The European Project: the future of the EU.

The sofa thing is a bit funny since it becomes an issue supposedly itself good enough to have Draghi term Erdogan a dictator, while the Eu conveniently doesn't care that Turkey doesn't even recognize an Eu member state (Cyprus) and has legislated to go to war against another Eu state (Greece) if Greece extends its sea border to the lawful 12 miles.

Tldr: the Eu is the same crap it always was; Draghi likely wishes to position himself better to do stuff within it, is all.

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no , nobody is going to fight for you . The Alliance warfare in the 21st Century is full blown getting others to die for you as you think you will stand back and enjoy the show and "headshot" kill the rest .
 
no , nobody is going to fight for you . The Alliance warfare in the 21st Century is full blown getting others to die for you as you think you will stand back and enjoy the show and "headshot" kill the rest .

No one expects others to fight for you. I expect Greece to veto stuff so as to get Turkey to behave like a normal country. Otherwise being a member in the Eu means exactly nothing.
 
because we obviously will fight for ourselves .
 
once blowing up the USN and shooting down the USAF and bayoneting the US Army , we will suddenly discover our lslamists are entirely peace loving . How else do you think the Civil War has been averted since 2013 something ?
 
Hm, strange. Seems the greek foreign minister actually has a spine.
(some spicy statements in the meeting at Ankara, with the usual ridiculous sentiments)
I liked his final answer: "I hope you won't cancel the dinner after this, because I am extremely hungry" :rotfl: Maybe he should run for PM next, I mean it is better than nothing.
 
nothing troublesome . As usual New Turkey has painted itself to a corner and America orders this and that , having just released some chief enabler of the Ergenekon conspiracies , through the European Human Rights Court finding some or more than some faults with the way the enabler was tried . Which was never worse than what the Congregation had given back in the day , but hey , this is how everybody hates Turks but rejects a proper thing by all means . So , unlike the presentation , the Greek Foreign Minister knew he could have his thing as he directly talked to the PM , fixed last night by some emergency arrangements . Actually it was a retired ambrassador that had met some advisor of the PM during the last time they were here which in itself was a failure of protocol and stuff by New Turkey . Ah , yes , another reason why von der Leyen was filmed grunting ... Luckily for the world peace , everybody knows my war planning is entirely seperate ...

also ı was the only person posting in off topic in the last 35 minutes !
 
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Kind of old by now, but an hilarious exposition on the "sofagate" thing. Streek is always worth reading.

Beyond the comic trivia, he also hits the nerve:

Assuming that the dual trip was not just a diversion from the hardships of the Belgian lockdown, one might entertain the suspicion that the diplomatic overkill was to express regret over and ask forgiveness for the harsh words from the EU when a few years ago, Prime Minister Erdoğan turned himself into President Erdoğan and, a short time later, into Dictator Erdoğan – in other words, that the visit was to mark the beginning of another wonderful friendship. One reason why the EU would find this desirable would be the important function Erdoğan has never ceased to perform for the EU’s internal peace and quiet: enabling it, in short, to maintain a liberal immigration and asylum regime pleasing some voters without having to let it take effect, pleasing other voters.

This Erdoğan does by keeping millions of refugees bottled up in Turkey, mostly Syrians driven from their homes by a never-ending civil war prolonged by ‘the West’s’ demand for a ‘regime change’ that it is unable to bring it about – a service for which he collects, one hears, roughly three billion euros per year. Should he cease to do so, hundreds of thousands of Syrian and other refugees would call the bluff on European (i.e. German) largesse, forcing European governments and the EU either to face a revolt from the right, or take on the liberal left in a battle for realistic reform of an unrealistic, politically unsustainable legal regime that serves no other purpose than the signalling of virtue, inwards as well as outwards. With Erdoğan as a robust gatekeeper, appointed by Angela Merkel acting in 2016 as de facto president of the EU, the ‘friendly face’ of Europe (Merkel) can be saved without having to become more than that: a façade.

Without any sofa at all on that fateful day was Osman Kavala, a wealthy Turkish citizen who devotes his fortune to cultural, political and educational projects in his country. Kavala sees himself as a bridge-builder between Turkey and Western Europe, working with Turkish and European partners for democracy in his country and for peaceful relations with its European neighbors. Since October 2017 he has spent his time in solitary confinement, originally accused of having incited the Gezi Park demonstrations three years earlier. In 2019 he was finally tried, and in February 2020 was acquitted of all charges. As he was about to leave the court building he was arrested again, this time for alleged involvement in the so-called Gülen putsch of 2016. The judges who acquitted him are now themselves under investigation for supporting terrorism. In December 2020, four months before the two European Presidents’ trip to Turkey, his second trial began. The prosecutors are demanding lifetime imprisonment for participating in the putsch and an additional 20 years for espionage. The previous acquittal was overturned and the case will be tried again. The European Court of Human Rights and several other European bodies, including the EU Parliament, have repeatedly called for Kavala’s immediate release, to no avail. Indeed, Michel and von der Leyen’s presidential counterpart has several times publicly pronounced Kavala guilty. And he is not the only one. As of July 2020, 58,409 were on trial and 132,954 under criminal investigation for links to the Gülen movement; at least 8,500 were locked away for alleged ties to the PKK; dissenters have disappeared, and detainees are frequently tortured.

Questions: Might not the two Presidents have made their appearance in Erdoğan’s living room conditional on Kavala’s release? How could Sofagate have crowded out Kavalagate as the European public’s scandal of the week? And why does ‘Europe’, as embodied by the EU, impose sanctions on Putin for Navalny while granting Erdoğan a visit from two Presidents at once in spite of Kavala?
 
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kavala is a Sho-ross man , funding the A-K-P in its early days for Democracy , taking a paintbrush to cover the insults at the PM's mother during the Gezi Events and yet staying at the forefront to keep it a toothless liberal tree hugging thing . Gezi started exactly as that , one brief spurt of violence or whatever that "scared" the police and totally jarred the system , toothless liberal daydreaming and then fake escalations and stuff to switch it off . And yeah , the article is still deficient . Probably some European Human Rights court thing that has to be followed , somehow , finally , at the end of the day , and Kavala collected his stuff and made it the very gate of the jail , to be re-arrested at the gate , on a little different version of the charges he had been cleared off by European legal process . Kavala must be the reason why PM actually called on courts , on TV , while covered live , reading the statement from the prompter that the judges should ignore any such European Court decisions and the Treasury will pay the inevitable compensation claims .

this is all about making an example for the courtiers and staff , that they will suffer and no outside pressure will work as everyone loves the PM more , in the end of the day .

and Sofagate was previously agreed upon , including von der Leyen , the "foreignest" looking person , especially as a woman , was taught her place . And it is more about plunder , the refugees is just visible cover for Western support for the destruction of the Republic .
 
Questions: Might not the two Presidents have made their appearance in Erdoğan’s living room conditional on Kavala’s release ? [...]

I very much doubt it.

One should not underestimate the role of personal ambitions and human psychology in these matters.

Imho this article is closer to the truth :

Presidential power wars: Von der Leyen vs. Michel – POLITICO

“I see it in the dynamic in the European Council,” said a diplomat who has observed von der Leyen among the heads of state and government. “When Merkel is not around, she wants to be a superstar, but when Merkel is around, Merkel still sees her as her minister. They know each other. They like each other. But she’s not a peer. And if you feel this, you overcompensate.”

Another former senior European official who has interacted personally with the leaders said Michel was the one who was overcompensating, trying to make up for an unremarkable one-term stint as prime minister in Belgium, and to add stature to his current post, which is primarily responsible for convening meetings of the European Council where the 27 heads around the table make the actual decisions.

They both are what the Germans call 'strebers' - in that context it makes perfect sense for them to literally compete for same chair.

Of course such internal struggles rarely go unnoticed, even when they are not fully understood :

At the time, some African officials expressed surprise at the sudden, intense interest from Europe, thinking that perhaps the EU’s new leaders were showing off for constituents back home. In hindsight, it was evidence of a tug of war underway between the presidents.
 
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moar power to my thesis ; if they are already fighting for chairs , von der Leyen will definitely find a replacement for her protocol chief that catches coronavirus on that week . Plus the Umbrellagate where Obama got Marines hold umbrellas for him and -uhmm- for the PM , much famous for beating an evil military but held back and might be seen losing traction by a multitude of interested parties , and oh my , he even gets the US Military in a servile position , and stuff .

but then , mayhaps , still falling so short of Boris Johnson taking over a Britain , as a descendant of a guy lynched in the street (in 1922) after a victorious campaign that talked against Turks coming in with wave after wave of refugees to a Britain already occupied by Polish plumbers , invoking the spirit of the Summer of 1940 by a Spitfire that didn't exist at the time and the Polish Squadron in question flew Hurricanes at the time and it had to disobey RAF orders to fight the Nazis , leaving aside the issue of becoming a most successful unit in doing so ... lf New Turkey seems weird , it is much due to that they have always experienced winning conspiracies .


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so , even went to TWC thing where they apparently banned all sorts of "relevant Greeks" . Supposedly the 3 Ambrassadors of London to some countries around the Mediterranean had a meeting with Greek bigshots . Revolving around A-K-P losing the elections . That the PM is willing to step down in return for immunity . Seems very unlikely , with America pushing the long used almost racists against Britain's real and wannabe Arabs , with repeated leaks that will "connect" the PM to actual drug traffic stuff . They , the Americans ı mean , are missing their loyal Congregation puppies . Which runs the "risk" of risking the PM's legacy , lately touring Africa asking for a re-organization of the UN in the name of justice and all ; even if it mostly revolves about making Qatar the ruler of just more . And everyone in New Turkey will suddenly discover any truth , as soon and fast as they get a new one to pay them ...

accordingly , semi-hard pressed London warns Athens that the PM might want to go with a blaze of glory . You know , a little war . Seems 180 degrees off . It is leaked to prepare the groundwork to keep Qatar still in charge . A long rumoured palace coup to be realized by by the head of the so called national intelligence . And the former chief of the goverment generals , who would have toppled the PM during the Disgrace of July 15th but after Obama / Bidon the then VP chose otherwise and the guy was given the redness of a belt on his neck as he was throttled by the Congregation to ease his way . If the Presidency is not directly turned over to the 11th President , the Turkish branch of George Clooney , claimed to have joined the Congregation at the same time with his best pal (the former chief of goverment generals) , but always described as the Queen's best subject in this country in anycase .

if not , the war ...

oh-kay , they will NOT be able to stick that on me ...

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in space YOU can really hear you scream . You are not in space anyhow . Avoid the eagerness to have things demonstrated ...
 
and silly me for failing to make a note of the claims that unhappy Qatar organized the killing of a British MP to show unhappiness at poor London which so speedily folded to pressure to sell a few submarines to Australia ... Had ı known , ı would have bought a dozen or two , to save millions who got dead in the Arab Spring ...
 
Re the previous post -

I want to understand this.

I think I need it reduced to billet points.
 
trump and Theresa May agreed to turn New Turkey into a full British colony or whatever after the Brexit accident

considering New Turkey lacked willpower and whatnot to carry out the invasion of Syria and initial military defeat of lran

bidon the barrel loves Congregation New Turkey more in contrast to PM who demands to be an equal , a idea that he gained back in the days he was a "co-president of the Greater Middle East lnitiative"

a-K-P losing power requires a coalition with almost racists , who have been more accessible for Americans since the former lost their Nazi bosses in about 1944

the power struggles of which see all sorts of documentation , real or otherwise , is set aside to hold the PM under pressure to control the loose cannon New Turkey is ; kifayetsiz muhteris / wants a lot but can not

during Merkel's farewell visit , after the latter's behind the screen pressure to behave as befits the true situation , down to releasing the Sho-ross man Kavala , whose saga just saw 10 countries releasing a common statement yesterday or so

which only resulted in PM (not by any accident) that he had ended coalitions in Turkey , with all the attendant weaknesses they entail or not and advised Merkel to apply the same sort of Presidency to Germany , even if Merkel is leaving for health reasons which were kinda more visible than the PM's and her return to power would give more leverage to the PM to face Anglosaxon pressure . This despite all the little history of a guy with an odd style of mustasche , ı think Hitler by name

accordingly after saying some harsh words to Doha after its alleged role in the murder of the MP (who incidentally was in the Qatari friendship group in the British Parliament) London makes it heard that there will be war , with the 15 000 would-be-jihadists placed within the ranks of Army of Petrol between 2016-19 doing their share of backstabbing

she is vintage 1949 , nobody would claim me claiming an affair

ı can do both sides of this . Who else can ?

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yeah , am liked far more when nobody understands me
 
in just a day or two New Turkey got itself into the grey list for failing to take effective measures against money laundering . This being the second time , it appears ... The previous one seems to have some assistance to fix the issues ? The surprise is of course lceland being in that list , like only the "white country" or whatever . The interest rates were lowered with massive 2% to 16 or so , against expected 0,5 . Which totally conflicts with regular economic theories . The explanation seems to revolve around different ideas , that it might be "regular speculation by goverment" or goverment members , funding ( part of) the election campaign with the killing to be made or create a false heaven of short duration mated with early elections . An economic disaster is expected ; so much that professionals in economics really but really want the voter base of the Party to live through hell to understand what they have been voting for in the last 20 years ...

the PM filmed dozing off in a press conference in Africa , with a reported unconcious move to pick his nose ; which might be a wildly untrue interpretation of events , as there is no footage . His people are semi-active with little apparent success . The reports of an imminent Greek attack not really effective in rallying the voters , so it turns 15 Mossad agents were arrested a fortnight ago . To be honest the only reason ı saw the French had given guarantees to use nuclear weapons against us to help the Greeks , uhm , supposedly for real , was because it was in a rant against perfidious Australians cancelling the submarine deal .

though the main thing not really talked about is how the Prime Minister of the Northern Cyprus and a similar high ranking politician became the first victims of the new phase . Filmed or rather hacked during their regular phone use , sexually satisfying themselves . The Prime Minister lasting 41 seconds , even before the "honey" on the other side of the phone connection got to take her underwear fully off , has no particular significance yet reported . The context being these politicians were bought off by the top drug traficker / gambling operator and rewarded by women , with naturally more options readily available in contrast to those in Ankara . Which probably no longer applies in the way it might have been in the past ... All sorts of women can be brought for the "sector" and stuff ... Threatened by the mafia boss fugitive guy in May , the politicians then followed Ankara's orders and arrested the traffic guy and forced him to talk against the mafia boss fugitive guy . Who turned out to have captured the "blackmail stocks" of the traffic guy . Who supposedly had an heart attack for losing such assets ; even if everybody knows an hospital is somewhat more comfortable than prison , with easier connections to outside world of mafias as the personal empires crumble ... Everybody has heard there are more tapes , especially involving people in Ankara ... In a previous life Congregation weakened the almost racist with removing 6 of their top officials with sex tapes ; meaning there are at least 4 more leaks to happen .

seemingly a lot disbelief in almost racists stabbing the lhvan , real or wannabe kinds both present , in the back . The narrative goes that the PM was cheated by the Congregation and the almost racists oppressed by foreign designs trying to create a Kurdish Nation State . Then the Disgrace of July 15th and the PM had no one to trust and the almost racists offered their support and were handsomely rewarded with jobs in the State sector and the right to have juicy contracts , speedily invading the state . So much that it is them who now controls the country . It would be against their interests . Even when the PM practically called the leader of the almosts racists as gay during election rallies .

which happens to be not true at all . The role of the almost racists at the rise of New Turkey / Congregation was keeping the security apparatus of the country under control ... lt is for nothing that the only positive thing New Turkey media of the time said about almost racists was that their leader kept them off the streets . They never burned tires or shouted anything worthwhile as the Counter-Revolution was creating massive waves of rgasm all over the world . Almost racists stayed relevant for the non-coms and the conscripts and especially for the Police who would have somewhat opposed the whole sale destruction of the Republic ... as the political schwerpunkt was turning the Main Opposition into a party of only Alevis , to remove any accidental possibility of it becoming a real avenue for discontent . The moment when the Civil War would start in this country would be only chosen by America ; never to be pre-empted by Turks . With the "security" either infiltrated by Congregation or inspired by and influenced by the almost racists , the Turks would not dare . To do anything to prevent the gas chambers thst would be built .

they never even wanted power for themselves . As their highly principled leader , always resolute to ignore slights until the moment would really come go throw a fit ... created the early elections that brought A-K-P to power in 2002 ... And saved A-K-P from total destruction in 2015 when it failed to win enough seats to form the Goverment . How much an accident it can be , when their party is called the spare wheel of the Party ? Saving the country in 2016 was actually saving A-K-P from any "illegal" feeling that it was not allmighty and people might have to answer someday , somehow ... When New Turkey ends , everybody will hear the almost racist rants that the current leader was just a high ranking member in the very top echelons before the 1980 coup and he was the only one in his group not to be arrested , ever , so that he could "organize" ... as any other possible contender was in jail for years . Nobody could challenge his hold in elections for party committees . Of course , when it looked like his defensiveness was likely to cause the end of the almost racists (with some voters going over to A-K-P and those in the West definitely to Main Opposition) an attempt to re-elect a new leader was made ... And New Turkey used the courts to stop it . A new party had to be established and these days it looks forward to be the "Center Right" . The almost racist party symbol , the three crescents itself was proposed by the so called Uncle Levon or something in late 1960s . An ethnic Armenian brought to high power because of the ClA reports that the almost racists lacked the intellectual skillsets for their tasks , with the Armenian guy being the perfect anti-Semite . Someguy saying something does nor really require the someguy to be a true believer ...
 
Perish the thought of in any way, shape or form infringing on the expositions about the world of r16 – but at this point would something like a "New Turkey" thread be better justified, than keeping it all in a thread ostensibly about the future of the EU?

Otoh "the EU" – like the concept of "Europe" generally before – tends to means just what that last speaker put into it...
 
Are there any current news about the EU anyway?

Oh right, Poland exposed that big countries with popular (excuse me, "populist") can do whatever they please anyway. They don't need the EU, it's true purpose being a fig leaf for governments enacting unpopular policies.
Shall we discuss the future of the EU in a possible context of more governments that do not need the fig leaf?
 
Are there any current news about the EU anyway?

Oh right, Poland exposed that big countries with popular (excuse me, "populist") can do whatever they please anyway. They don't need the EU, it's true purpose being a fig leaf for governments enacting unpopular policies.
Shall we discuss the future of the EU in a possible context of more governments that do not need the fig leaf?
Ya think?
 
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