The Entire Thought Experiment

[astre]

seems like we are fine
bejing was waw ! parthenon, colossus, pyramid and mauselum! all we could ever wanted

ok with finish chinese on main land, to want the end of the war to launch GA, to build hamer temples.
For religion, i would go to FR myself but budism (and OR) for diplomatic reason seems tempting.

however, our economy is not great at this time. We may want to build wealth in some places and to rush some zihhura.

if we can bribe someone on chinese to fulfill side quest while chinese is weak, we should try (boudica after conversion?)

After the end of war, with colossus, we should develop fishing cities (east of bejing for exemple) and capture last barbarian city.

 

[lymond]

AP temples and monasteries provide the hammer benefits even if we would be in free religion...

v...was this in response to something someone said, a general note for the team, or a question?

 

[vranasm]

v...was this in response to something someone said, a general note for the team, or a question?

just a general remark... in a sense I wanted to say that we should spread the AP religion and build at least temples since I am sure they will pay for themself.

not sure on the monasteries since that is a lot of question of scimeth, which we will eventually get, but not sure if before factories or after...

I guess the decision about corps x state property will play big role in this...

 

[Cam_H]

As I'm up after Sengir, I must confess that it suits me personally that this immediate turnset is taking a bit of time to get to (due to having my hands full with RL stuff).

Nonetheless, Sengir, please sing out where you're at ... are you OK to play?

 

[pigswill]

Finishing off mainland China then peace seems obvious. I'm not sure we'll need to build any more units at the moment however. We'll need workers and settlers for the north east, maybe some infra to let cities grow a bit but we shouldn't delay settlement too long as the world is filling up.

Lib within one turn then looking at options also seems fairly standard and may be a good point to finish the next set.

Religion seems trickier, if we adopt any religion we'll annoy more people than we please. If we can expand and grow enough to become AP resident then adopting the religion is worth considering so building monasteries and missionaries might be worth doing to leave that option available.

 

[vranasm]

guys wanted to say that I won't be available to play from 10.8. (maybe even 8.8.) up to 17.8., so I will need eventually skip

 

[Sengir]

I'm playing tonight (starting in 5 minutes).

 

[Sengir]

I must say I'm pretty rusty . I've played a couple of turns, wiped China of our continent and got Edu done.

Now I can make a peacedeal with China, and I have to chose between the city of Shandong (+WM+70g) and (I think) Drama + Compass + WM + 70g. Not sure which one to pick (offshore island would be good for traderoutes I suppose). I don't think we can get both techs+city, but maybe city + tech is possible... not sure, maybe someone can find out (save is attached). Or a different city?

Besides that Boudica is willing to trade horses, she's asking a lot for it though, so I don't think we should do it.


Now that the war with China is done, I'll focus on infra and move our troops to the SB-border in the south. Also we got a GG. Do we want another healer or do we want to settle him in our HE-city?

I'll finish my set tomorrow.

 

[lymond]

Good job. I'd rather take the techs and gold than a city I can't see. It's probably a crap 1 pop city on a tundra island and may be blocked from trade routes anyway.

I think we should be building Libraries/Unis in core cities. Jud Monastery in Kish does not seem a priority. We whip one out in Beijing or one of the newly capture cities that need the culture badly anyway. Kish should have a Library.

Don't forget resource trades.

Watch your citizens. Micro cities. Grow where growth is best. Work hammers where that is best. Lighthouse in that far east city should have been 2 popped whipped, but better to work one mine now to get it done in two turns. Other cities can work more food to grow now.

I'd run some binary for a few turns for now. Current slider position is doing nothing for us.

Oh....I guess we can save the GG for our super mounted Blitzer.


I think if we vote yes in the next AP vote we may get our hammers back. I forgot the hammer loss is empire wide. It's the happiness hit that is not empire wide - just in those cities you own at the time of defiance.

 

[Cam_H]

I also lean toward tech's in preference to 'mystery city'.

Conversely, I like the Jewish Monastery in Kish as the Missionary pump. I'm not sure I'm grasping the problem.

I'm fine with Wine <> Silk as suggested, and 'yes', watch Washington for a Dye <> opportunity.

Agree also on 'banking' the Great General for either of the Bucking Bronco or Shock Jockey variants.

Good luck!

 

[lymond]

Conversely, I like the Jewish Monastery in Kish as the Missionary pump. I'm not sure I'm grasping the problem.

The issue is that we need Libraries in core cities. This is a space game. Monastery would be of much better use in culture pressed cities like Beijing that we don't mind whipping aggressively right now.

 

[Sengir]

Good job. I'd rather take the techs and gold than a city I can't see. It's probably a crap 1 pop city on a tundra island and may be blocked from trade routes anyway.

Ok, I'll grab the techs.

I think we should be building Libraries/Unis in core cities. Jud Monastery in Kish does not seem a priority. We whip one out in Beijing or one of the newly capture cities that need the culture badly anyway. Kish should have a Library.

You're right, even if Kish should get a Monastery, it's still better to get the lib+uni done first, as it won't be building miss's until those buildings are done.

Watch your citizens. Micro cities. Grow where growth is best. Work hammers where that is best. Lighthouse in that far east city should have been 2 popped whipped, but better to work one mine now to get it done in two turns. Other cities can work more food to grow now.

LH-city only grew last turn, no whip available earlier. I will switch to more food though

I'd run some binary for a few turns for now. Current slider position is doing nothing for us.

Oh....I guess we can save the GG for our super mounted Blitzer.


I think if we vote yes in the next AP vote we may get our hammers back. I forgot the hammer loss is empire wide. It's the happiness hit that is not empire wide - just in those cities you own at the time of defiance.

Ok, thanks for the pointers.

 

[Sengir]

I played some more turns, got peace + OB with the Chinese, got some resource trades. A silk near Uruk has been pillaged by a spy, there's a worker on route.

There are also some units moving north for the barb town (2 trebs, 2 ele's and 2 maces). The rest of our units are gathering in Ur and Eridu.

 

[astre]

seems nice

Propositions for next set :
harapan should not build a lighthouse ight now. more likely a zigura or a worker.
we can get optic by trade, maybe a good idea to check possibilities.
for next set, i propose a massive worker/zigura build program
do we launch a GA to change civic to rep?
do we convert and go OB?
there is a settler moving, where to settle? I'd like 1SW of its current position.
founding desert island near bejing should be a priority (sea food + trade roads) that require a galley in addition to the settler.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks Sengir for the turnset.

Thanks astre for the suggestions . I'm in agreement with the general intent, but not so sure on the priority of that Clam island - but I'm 'all ears' if others also think that it's a priority.

Until we get our Universities and Libraries up, and while Lincoln doesn't have Education, I'd to continue to 'run binary' 0% on Liberalism.

I'd like to take Bantu once and for all. I assume that's where the units are intended (rather than in preparation for conflict with Sitting Bull)(?). It'll take more than 10 turns for them to get there.

'Yes' - I'd go south-west for Gold-Rice city with the Settler also.

Personally I'd hold off the Golden Age for now as we've not set up a Great Person Farm and many cities are still fairly small population-wise, but again, 'all ears' if we do feel it's time to get one underway.

In terms of Oxford Uni', I'd suggest that we drop Lagash as our 'sixth' Library-University city, and wait for Beijing to come out of resistance for that. Beijing already has an Academy and merged Great Scientist, while Lagash has little long-term potential commerce output and arguably isn't too badly placed to spit out some Settlers or Workers for us now.

I'd also like to consider earmarking cities for some National Wonders, and I have Hangzhou in mind for the National Epic, Beijing for Maoi, and for lack of a stand-out option; Eridu for the Heroic Epic. With the Ziggurats going up, there are some possible spots for the Forbidden Palace, but if we want to keep Beijing clear for something like Maoi-Ironworks, then there aren't that many clear contenders otherwise. Shanghai? Bantu?

Uruk: University > Harbor. Worker to re-build the Plantation.
Eridu: University > Heroic Epic (?) or complete Lighthouse
Kish: Library > University > Jewish Monastery
Lagash: Settlers
Ur: Library > University
Nibru: University
Bad-Tibra: Ziggurat
Sythian: Granary (whip at first opp) > Ziggurat
Harappan : Ziggurat > Worker
Zimbir: Lighthouse > Settler
Xian: Forge > Ziggurat
Nanjing: Ziggurat (I'm assuming we'll cottage-up this city, but we could Farm-Workshop(?)).
Shanghai: Ziggurat > Forge
Beijing: Library > University > Maoi Statues
Hangzhou: Library > National Epic
Guangzhou: Forge​

Roster:

nocho << On Deck
vranasm
pigswill
astre
Folket
lymond
Sengir
Cam << Up​

 

[lymond]

hmmm...damn...we coulda ferried those units over by galley Probably shaved many turns

yeah...I think we can hold off Golden age for a bit. Rep would be nice but we can't really run many specialists right now anyway. GA will have more value after Unis/OX are in.

I'm not recalling a clam island at the moment, but don't see it as a priority. I'd rather fill out the mainland first. Trade routes are marginal on offshore island at this point compared to much earlier. Not that we will not settle every decent spot at some point and we certainly want the clams for Sushi. (mmmm....clam Sushi..love it)

 

[astre]

Well, mainland is fairely filled. we can add 1 filler city near barb city but not mutch more.
If i remember right (can't check the save right now) our TR would be highly beneficial from a off land city. As there is a clam on it, we will seetle at one point. I just propose sooner than latter.

For the rest, the plan seems robust to me. As there is no tech part in the plan i presume you will stop 1 turn from lib for consultation. right?

for Nanjing, i prefer farm/WS

 

[nocho]

I'm on holidays the coming three weeks so you can kick me of deck. Maybe better to drop me to lurker status all together, unfortunately I haven't been able to contribute hardly anything this game.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the 'heads up' nocho. Next time?

Roster:

vranasm << Up
pigswill << On Deck
astre
Folket
lymond
Sengir
Cam​

I played a nine turn set. In summary a huge 'builder' type round.

On the plus side, we took Bantu (lost a Vulture at 63% however in the process), founded Umma (south of Beijing) and Shuruppak (Gold-Rice in the north east), and have a Settler ready to go east of Bantu. We added four Workers, and there's a Barbarian Worker near Bantu that we can pick up. We're one turn from being eligible to build Oxford University. We can build the Forbidden Palace. We're one turn from Liberalism. We traded in Optics. We also got that 17 <> Dye with Washington. A map trade early on reveals the new continent to the north.

On the downside, astre's island got pinched by Lincoln (Albuquerque) before we had a chance to settle it ourselves (we backtracked and settled Umma instead). The AI seemed to have a pretty good turnset tech' wise - Lincoln was first to Economics, and both he and Shaka have Astro'. Units are still a bit shambolic I'm afraid. I've got a couple of Galleys with one War Elephant each on them, while there are a few others in the north that should probably be brought down south. Sitting Bull still has a large garrison of a couple of dozen troops in Moundville. Shaka demanded Philosophy early in the turnset, and I opted to cave-in given it was already known by Lincoln. Following the demand, he shifted to 'Pleased' and we got a Fur <> Banana deal going.

Run through:

Spoiler :

Turns 174-175

Implemented PPP changes (fairly few - Sengir left things well). Opted to go with two Galley builds in Xian in light of the 1x1 island that astre liked, plus lymond's comment on unit movement.

Exchanged world maps with Shaka, which exposed the continent to our north east.

Ziggurats whipped in Bad Tibira and Nanjing, and the first Galley in Xian.

Turn 176

Shaka demanded Philosophy ... as Philo' was already known by Lincoln, who was 'up' Paper on Shaka as well, I agreed. Shaka went to 'Pleased' and was prepared to trade Optics to us.

Bad-Tibira got its Ziggurat, and we 'build Wealth' to grow its population a turn before the earmarked Worker.
Sythian's Granary and Lagash's Settler each got whipped.
Nanjing: Ziggurat > Worker
Xian : Galley > Galley
Hangzhou came out of resistance.
Shuruppak was founded between Rice and Gold resources.

Turn 177

Lagash: Settler > Wealth to re-grow
Scythian: Granary > Ziggurat
Bad-Tibira: Wealth > Worker
Zimbir: Settler > Worker
Hangzhou's Library got whipped
Beijing came out of resistance.

Apostolic Palace vote: Stop trading with Washington. We voted "No".

Lincoln's Galleon is spotted (Astronomy).

Washington: 17 <> Dye
Qin Shi Huang: Optics <> Paper + 130 (best deal going)

Shaka also has Astronomy

Turn 178

Kish: Library > University
Hangzhou: Library > National Epic
Nanjing: Worker > Longbow (cheapest unit for garrison)

Turn 179

Lincoln's Galleon unloads Chariot/Settler/Worker on astre's island.
Lincoln has Education.
Shaka: Banana <> Fur

Technology pushed up to 60%

Uruk: University > Harbor
Libraries whipped in Ur and Beijing
University whipped in Nibru

Turn 180

Ur and Beijing: Libraries > Universities
Nibru: University > Wealth

Turn 181

Zimbir: Worker > Lighthouse
Hangzhou: Defer National Epic for Ziggurat
Umma is founded south of Beijing. It will have Fish in its bfc, and some decent tiles otherwise. Lots of overlap with Beijing and Shanghai.

Turn 182

Harappan: Whip Ziggurat

Lincoln gets a Great Merchant via Economics, so was not chasing Liberalism.

Science up to 100%

Attack on Barbarian city of Bantu ... two out of three ... lost a CR2 Vulture at 63%.

Turn 183

Capture Bantu. There's a Barbarian Worker nearby.

Harappan: Ziggurat > Wealth
Beijing: University > Ziggurat
Ur gets University whip
Xian gets Forge whip

Science down to 80%

Placeholders for consideration?

Uruk: Harbor > Ziggurat
Eridu: University > Heroic Epic
Lagash: Wealth > Longbow
Nibru: Wealth > Harbor
Bad-Tibira: Wealth > Worker
Harappan: Wealth > Caravel

n.b. ... next player; please 'micro Hangzhou' ... citizens shouldn't be on Workshops. I was experimenting on the turn of the save.

Shot of the north showing two new cities and Settler, plus Albuquerque:

Comparisons and Relations:

 

[vranasm]

hmm guys I am afraid I will need the holiday skip already

I could technically check the save today and prepare PPP, but probably won't be able to play it until after my vacation on Crete, which is like 18th....

tomorrow going for my kids and then I have vacation .