aelf
Ashen One
dutchfire said:And get a diplomatic victory out of nowwhere
Nope. That has been safey disabled
Anyway, I'm playing the next round now. Will probably post the update tomorrow night.
The Emperor Masters' Challenge 3 (on Warlords)
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
Nope. That has been safey disabled
Anyway, I'm playing the next round now. Will probably post the update tomorrow night.
aelf said:I'm not ignoring the input given to me. I come to any decision only after weighing all that has been said. But ultimately, I have to do what is best for the game. As much as I dislike going my own way, on rare occassions, I may feel that it's in the interest of the game not to follow the consensus on a certain thing. I'm sorry. Please understand
Democracy is overrated. Long live the King!
aelf
Ashen One
Don't worry. It's just a temporary suspension of the constitution that will be lifted 
aelf
Ashen One
Round 2: 2400BC - 1560BC
The settlement in Washington grew, and soon the Americans had a wheat farm and were chopping forests for timber and more land. But the explorer groups found other tribes settled in distant lands. First, there were the Mexicans, who seemed to hate Americans because of past border disputes. Then there were the Italians, who often referred to their tribe as the mafia. There was only one American family who knew the word from a story passed down by their ancestors about a legendary group of bandits. This rumour did not serve to create a feeling of trust toward the Italians either.
What made things worse was the fact that these tribes seemed to have emerged earlier than the Americans and had established a few settlements. Clearly, they presented a great threat to the tribe. There was talk of building a great wall to protect American lands from incursion, since there were also tribeless marauders who had emerged from the underground. Admittedly, if the Italians and the Mexicans tried, they would be able to enter American lands even with the wall there. But with an atmosphere of paranoia pervading the tribe, the idea was a popular one.
It seems that the Emperor Challenge in an another low point. I decided to settle 1W of site A against the vote of the majority. While this might be an unpopular decision, I had to make it because I think it's necessary.
The suspension of democracy is not a good thing. Certainly, it's not good for the atmosphere of discussion in this thread. But I hope that you guys will bear with me and try to understand the imperative need to make sure that the game can go on as far as possible. Rest assured that no matter what, I will listen to your opinions and weigh them before making any decision.
So the settler headed for the site. Since time is of the essence, I took a bit of risk in letting it go a few steps ahead of the escorting warrior. There was no guarantee the warrior could survive a barb archer's attack anyway. By moving from hill the hill, there was less risk of the settler encountering a barb since it would be able to see one coming from a distance:
In this situation, we could move it NW and steer clear of the barb archer. Of course, I had to pray that it did not run into another barb, but I figured the risk of another one in the vicinity was quite low at the moment.
Washington soon grew:
I allocated the new citizen to the plains forest. As you can see, without a warrior guarding it, the city would become unhappy at the next size. We had to slow growth a little. And a warrior would need be timed in between chops and before the city grew again.
After researching AH, we researched the Wheel to give our worker something to do after he was done with chopping. Also, connecting our new city with the capital was important for security and would need to be done asap.
The little risk we took with the settler paid off, and New York was safely built:
Its first build was a warrior. And it would sacrifice growth in the meantime to build it since two barb archers had been spotted and one was about to attack our 'escorting warrior'.
Meanwhile, this the best glimpse of Rome and its environs that we could get:
The Roman start doesn't look too good either. Antium, though, has great potential.
Anyway, our 'escorting warrior' survived the barb archer's attack defending on a forested hill, so the need for another warrior in New York was not so great now. I changed the tile worked in the city to give opportunity for growth:
The time came for Washington to build a warrior as well so that it could grow further:
Anyway, the Venerable Bede decided that the other continent was better than ours at expanding:
Maybe with aggressive AI on, that meant the other continent would break out into conflict soon
After New York completed its warrior, I set it to grow asap:
The barracks build was due to a lack of alternative at the moment. We would need one eventually anyway.
Washington completed its warrior too:
Growth at full steam in anticipation of whipping for the Great Wall after the next chop.
After the Wheel, I had to think of what to research next. I was considering getting Archery before IW for security reasons, but having to research Hunting first put me off that. We had no use for Hunting. In the end, I settled for Mysticism as Washington could build a settler for site B after the Great Wall and we would want a monument in that city to expand its borders quickly. That should be in time for us to build a mine on the gems if we research IW next.
[to be continued in the next post...]
The settlement in Washington grew, and soon the Americans had a wheat farm and were chopping forests for timber and more land. But the explorer groups found other tribes settled in distant lands. First, there were the Mexicans, who seemed to hate Americans because of past border disputes. Then there were the Italians, who often referred to their tribe as the mafia. There was only one American family who knew the word from a story passed down by their ancestors about a legendary group of bandits. This rumour did not serve to create a feeling of trust toward the Italians either.
What made things worse was the fact that these tribes seemed to have emerged earlier than the Americans and had established a few settlements. Clearly, they presented a great threat to the tribe. There was talk of building a great wall to protect American lands from incursion, since there were also tribeless marauders who had emerged from the underground. Admittedly, if the Italians and the Mexicans tried, they would be able to enter American lands even with the wall there. But with an atmosphere of paranoia pervading the tribe, the idea was a popular one.
It seems that the Emperor Challenge in an another low point. I decided to settle 1W of site A against the vote of the majority. While this might be an unpopular decision, I had to make it because I think it's necessary.
aelf said:
The suspension of democracy is not a good thing. Certainly, it's not good for the atmosphere of discussion in this thread. But I hope that you guys will bear with me and try to understand the imperative need to make sure that the game can go on as far as possible. Rest assured that no matter what, I will listen to your opinions and weigh them before making any decision.
So the settler headed for the site. Since time is of the essence, I took a bit of risk in letting it go a few steps ahead of the escorting warrior. There was no guarantee the warrior could survive a barb archer's attack anyway. By moving from hill the hill, there was less risk of the settler encountering a barb since it would be able to see one coming from a distance:
In this situation, we could move it NW and steer clear of the barb archer. Of course, I had to pray that it did not run into another barb, but I figured the risk of another one in the vicinity was quite low at the moment.
Washington soon grew:
I allocated the new citizen to the plains forest. As you can see, without a warrior guarding it, the city would become unhappy at the next size. We had to slow growth a little. And a warrior would need be timed in between chops and before the city grew again.
After researching AH, we researched the Wheel to give our worker something to do after he was done with chopping. Also, connecting our new city with the capital was important for security and would need to be done asap.
The little risk we took with the settler paid off, and New York was safely built:
Its first build was a warrior. And it would sacrifice growth in the meantime to build it since two barb archers had been spotted and one was about to attack our 'escorting warrior'.
Meanwhile, this the best glimpse of Rome and its environs that we could get:
The Roman start doesn't look too good either. Antium, though, has great potential.
Anyway, our 'escorting warrior' survived the barb archer's attack defending on a forested hill, so the need for another warrior in New York was not so great now. I changed the tile worked in the city to give opportunity for growth:
The time came for Washington to build a warrior as well so that it could grow further:
Anyway, the Venerable Bede decided that the other continent was better than ours at expanding:
Maybe with aggressive AI on, that meant the other continent would break out into conflict soon
After New York completed its warrior, I set it to grow asap:
The barracks build was due to a lack of alternative at the moment. We would need one eventually anyway.
Washington completed its warrior too:
Growth at full steam in anticipation of whipping for the Great Wall after the next chop.
After the Wheel, I had to think of what to research next. I was considering getting Archery before IW for security reasons, but having to research Hunting first put me off that. We had no use for Hunting. In the end, I settled for Mysticism as Washington could build a settler for site B after the Great Wall and we would want a monument in that city to expand its borders quickly. That should be in time for us to build a mine on the gems if we research IW next.
[to be continued in the next post...]
aelf
Ashen One
[continued from previous post]
Anyway, this is the best view we got of the Aztec lands:
Didn't look great either, but they have stone.
Indeed, after another chop at Washington we could whip rush the Great Wall. So I made the appropriate civic change:
And here goes:
On the next turn...
The first time I build this wonder in Warlords. Maybe I should do it more often, if only for the GE.
With the wonder completed and one of our exploring warriors safely back, we should be able to settle site B. I let Washington grow back to size 3 on this turn before starting on the settler.
New York, meanwhile, grew to size 2:
It started on a worker, who could start improving the land around it a bit before being sent to Site B. When the worker from Washington reaches New York, he could take over the job there.
Washington started on the settler on the next turn:
I stopped playing after Mysticism was researched.
Now, the question is what should we research next. Two of the warriors in New York can fog bust the way to Site B for the settler, and defend the new city in case Monty decides to attack with a few wandering archers. But I think IW should be a priority, since Caesar has begun talking about his axemen. It would also allow us to mine the gems, which would be a great boost to our economy and give us an extra happy face.
The good news is Caesar and Monty have both become cautious due to years of peace, so we should be able to get open borders with them in the future if nothing goes wrong. However, this forces us to consider carefully which tech to research after IW. Sailing might be needed if we want to build the Great Lighthouse. We probably can't afford to wait after the 22 turns spent researching IW. After that, it will probably be time to research Polytheism so that we can use the GE to get the ToA in Washington. This means Writing might not be researched any time soon. If Caesar researches it himself in the near future, we can get open borders with him. If he doesn't, this little bit of improvement in relations might not come till much later, with potential risks involved in the meantime.
Anyway, I made a rather complicated dot map of where we can settle some cities:
Site A has been settled and, presumably, B would be soon. Green C claims the crabs, and Red C is an alternative location for it. The brown question mark would claim the fish and horses, and we can settle there in the future if nobody has claimed it. The red question mark is an alternative location for it. Should we stick to the 3-city rule to keep maintenance down, though? If we do, we won't be settling anywhere after site B for a long time.
Here's a map of the southern part of the continent, including the Aztec region:
A map of its nothern part:
It's not a big continent, so domination might be difficult. But, then again, we are playing with high sea level so the other continent might not be very large either.
Any thoughts on anything?
Anyway, this is the best view we got of the Aztec lands:
Didn't look great either, but they have stone.
Indeed, after another chop at Washington we could whip rush the Great Wall. So I made the appropriate civic change:
And here goes:
On the next turn...
The first time I build this wonder in Warlords. Maybe I should do it more often, if only for the GE.
With the wonder completed and one of our exploring warriors safely back, we should be able to settle site B. I let Washington grow back to size 3 on this turn before starting on the settler.
New York, meanwhile, grew to size 2:
It started on a worker, who could start improving the land around it a bit before being sent to Site B. When the worker from Washington reaches New York, he could take over the job there.
Washington started on the settler on the next turn:
I stopped playing after Mysticism was researched.
Now, the question is what should we research next. Two of the warriors in New York can fog bust the way to Site B for the settler, and defend the new city in case Monty decides to attack with a few wandering archers. But I think IW should be a priority, since Caesar has begun talking about his axemen. It would also allow us to mine the gems, which would be a great boost to our economy and give us an extra happy face.
The good news is Caesar and Monty have both become cautious due to years of peace, so we should be able to get open borders with them in the future if nothing goes wrong. However, this forces us to consider carefully which tech to research after IW. Sailing might be needed if we want to build the Great Lighthouse. We probably can't afford to wait after the 22 turns spent researching IW. After that, it will probably be time to research Polytheism so that we can use the GE to get the ToA in Washington. This means Writing might not be researched any time soon. If Caesar researches it himself in the near future, we can get open borders with him. If he doesn't, this little bit of improvement in relations might not come till much later, with potential risks involved in the meantime.
Anyway, I made a rather complicated dot map of where we can settle some cities:
Site A has been settled and, presumably, B would be soon. Green C claims the crabs, and Red C is an alternative location for it. The brown question mark would claim the fish and horses, and we can settle there in the future if nobody has claimed it. The red question mark is an alternative location for it. Should we stick to the 3-city rule to keep maintenance down, though? If we do, we won't be settling anywhere after site B for a long time.
Here's a map of the southern part of the continent, including the Aztec region:
A map of its nothern part:
It's not a big continent, so domination might be difficult. But, then again, we are playing with high sea level so the other continent might not be very large either.
Any thoughts on anything?
pigswill
fly (one day)
Is it worth thinking about city#3 as horse/gem city; maybe fourth city to southeast of it (wheat/fish). Chariots could be useful.
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
aelf said:
I could tell, because you were thinking about researching Archery, which is a mistake I made the first time I built The Great Wall. The whole point of The Great Wall is that barbarians can't even enter your territory, let alone attack you. What do you need archers for?
OK, yeah, Montezuma and Caesar are always a worry, but axemen, spearmen, and chariots will do a fine job against them. A better job really. You want to get Archery eventually, but it's definitely not a #1 top priority at this point.
aelf
Ashen One
Jet said:
That's a good idea. However, not grabbing the gems now probably means we won't get it (our only pre-Calendar happiness resource and high commerce tile) until we fight somebody for it.
Dr Elmer Jiggle said:
Yes, I was slightly worried about them, not about the barbs. I would agree anytime that axemen and spearmen are better than archers, but what bothered me was the 20+ turns needed to research IW. The thing that put me off researching Archery in the end is the need to research Hunting first. Altogether, that would take about 15 turns. We might as well get IW.
Anyway, so what should we grab first, horses or gems?
MartinhoMukanga
Slave Master
i think research iron working first. about next city i would say site B then maybe orange mark
pigswill
fly (one day)
If you went for gems/wheat first it would be more difficult for AI to grab horse/fish; but then you have to decide if you're going for three or four cities. Horse or gems would be a tough call.
I'd go with the horses. If we are totally screwed and don't even get iron, at the very least we could get horse archers. I dont see any horses for monty either, that would be a big negative for him and an advantage for us. Also, I can't really tell from the second dot map, but how long culturally would it take for the horse city to swallow the gems?
I'm with you on the A settlement by the way, good call. I just started doing the great wall/GE move a couple of games ago, I find it makes getting wonders in the early game much easier on the high difficulty levels.
I'm with you on the A settlement by the way, good call. I just started doing the great wall/GE move a couple of games ago, I find it makes getting wonders in the early game much easier on the high difficulty levels.
Definitely settle B next, then orange question mark. I don't think the AI will reach the horses any time soon, so there's no rush. At least if iron is discovered. I like red C better than green C, but that's down the road a ways. Normally I don't like to research IW, but in this case it's probably necessary. I'd like to see Pottery before too long, though. The capital has a lot of weak tiles; start cottaging as soon as possible.
peace,
lilnev
peace,
lilnev
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Interesting game so far, aelf. Don't despair!
Maybe it's just the warmonger in me, but based upon the start, your settings, and your neighbours, I'd get geared up for a long, bloody fighting match if I were you.
The Great Wall seems like a good idea for the GE and the freedom from those nasty barbs. If you're after the Temple of Artemis, all well and good, but use the GE for that. Concentrate on your military for now.
Iron should be your next tech, definitely. Without copper, you're going to need it. Badly.
Get 2-3 more cities up pronto, as you've plotted them. Grab the horses, the gems, and the crabs. Collectively they'll make a decent base for building barracks and units. And with luck, Iron will appear in one of their fat crosses. Use the whip liberally, since your cities have low health and happiness limits and will for some time.
Contrary to what several other people have said, I would try to keep Monty happy for now. Another poster astutely pointed out that this is when he's dangerous--early in the game. As frightening as the Praetorians are, the AI does not know how to use them properly. Monty, on the other hand, just throws everything he's got at you--which is nuts, but very effective if all you have are a few club-wielding warriors.
Try to hook up a trade route to Monty (you may need Sailing) and hope for his religion to spread to you (he's bound to found one sooner or later). Convert if it does. Give him any tribute he asks for. Then wait for him to attack Caesar and ask you to join in--or YOU go and attack Julie and get Monty to join you. Basically, hold off Monty until you have an advantage on him, which knowing Monty, will not take too long.
You can still have your trade route game, but later on, when you own your continent and discover Astronomy. For now, I'd focus on preparing for the fight that is inevitably coming your way. Let Dr. EJ's words of wisdom in my sig be your guide.
Maybe it's just the warmonger in me, but based upon the start, your settings, and your neighbours, I'd get geared up for a long, bloody fighting match if I were you.
The Great Wall seems like a good idea for the GE and the freedom from those nasty barbs. If you're after the Temple of Artemis, all well and good, but use the GE for that. Concentrate on your military for now.
Iron should be your next tech, definitely. Without copper, you're going to need it. Badly.
Get 2-3 more cities up pronto, as you've plotted them. Grab the horses, the gems, and the crabs. Collectively they'll make a decent base for building barracks and units. And with luck, Iron will appear in one of their fat crosses. Use the whip liberally, since your cities have low health and happiness limits and will for some time.
Contrary to what several other people have said, I would try to keep Monty happy for now. Another poster astutely pointed out that this is when he's dangerous--early in the game. As frightening as the Praetorians are, the AI does not know how to use them properly. Monty, on the other hand, just throws everything he's got at you--which is nuts, but very effective if all you have are a few club-wielding warriors.
Try to hook up a trade route to Monty (you may need Sailing) and hope for his religion to spread to you (he's bound to found one sooner or later). Convert if it does. Give him any tribute he asks for. Then wait for him to attack Caesar and ask you to join in--or YOU go and attack Julie and get Monty to join you. Basically, hold off Monty until you have an advantage on him, which knowing Monty, will not take too long.
You can still have your trade route game, but later on, when you own your continent and discover Astronomy. For now, I'd focus on preparing for the fight that is inevitably coming your way. Let Dr. EJ's words of wisdom in my sig be your guide.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
sorry to be crude about this, but sisiutil is correct, we're going to get kicked where it hurts.
for the present, the descision tree is down to iron v. horses. since this is warlords, iron should be there.
roll the dice and go for iron, you mad dictator.
this doesn't appear to be dire at all, just the usual catch up...
for the present, the descision tree is down to iron v. horses. since this is warlords, iron should be there.
roll the dice and go for iron, you mad dictator.
this doesn't appear to be dire at all, just the usual catch up...
aelf
Ashen One
Thanks for the conflicting advice, guys 
Well, this is my take on the issue: One on hand, there's the question of security. If we decide in favour of this, we would grab the horses next. On the other, there's the question of benefit, which would certainly be more if we grab the gems, albeit at a risk that there's no iron within our borders.
In the end, I think what can decide the question is the issue of finances. Both sites are quite far from the capital at this stage of the game. Which site will cost us less to settle? The gem city can pay for itself after a while. The horse city can't. This, and some kind of faith that there must be iron in our resource-poor starting location (like Admiral Kutzov's), makes me inclined towards settling site B now. Suppose we find iron. We can immediately whip a few axes out for defense. Suppose we don't find iron, we can quickly whip a settler out and run him to the horse and hope it's not too late.
It's not easy, but we have to make the decision.
Well, this is my take on the issue: One on hand, there's the question of security. If we decide in favour of this, we would grab the horses next. On the other, there's the question of benefit, which would certainly be more if we grab the gems, albeit at a risk that there's no iron within our borders.
In the end, I think what can decide the question is the issue of finances. Both sites are quite far from the capital at this stage of the game. Which site will cost us less to settle? The gem city can pay for itself after a while. The horse city can't. This, and some kind of faith that there must be iron in our resource-poor starting location (like Admiral Kutzov's), makes me inclined towards settling site B now. Suppose we find iron. We can immediately whip a few axes out for defense. Suppose we don't find iron, we can quickly whip a settler out and run him to the horse and hope it's not too late.
It's not easy, but we have to make the decision.
aelf
Ashen One
On matters of foreign policy, I'm inclined to wait and see who becomes our immediate neighbour. But my instinct is not to trust Monty, especially on aggressive AI setting. I think by late medieval, Monty would've grown dangerous with large stacks of macemen or war elephants or both.
Both plots are good, and you have a point about the gems paying for themselves. There is wheat there so that's a plus (the horse plot would need a fishing boat to get any decent food surplus). Go with the gems. Be prepared for the AI to plant a city in a really annoying spot sometime soon, however. That's about all the AI is good at.
MartinhoMukanga
Slave Master
personally i think monty is the trickiest. He always attacks me even if i am at good relations with im so ally with the romans
if monty doesn't have horses then its a big advantage for you to ataack him
if monty doesn't have horses then its a big advantage for you to ataack him
