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The Goths for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    alaric.png
    Leader - Alaric I
    Spoiler Alaric in Action :



    UA - Sacker of Rome:
    • Land units may use enemy roads and heal 10 more HP when Pillaging.
    • Capturing Cities grants +30% :c5culture:Culture and :c5production:Production boost in all Cities.
    • Capturing a foreign :c5capital: Capital triggers a :c5goldenage: Golden Age.
    Stainskip.png
    UI: Stainskip

    Unlocks at Bronze Working
    Must be built on flat grass, plains, or tundra with no resources or features.
    On construction, consumes 2 Loot Resources
    2:c5faith:1:c5production:1:c5gold:1:c5capital: (Great General Points)
    1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Iron Working
    1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Steel
    1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Metallurgy
    1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Replaceable Parts
    1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Mobile Tactics

    GraveGoods.png
    Loot
    Unique resource used to make the Stainskip Unique improvement ande the Gadrauht Unique Unit
    Gain Loot whenever the Goths:
    • Conquer a city (gain 2)
    • Clear a Barbarian Camp
    • Pillage a total of 25:c5gold:Gold from tiles
    • Build a Gulthsmitha (4UC only)
    Gadraught.png
    UU1: Gadrauht - Swordsman
    Unlocks at Iron Working
    100:c5production:
    Requires iron or Loot

    2 :c5moves: Moves
    17:c5strength:CS
    Thervingi (+15%:c5strength:CS in Rough Terrain. 25% Damage Reduction from Cities)
    Drill I
    Cover I
    Spoiler 4UC :

    Groethungi.png
    UU2: Groethungi Cavalry (Knight replacement)
    Unlocks at Chivalry
    :c5production:200
    Requires horses
    4:c5moves: Moves
    24:c5strength:CS
    Can move after attacking
    No bonuses from Defensive terrain
    Reduced :c5strength:Penalty vs Cities (-25%)
    Reinforcements (+10% from flanking. +15%:c5strength:Strength against a unit for each attack it has already taken this turn)

    Gulthsmitha.png
    UB: Gulthsmitha (Forge)
    Available at Iron Working
    150:c5production:
    No :c5gold: Gold maintenance

    1:c5science:1:c5culture:1:c5gold:1:c5faith:
    1:c5culture:1:c5gold: for every 15:c5war:War Supply on Empire
    +1 :c5war:War Supply
    +1 Grave Goods Resource

    1 Engineer Specialist
    All Nearby Mines gain +2:c5production:
    +1:c5production::c5gold: to Iron
    +2:c5gold: Copper
    For each unit you kill, the next unit trained in this City gains +1XP. Training a new unit in this city resets this bonus to 0.

    Credits:
    • Aelfric - Music (Attila's Death Song, Praise of Tiw)
    • Hrothiland Bairhteins and Hairutila: Gothic language Consultation for Alaric Leader script
      • Special thanks to the whole Gothic Revival Community for their resources and facilitation with learning to read and speak Gothic!
    • Firaxis: Civ and Gadraught Icons
    • Janboruta: Map and Groethungi Icon (modified by pineappledan)
    • Asterix Rage: 3 Unique Promotion Icons
    • Danrell: Groethungi model (modified by pineappledan)
    • Tomatekh: City list, Spy list, civilopedia entries for Goths, Alaric, and Gadraught
    • Andrew Holt: DOM speech
    • Hinin: Alaric Leader Voice & design help
    • Enginseer: help with lua
    • HungryForFood: DLL code for improvements consuming resources
    • Iska: DoM graphic
    • Iska, Wodhann & Deliverator: Alaric I Leader 3D scene (and contribution to leader icon)
    • pineappledan: Everything else
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Reserved.

    I am releasing the civ now, because it is code complete, but the DLL does not have all the functions that it uses.
    If you attempt to play this civ right now, the Stainskip will be buildable with no resource consumption limitations, but it will be playable.

    To do: Edit the graphics on the stainskip a little to make the ground transition on Tundra smoother
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  3. AndreyK

    AndreyK Prince

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    UA grants boost to culture+prod for how long? If it permanent that would be too much
     
  4. Padre19

    Padre19 Warlord

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    will you add a voice for David(Israel) too?
     
  5. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Obviously, it's only temporary, with the length based on the number of citizens in the captured cities. It's basically a weaker version of what the French UA does, knowing that the French UA is currently overpowered, and will surely be reworked in the near future, so the current overlap won't last very long.
     
  6. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    It's the same bonus as Esprit de Corp, but weaker (30% vs 40%), so it scales 1 turn for every 2:c5citizen:Population before capture.
    I think the bonus just fits better here than it does on France. I'm hoping France can be changed, because they are just too strong right now.
    Yes, I intend to, but I am reliant on finding someone who speaks Hebrew to consult and voice the script in that case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  7. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper King

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    Gravegoods does not have a Monopoly bonus, right?
     
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  9. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    Looks great, Pineappledan, kudos for the great work!

    A few questions:
    - does the bonus GA on capital capture apply only the first time you capture a particular capital?
    - does the bonus GA on capital capture apply to capturing city state "capitals"?
    - can the UI be built next to another UI?
    - does the Thervengi promotion remain with upgrade?
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    First time capture only
    Major civ capitals only
    Yes
    yes
     
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  11. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    Really very impressive, everything is there. Fabulous job !!!
     
  12. Padre19

    Padre19 Warlord

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    Gadraught req Iron ?
     
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  13. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    Dose Gadraught not get cover I?
     
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  15. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Supreme Leader welcomes "Bootleg Attila" to the fray! I don't know much about the Goths, but this all looks really sweet.

    Hopefully this can act as another catalyst for adjusting Napoleon. I'm probably just misunderstanding, but how does the "Reinforcements" promo differ from the subsequent attack bonus of the French UA? Those swordsmen are going to be monsters, by the way.
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    they are identical, but the reinforcement promo is only on 1 unit whereas France is on all units.
     
  17. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Spoiler I like to write about Goths :
    So, after some tests in various conditions (where I auto-disciplined myself into only having the maximum number of Stainskip my GG amount would normally allow), I'll try to give a first opinion on the civ balance-wise.

    First and foremost, what I like about this civ is that is has, beneath the apparent simplicity of a large part of its kit, a big amount of innovative concepts (aside from the obvious resource requirement for the UI) :
    • This is the first civ in VP to have both its UUs require strategic resources (Japan doesn't count, since the second UU comes during the very late game, while here the two exist simultaneously)
    • This is one of the only civs in VP to have both UUs with almost no base CS modification (which usually takes a bonus slot design-wise), and so in exchange powerful promotions that are not lost on upgrade. Because of this, the civ has a smaller but very long power spike beginning the Classical era.
    • Each of the UCs of the civ are long-term bonus that scales with you throughout the game : the UI gains a lot of yields through techs, the UB gives more and more yields when you increases your Unit Supply cap, and as I said the promotions of the UUs aren't that impressive at first sight but provide a strong base for very powerful units later
    • This warmonger civ is tailor-made to bring down developped civs by using their infrastructure (roads, pillage) and gaining more yields when conquering big cities.
    All of that said, there are some problems in practice :
    • The road bonus of the Foederati promotion is, in the end, far less powerful than one could imagine, simply because the AI nowadays knows well how to surround and destroy any out-of-place unit, and so what was a very strong bonus in base Civ V is here a lot less usefull, even more when the kit tends to emphasize big unit lines where the durability of the Gadraught and the ability to focus and destroy of the Groethungi Cavalry make more sense.
    • The fact that the Stainskip is available so early is actually a sort of trap for the player : until the late Classical era, the Goths don't have the military to be able to begin conquering (at least against Emperor+ difficulty), and so trying to conquer and pillage is actually quite risky (for the "Foederati" promotion doesn't give the same early edge as the "Viking" promotion of Denmark for example). Thus, quite counterintuitively, I actually advise against taking Bronze working early right now (except if you really want some Spearmen) and go more toward gold and science buildings so that you don't fall behind science-wise, since it's one big weakness of the civ's kit, until you get ready to become agressive.
    • All of these elements acknowledged, there is one more problem linked to the UUs this time : as I said above, the Goths are a civ whose two UUs require strategic resources. This wouldn't be a major problem in itself if both units brought immediate power to the table, but, as I tested more and more both units, I realized that none of them had the "oompf" that at least one UU in each civ's kit has : the Gadraught is durable, but not as the same level as the Legion for example, and is the weakest Swordsman replacement I know offensively ; the Groethungi Cavalry has a lot of offensive power, but is itself quite easy to kill, especially in the type of battles its unique promotion normally favors (line vs line wars).
    => The interesting effect of all of these elements is that, to me, the Goths are a civ with all its UCs coming early on, but whose power spike comes far later, when the UCs of the Goths start truly scaling, kept unique promotions start to shine (versus the UUs of other civs, which always lose a part of their power when upgraded) and the UA gives you tangible bonus (improvements to make Foederati useful, base yields in city to make the bonus-on-conquest truly noticable). With that in mind, I imagine a lot of players will be frustrated when playing this civ, since it seems to encourage you to do early-warmongering (plus, it's the Goths, so there is a cultural bagage here telling you to conquer during the Classical era) but in the end doesn't give you a kit truly efficient in helping you that way when compared to other warmongering civs with early UCs.

    What solutions could there be ? Personally, I like the fact that the Gothic unique units don't have additionnal base CS (or weak ones in the case of the Gadraught) and the general idea of the civ's kit, but some little buffs could be made :
    • For the Gadraught, an economical bonus could be added I think to compensate for their weak stats compared to other Swordsmen UUs. Your historical description for the unit says that it was more akin to informal warbands, so making it easier to mass could be an interesting idea, maybe in exchange of the +1 base CS ?
    I'm throwing ideas on the unit card here.
    • For the Groethungi Cavalry, the fact that it is unlocked in the Medieval era unit while historically having seen its glory days in the late 4th century AD is a bit strange. It propose here that the unit become available at Metal Casting and is also a bit cheaper, in exchange of 2 or 3 base CS (the strength of the unit is base on killing strikes anyway, so having a bit less defense isn't that important).
    Example :
    • Finally, a additionnal bonus to the Foederati promotion could make it more useful early on (had an idea linked to ZOC, but that would be too similar to the Carthaginian UGP)

    These modifications wouldn't make the Gothic army more powerful in the long run, but would give it the means to be a real power during the time it is supposed to be (however, the strategic resource requirement would force you to expand early to secure these resources).
    For the idea of the Grave Goods-requiring Gadraught, a solution here could be to create a separate UU with the same stats and arts, but I think other more simple solution could be found to make the unit easier to mass.


    Spoiler Also, problem with the Stainskip visual on Toundra :

    20210218000529_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  18. Noob Fanboy

    Noob Fanboy Warlord

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    The age of empires meme is now on Vox Populi, o boi o boi
     
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  19. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    @Hinin you're making a pretty strong argument to me that I should just let the Gadraught CS float at the base Swordsman level. Let's try it. I would actually lower the production cost further, to 80 in that case though.

    swordsmen replacements are in a strange place right now because the base CS for them is Extremely High.
    The Base Swordsman CS is 17, the same CS as Pikemen, unlocked 2 techs later, and Explorer, unlocked 3 techs later

    For the life of me, I cannot explain or justify why this classical era unit, who could already 1-shot catapults at 15CS years ago, was buffed over and over.

    Nerf swordsmen, and then we can have a more productive conversation about unique swordsmen.

    Also, I'm debating removing the 1:c5faith: off the base Gulthsmitha. It's a stronger building than I had predicted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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