Akka
Moody old mage.
Not really curious (unless you meant this ironically), both far-left and far-right tend to be buddy with Russia (Mélenchon and Le Pen are the same here).
The European Project: the future of the EU.
- Thread starter Hrothbern
- Start date
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Right or left doesn't matter anymore. It is democracy against totalitarian. EU vs Trump, Putin and similar scum.
Ordnael
Emperor
We will be having, unfortunately, another election next month as this government, that only stood for 11 months, has been brought down last month. I will be paying attention to what PM candidates have to say on foreign policy and EU relationship.
Snowygerry
Deity
6-10 hrs. to restore electricity to the entire country (Spain) was reported here around 1500 hrs. Probably sooner for parts that are well connected to the rest of the EU.
www.hln.be
Stroompanne in Spanje zal “zes tot tien uur duren”: “We staan voor ongeziene uitdaging” - Tot nu toe geen bewijs voor cyberaanval
Door een grote elektriciteitsstoring zitten delen van Spanje en Portugal nog steeds zonder stroom. Treinen en metrostellen kwamen tot stilstand, verkeerslichten vielen uit en in liften kwamen mensen vast te zitten. De panne zal zes tot tien uur duren, schat de Spaanse netbeheerder Red Eléctrica...
www.hln.be
I read that this also affected Portugal (and for some time a part of France).
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Josu
Emperor
Bilbao has been the first "big" city to recover. Some neighborhoods still are recovering.
We have been without power for about 2 hours. Nothing working except mobile phones. We had internet in mobile and the chance to speak with some friends who live some kilometers away, so I we were knowing that it was not a minor issue. My mom (82 yo) is used to mobile and internet so I had the chance to ask if she was OK, my parents in law (who are older) do not have internet, so in a pair of hours I will have to take the car to check if they need something, because we have not been able to conctact them yet, they live in a 8th and they need the elevator.
I work from home, so I had to stop doing what I was doing. I have decided to switch on the radio to listen what's going on. The radio did not work, not a battery issue, so I have gone to neighboorhood's hardware store. It was open, but were not able to sell because the prices are in the computer. Then I went to a bazaar run by a chinesse family and I bump into tens of people buying watter and candles. After that I have gone to my daughters school to ask whether they were attending kids whole day, on the way there are several bars and cafes. People who was not able to work due to the shutdown were in the terraces as it was a non working day.
So that was my today's experience in the middle ages
I am glad that when this kind of things happen in films, it is a complete chaos and here people used the situation to go to the tavern
We have been without power for about 2 hours. Nothing working except mobile phones. We had internet in mobile and the chance to speak with some friends who live some kilometers away, so I we were knowing that it was not a minor issue. My mom (82 yo) is used to mobile and internet so I had the chance to ask if she was OK, my parents in law (who are older) do not have internet, so in a pair of hours I will have to take the car to check if they need something, because we have not been able to conctact them yet, they live in a 8th and they need the elevator.
I work from home, so I had to stop doing what I was doing. I have decided to switch on the radio to listen what's going on. The radio did not work, not a battery issue, so I have gone to neighboorhood's hardware store. It was open, but were not able to sell because the prices are in the computer. Then I went to a bazaar run by a chinesse family and I bump into tens of people buying watter and candles. After that I have gone to my daughters school to ask whether they were attending kids whole day, on the way there are several bars and cafes. People who was not able to work due to the shutdown were in the terraces as it was a non working day.
So that was my today's experience in the middle ages
I am glad that when this kind of things happen in films, it is a complete chaos and here people used the situation to go to the tavern
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Ordnael
Emperor
Just got light back 10min ago. Damn obese pigeons hitting the lines
My cerveja is doing fine!
My cerveja is doing fine!
Thorgalaeg
Deity
As always, we here in southern Spain were the last ones to get electricity restored, late in the night.
Went for a walk this evening, great atmosphere in the street, lots of people walking around and stores packed, everything was open except farmacies. And people talking each other instead looking to their cellphones, it felt great.
About the causes it was strange the shutdown happened at 12:30, when energy production is at max, 55% of the energy production at that moment was photovoltaic and about 82% renewable, that hour is the peak for energy production, wind was particularly strong too. Maybe the system was not prepared for such excess?
Which wouldn't make much sense since such phenomenon happens everyday at 12:30, maybe yesterday it was specially intense but still...
Another possibility is a outage in France which apparently happened just in the previous moments which fired some chain reaction or something. But I am sure such things have happened before too, so dont make much sense either.
Another possibility is a cyber attack, this theory makes more sense, it would be basically an act of war.
Finally last theory is somebody pushed the wrong button or something. Which means I have not idea how the whole thing works. Maybe somebody with more expertise in the matter could give some insight.
Went for a walk this evening, great atmosphere in the street, lots of people walking around and stores packed, everything was open except farmacies. And people talking each other instead looking to their cellphones, it felt great.
About the causes it was strange the shutdown happened at 12:30, when energy production is at max, 55% of the energy production at that moment was photovoltaic and about 82% renewable, that hour is the peak for energy production, wind was particularly strong too. Maybe the system was not prepared for such excess?
Which wouldn't make much sense since such phenomenon happens everyday at 12:30, maybe yesterday it was specially intense but still...
Another possibility is a outage in France which apparently happened just in the previous moments which fired some chain reaction or something. But I am sure such things have happened before too, so dont make much sense either.
Another possibility is a cyber attack, this theory makes more sense, it would be basically an act of war.
Finally last theory is somebody pushed the wrong button or something. Which means I have not idea how the whole thing works. Maybe somebody with more expertise in the matter could give some insight.
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One would imagine that such belonged in the past (power outage), but apparently not. Let's hope that measures are taken to prevent this level of collapse in the future
Josu
Emperor
Pedro Sanchez said that they are in concact with NATO.
You do not contact NATO if sombody has pushed wrong button.
I follow conspirancy theories just for fun, I don't belive them, in this case I have no a single evidence and I don't know how the power system works. I am pretty sure that it has not been an error in the system or a wrong button.
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Tbf, if there was any chance that this was an attack by a foreign country (eg ubiquitous and level99 russian hackers), they wouldn't be keen on announcing such - losing power in 1/6 of the Eu's network through covert enemy attack doesn't really imply you are to be taken seriously.
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Mega Tsunami
Emperor
Not sure anyone knows the reason for the failure, but it appears the over reliance on renewables has exacerbated the situation, thus:
Traditional energy systems have mechanisms which allow them to keep running even if there is a shock, such as a surge or loss of power.
However, solar and wind do not have the same ability.
Electricity grids need what is known as inertia to help balance the network and maintain electricity supplies at a stable frequency. Inertia is created by generators with spinning parts – such as turbines running on gas, coal or hydropower – which wind and solar do not have.
Britain’s National Energy Systems Operator (Neso) compares it to “the shock absorbers in your car’s suspension, which dampen the effect of a sudden bump in the road and keep your car stable and moving forward”.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy analyst, said: “In a low-inertia environment the frequency can change much faster. If you have had a significant grid fault in one area, or a cyber attack, or whatever it may be, the grid operators therefore have less time to react.
“That can lead to cascading failures if you cannot get it under control quickly.”
www.telegraph.co.uk
Traditional energy systems have mechanisms which allow them to keep running even if there is a shock, such as a surge or loss of power.
However, solar and wind do not have the same ability.
Electricity grids need what is known as inertia to help balance the network and maintain electricity supplies at a stable frequency. Inertia is created by generators with spinning parts – such as turbines running on gas, coal or hydropower – which wind and solar do not have.
Britain’s National Energy Systems Operator (Neso) compares it to “the shock absorbers in your car’s suspension, which dampen the effect of a sudden bump in the road and keep your car stable and moving forward”.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy analyst, said: “In a low-inertia environment the frequency can change much faster. If you have had a significant grid fault in one area, or a cyber attack, or whatever it may be, the grid operators therefore have less time to react.
“That can lead to cascading failures if you cannot get it under control quickly.”
Net zero blamed for blackout chaos
Experts say a reliance on solar and wind power left Spain and Portugal vulnerable
www.telegraph.co.uk
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Mmm, doesn't make much sense for me either. Solar and wind don't stop working because of surge or loss of power. There is not a turbine stopping to begin with. There is nothing stopping in fact, solar panels keep generating while sun shines and wind turbines keep rotating while wind blows, doesn't matter what happens in the network. So the inertia trick seems a solution for a problem that doesn't exist in such case.Not sure anyone knows the reason for the failure, but it appears the over reliance on renewables has exacerbated the situation, thus:
Traditional energy systems have mechanisms which allow them to keep running even if there is a shock, such as a surge or loss of power.
However, solar and wind do not have the same ability.
Electricity grids need what is known as inertia to help balance the network and maintain electricity supplies at a stable frequency. Inertia is created by generators with spinning parts – such as turbines running on gas, coal or hydropower – which wind and solar do not have.
Britain’s National Energy Systems Operator (Neso) compares it to “the shock absorbers in your car’s suspension, which dampen the effect of a sudden bump in the road and keep your car stable and moving forward”.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy analyst, said: “In a low-inertia environment the frequency can change much faster. If you have had a significant grid fault in one area, or a cyber attack, or whatever it may be, the grid operators therefore have less time to react.
“That can lead to cascading failures if you cannot get it under control quickly.”
Net zero blamed for blackout chaos
Experts say a reliance on solar and wind power left Spain and Portugal vulnerable
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Mega Tsunami
Emperor
I searched and found this further explanation:
Spain has one of the highest proportions of renewable energy – 56 per cent on average – in Europe.
And just days ago on April 16, Spain's power grid ran entirely on renewable energy, including wind, solar and hydro power for the first time.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy consultant, said: 'The more you have wind and solar on the grid, the less stable the grid becomes and so the harder it is to manage faults.
'I would say there's a strong chance that the large amount of solar on the system created the conditions for this to be a widespread blackout and made it much worse.'
Traditional generators, like coal and hydroelectric plants or gas turbines, are connected directly to the grid via heavy spinning machines that store inertia, which acts as a shock absorber, protecting against any supply disruption due to changes in electrical frequency.
Ms Porter added: 'When you are in a low-stability situation, it's much harder to control what happens. Electrical things don't like big changes in frequency and shut themselves down. They all start tripping off.
'So, your grid operator will have been sitting there, trying to react to the changes in frequency, but they can't do it fast enough. So that causes a cascading grid failure.'
Portugal's grid operator REN blamed 'extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain' which caused 'anomalous oscillations'. But Steve Loftus, a utility industry analyst, said: 'I don't see anything unusual in the weather that would cause this issue. The cynic in me wonders if there are people who don't want to admit that it's a renewables issue – if it was – because a lot of people are very invested in its success.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Spain has one of the highest proportions of renewable energy – 56 per cent on average – in Europe.
And just days ago on April 16, Spain's power grid ran entirely on renewable energy, including wind, solar and hydro power for the first time.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy consultant, said: 'The more you have wind and solar on the grid, the less stable the grid becomes and so the harder it is to manage faults.
'I would say there's a strong chance that the large amount of solar on the system created the conditions for this to be a widespread blackout and made it much worse.'
Traditional generators, like coal and hydroelectric plants or gas turbines, are connected directly to the grid via heavy spinning machines that store inertia, which acts as a shock absorber, protecting against any supply disruption due to changes in electrical frequency.
Ms Porter added: 'When you are in a low-stability situation, it's much harder to control what happens. Electrical things don't like big changes in frequency and shut themselves down. They all start tripping off.
'So, your grid operator will have been sitting there, trying to react to the changes in frequency, but they can't do it fast enough. So that causes a cascading grid failure.'
Portugal's grid operator REN blamed 'extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain' which caused 'anomalous oscillations'. But Steve Loftus, a utility industry analyst, said: 'I don't see anything unusual in the weather that would cause this issue. The cynic in me wonders if there are people who don't want to admit that it's a renewables issue – if it was – because a lot of people are very invested in its success.
Is Net Zero to blame for Spain blackout chaos?
The country declared a state of emergency last night and said it was deploying 30,000 police officers as part of security measures to deal with the mayhem caused by the calamitous outage.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
And many people is very invested in its failure I would add, most problebably herself. Some projection in that last sentence.I searched and found this further explanation:
Spain has one of the highest proportions of renewable energy – 56 per cent on average – in Europe.
And just days ago on April 16, Spain's power grid ran entirely on renewable energy, including wind, solar and hydro power for the first time.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy consultant, said: 'The more you have wind and solar on the grid, the less stable the grid becomes and so the harder it is to manage faults.
'I would say there's a strong chance that the large amount of solar on the system created the conditions for this to be a widespread blackout and made it much worse.'
Traditional generators, like coal and hydroelectric plants or gas turbines, are connected directly to the grid via heavy spinning machines that store inertia, which acts as a shock absorber, protecting against any supply disruption due to changes in electrical frequency.
Ms Porter added: 'When you are in a low-stability situation, it's much harder to control what happens. Electrical things don't like big changes in frequency and shut themselves down. They all start tripping off.
'So, your grid operator will have been sitting there, trying to react to the changes in frequency, but they can't do it fast enough. So that causes a cascading grid failure.'
Portugal's grid operator REN blamed 'extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain' which caused 'anomalous oscillations'. But Steve Loftus, a utility industry analyst, said: 'I don't see anything unusual in the weather that would cause this issue. The cynic in me wonders if there are people who don't want to admit that it's a renewables issue – if it was – because a lot of people are very invested in its success.
Is Net Zero to blame for Spain blackout chaos?
The country declared a state of emergency last night and said it was deploying 30,000 police officers as part of security measures to deal with the mayhem caused by the calamitous outage.
It may be though, I have not enough knowledge to make an informed opinion. We will know eventually I suppose. Dont buy the 'panic' part in the tittle however, maybe some traffic mess, but there was not any panic, much on the contrary.
The outage wasnt that long in most places either. In my city it lasted the most, like 9 or 10 hours, but in another city a few kilometers away it lasted like 4 hours only. So it seems after initial failure restoring power depended on a number of factors, not only how close it was to France as have been said.
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Josu
Emperor
Yeah OK. Renewable energy is not stable.I searched and found this further explanation:
Spain has one of the highest proportions of renewable energy – 56 per cent on average – in Europe.
And just days ago on April 16, Spain's power grid ran entirely on renewable energy, including wind, solar and hydro power for the first time.
Kathryn Porter, an independent energy consultant, said: 'The more you have wind and solar on the grid, the less stable the grid becomes and so the harder it is to manage faults.
'I would say there's a strong chance that the large amount of solar on the system created the conditions for this to be a widespread blackout and made it much worse.'
Traditional generators, like coal and hydroelectric plants or gas turbines, are connected directly to the grid via heavy spinning machines that store inertia, which acts as a shock absorber, protecting against any supply disruption due to changes in electrical frequency.
Ms Porter added: 'When you are in a low-stability situation, it's much harder to control what happens. Electrical things don't like big changes in frequency and shut themselves down. They all start tripping off.
'So, your grid operator will have been sitting there, trying to react to the changes in frequency, but they can't do it fast enough. So that causes a cascading grid failure.'
Portugal's grid operator REN blamed 'extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain' which caused 'anomalous oscillations'. But Steve Loftus, a utility industry analyst, said: 'I don't see anything unusual in the weather that would cause this issue. The cynic in me wonders if there are people who don't want to admit that it's a renewables issue – if it was – because a lot of people are very invested in its success.
Is Net Zero to blame for Spain blackout chaos?
The country declared a state of emergency last night and said it was deploying 30,000 police officers as part of security measures to deal with the mayhem caused by the calamitous outage.
The disruption was caused because the electric system lost 15 GW in 5 seconds. What caused this? No wind suddenly?
