately still go for site B just to cut off the peninsula.. otherwise you'll face an early war with monty just to get free of there.

if he gets a religion hopefully it rubs off on you and you can convert which would help keep him off your back for just a little while.

NaZ