The Flow Chart of History

[aronnax]

I have always been obsessed with sucessor states. What comes first, what goes next and so on. So I decided to organise the information, extracted from Wiki, in a flow chart form. The reason for this thread? Proof read please, and tell me of any errors and improvements. Secondly, to show off my waste of time. Its a work in progress btw. If you are also bored like me and have a lot of spare time, create your own flow chart, it will be a CFC project. Mapping our History

I'm planning to do the flow chart history of existing countries, so please don't obsess with me if your favourite tiny little Soviet of Drunkofherassistan isn't included.

Nations history's which are partly or fully completed

Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary, UK, Ireland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania

Note: I don't include short-lived states of less than 1 year unless they are transitory states.


1-Poland-Germany-Austria-Hungary Chart

Spoiler :

2-Germany Chart

Spoiler :

3-Estonia-Lithuania-Latvia Chart

Spoiler :

4-UK-Ireland Chart

Spoiler :

5-Wales Chart

Spoiler :

6-Italy-San Marino-Vatican City Chart

Spoiler :

Tailesskangaroo's Ottoman Succesion Chart

Spoiler :

 

[RedRalph]

Fascinating! Great job, very impressive!

 

[Sharwood]

And I thought I didn't get out much.

 

[LightSpectra]

Why does your Germany flowchart not say anything about the Carolingian Empire or the Holy Roman Empire? Might I suggest a different color border for the states that (a) were under control of the HRE, and (b) were nominally members of the HRE?

 

[Dachs]

Why does your Germany flowchart not say anything about the Carolingian Empire or the Holy Roman Empire? Might I suggest a different color border for the states that (a) were under control of the HRE, and (b) were nominally members of the HRE?

I'd wager because the flowchart doesn't go back that far yet. You know, since it seems to start in the first decade of the 19th century, not a whole lotta room there for Carolingians/Pippinids/Merovingians/your mom.

 

[LightSpectra]

I'd wager because the flowchart doesn't go back that far yet. You know, since it seems to start in the first decade of the 19th century, not a whole lotta room there for Carolingians/Pippinids/Merovingians/your mom.

I'm talking about chart #2. It goes back to 15 B.C.

 

[Dachs]

Oh, right. Yeah, that one has some pretty big holes.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

This looks very interesting. What would be really cool is if this were web based and you were, for example, able to click on a state and go to the wikipedia article on it.

Also, I love having the flags.

 

[aronnax]

Why does your Germany flowchart not say anything about the Carolingian Empire or the Holy Roman Empire? Might I suggest a different color border for the states that (a) were under control of the HRE, and (b) were nominally members of the HRE?

Oh, right. Yeah, that one has some pretty big holes.

Well. The Holy Roman Empire to me was a huge question. Firstly, the HRE is to me, comparable to the EU. Member states were part of it, but not exactly ruled by it. So I decided to leave HRE out. Secondly, regarding the Carolingians and Merovingians, from what I know, they had more control over various areas. However, the few German states that existed to form Germany, spent most of their time as a vassal or tributary to the two Frankish states rather than as part of it. Vassal States are considered to have some form of self rule so I left them as their vassals rather than "Province of Carolingian Empire"

For example, in chart 2 Bavaria is show as "Duchy of Bavaria" at various times, the Duchy was a vassal of Carolingian, but not really ruled by them. Whereas, further down the Bavarian Chart, the Celtic-Germanic population of the Bavarian region was under direct or at least, stronger rule of the Roman Empire and listed as "Province of Raetia...."

Similarly, in the Wuttermberg line, the Duchy of Alamannia was absorbed into direct rule of the Carolingian's (noted down) before receiving Vassalhood of "Duchy of Swabia"

Im unsure of Branderburg and Thuringia past.

So there. Though, the Saxony line is not complete, I know that they were under Frankish control of some vague area.

 

[aronnax]

Fascinating! Great job, very impressive!

And I thought I didn't get out much.

I'll take that as a

This looks very interesting. What would be really cool is if this were web based and you were, for example, able to click on a state and go to the wikipedia article on it.

Also, I love having the flags.

I thought the flags would brighten things . Hmm Web-base... may do that after I finish all the European Countries.

Though I am not looking forward to doing Russia... so many loops...

 

[Dragonlord]

Fascinating!

Just one suggestion for now: When you have parallel flows, like in the German flow-chart, you should keep states of the same era on the same level of the chart - that way you can see what the component states of today's Germany were in, say, 1500, at one glance instead of searching all over the chart.

 

[aronnax]

Fascinating!

Just one suggestion for now: When you have parallel flows, like in the German flow-chart, you should keep states of the same era on the same level of the chart - that way you can see what the component states of today's Germany were in, say, 1500, at one glance instead of searching all over the chart.

That would require a whole new type of a chart which would be more detailed, longer and harder to achieve on msn paint.

But I suppose I could try that.

 

[Tee Kay]

The Ottoman Empire (Please tell me if I've missed anything)

Spoiler big image :

 

[aronnax]

Woah, Tailesskangaroo! Awesome Chart. Though we differ in how our charts are formed.
Mine would be like the Predecessors of Turkey (What Preceded Turkey) while yours is more Successors of the Ottoman Empire (What succeeded the Ottomans)

And you also focus more on Geographic Succession (along with political succession) on yours.
Like for example, Saudi Arabia is a successor state of the Ottoman Empire, not from the Hejaz provinces lost in 1918 as in your format but from seceding as the first Saudi State in 1744.
Then being reabsorbed by the Ottoman Empire again as "XXX Provinces" then seceding again in the 1800s before being reformed as Saudi Arabia and so on.


Still! Awesome map! I'll include yours at the beginning post.

 

[Tee Kay]

The Ottomans never really controlled Nejd though, so the rise of the Saudis there was not a rebellion against the Ottomans. It was only when the Saudis start attacking Ottoman territories (eg. Hejaz) that war broke out. After the Saudis were defeated the region was briefly occupied by Egyptians forces loyal to Muhammad Ali in Cairo. In any case the Saudis soon founded another state and the Ottomans never managed to gain control over Nejd and it was never formally incorporated as a province IIRC.

 

[RedRalph]

France and its imperial possesions would surely be worth doing

 

[Plotinus]

What's your definition of "state" here? I don't understand why the Third Reich represents a "successor state" to the Weimar Republic while the Norman Conquest of England doesn't represent a "successor state" to the Saxon period, being instead represented as just part of "kingdom of England 927-1649".

 

[RedRalph]

What's your definition of "state" here? I don't understand why the Third Reich represents a "successor state" to the Weimar Republic while the Norman Conquest of England doesn't represent a "successor state" to the Saxon period, being instead represented as just part of "kingdom of England 927-1649".

I'm not having a go at you here, but I think this is intended as an interesting and informative flow chart for enjoyment, rather than a very specific technically correct document, I wouldnt worry too much about these definitions.

 

[Plotinus]

Fair enough. I was just curious rather than seeking to poke holes!

 

[aronnax]

France and its imperial possesions would surely be worth doing

Im doing Italy now, and I tell you, that its a freaking mess. Things gets so blurry before 1000 AD

What's your definition of "state" here? I don't understand why the Third Reich represents a "successor state" to the Weimar Republic while the Norman Conquest of England doesn't represent a "successor state" to the Saxon period, being instead represented as just part of "kingdom of England 927-1649".

The definition of State varies from time period to time period. It is most distinct at the 19th Century and after and breaks down to be rather vague as you go further down.
I have a few reason for not putting in Norman Conquest. Well firstly, If I was to list each Dynasty of the same country, it would be very long, rather pointless (some dynasty changed England, some didn't). Secondly, it was the same Crown of England, Fuhrer and President are quite different. Thirdly, as English 11th century law is a bit sketchy Im stretching here, in some ways, it was the "same" legal system of England. However, due to the sheer vagueness of statehood to an historic era without such a concept of state, its hard to define State and hence, having a definite system.

It just felt more appropriate to do so.

I'm not having a go at you here, but I think this is intended as an interesting and informative flow chart for enjoyment, rather than a very specific technically correct document, I wouldnt worry too much about these definitions.

Or... what he said...