The Grognards

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Steph
I'd rahter have a bigger map where we could have some manoeuver warfare (city sieges were quite seldom), but with no settler for expansion : the cities would be the initial cities, it should limit lag.

That is why I wanted to limit the map to Europe so that there is a real area for the Germanic issue.
BTW I am not sure it will be possible to make one scenario for the entire period. Because of the changes of countries, special countries involved at different times (Northern Italy and Belgium for 1792 +, Egypt later on, even USA afterwards), I would be leaning towards a set of 3 mini conquests...
Any idea on that ?

That would not change much for the mod, just for scenarios but if you all prefer we will stick to one main scenario. But the USA in that case seem too marginal to make the map increase that much and as Ozymandias said, there is no way I can think about that would make a French AI lead a naval expedition towards Egypt.
I am sure someone could make a scenario including Egypt and/or the USA but if we do that we really need a very very large map otherwise the petty German states will disappear and tactical/strategical moves will be equivalent.

 

[Rocoteh]

I suggest we should go for one scenario.

The main reason: Go to completed scenarios and
check how many of them are supported are by more than
one person.
Not many!
Because of this most scenarios only "live" 5-6 weeks.
All those who have wrote at this thread are needed
for one scenario.
Let us focus!
Mini-scenarios can always be done later on.


Rocoteh

 

[Steph]

I personnally think we should focus on Europe for the main scenario, and forget Egypt and USA, keeping them for other scenarios.

However, if we need to put them in, we could try to "cheat" on the map, and put the US coast really close to Europe.

You will tell me it will make travel to fast? No... because we could make square between Europe and the US coast Ocean, and the other squares sea, and put a very high movement cost to Ocean, so it will take a long time to cross it.

Anyway, I'd prefer a big detailed map of Europe and no Egypt / USA.

Or we could have one "world" scenario with Yoda's map, and one "European" scenario with you rmap, and we could even make it a bit smaller, reducing a part in the South (we need only the point or Morroco facing Gibraltar), and to the East. Do we need lands East of Moscow?

 

[Rocoteh]

Steph,

Your solution for the U.S. coast is O.K. in my opinion.

The important thing is that I think we should start
with one scenario.
From my experience I say: A scenario needs 5-6 months
in development after launching before it can reach
high quality.
All the "grognards" and others in this thread will be '
needed. A large scenario-team from the start would
in fact be unique!

Rocoteh

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Rocoteh

All the "grognards" and others in this thread will be '
needed. A large scenario-team from the start would
in fact be unique!

"Grumblers" to the fore!

-- Marechal Groucho, uh, Grouchy, uh Ozymandias reporting for duty, Mon Empereur!

 

[Rocoteh]

Yes, that`s right


Rocoteh

 

[LouLong]

OK, map and civs settled !

Waoh !

Rocoteh, I like your "grognards" for the team name. Definitely fits in ! Simple ideas are often the best ones. Maybe we could even change the project title ?

Steph, I believe we need a bit of Russia East of Moscow. Otherwise we will not have the Don and Volga areas and Napoleon reached Moscow, meaning there needs to be some (not a lot) cities behind. Besides, although Ottomans were pretty much useless (even when at war with Napoleon), I believe we need some contact between them and the Russians in the Caucasus area.

I will try to find a map that is not compeltely flat so maybe we could take some more useless lands (like Syria,...). Another thing is that I am restricted to square maps with the Bmp to bic tool. If only I knew a good programmer somewhere...

 

[Yoda Power]

Well Lou there are other ways than bmp to bic Drewcifers NA map is a good exemple.

BTW I support the 3 scenarios idea, but I also think that a all-period scenario would be needed for those who does´nt have the patience to play them all.

I think we should rotate the map a little to get a better perspektive, we dont want to much of Russia, but we still want some land east of Moscow etc. I´ll "cut" a new map suggestion tomorrow, because I dont really like the one you presentet Lou(no offence)

 

[Rocoteh]

I support the 1 scenario idea, but if the majority
wants 3 scenarios I suggest only 1 scenario launched
with the other 2 wating until the system works.

Splitting the human resources that seems to exist
for this project is not a good idea.
Events that occur outside the CIVIII-world can reduce
a team of 7 to a team of 4 fast.

That is at least my experience from the ACW-project
when persons I thought would stay a long time suddenly
disappeared and never returned due to personal reasons.

Let us work for "sustained combat".


Rocoteh

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Rocoteh
I support the 1 scenario idea, but if the majority
wants 3 scenarios I suggest only 1 scenario launched
with the other 2 wating until the system works.

Splitting the human resources that seems to exist
for this project is not a good idea.
Events that occur outside the CIVIII-world can reduce
a team of 7 to a team of 4 fast.

That is at least my experience from the ACW-project
when persons I thought would stay a long time suddenly
disappeared and never returned due to personal reasons.

Let us work for "sustained combat".


Rocoteh

Agreed -- Come COnquests, I know I'll be splitting my Civ time probably equally between this, my own mod (an attempt to see how well Civ can be made to simulate historical forces) and research to support both efforts -- you know, like the "WTH does the AI build" thread

-Oz

 

[Rocoteh]

I also want to add from my experience with ACW:

During the last days I have worked to get a statistical
picture of the second ACW-thread with soon 1 400 replies.
I now have all the vital stats. How many have posted and
how many times and so on.
Since April 6 when the second thread was launched
(the first thread was launched in February) 11 persons
named by Procifica in the credits have ceased posting!!!!!

I mention all the above, since I again mean:
Let us focus!
All the grognards will be needed.


Rocoteh

 

[Al Zan]

show the map for the Mod,if you can.

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Rocoteh
I mention all the above, since I again mean:
Let us focus!
All the grognards will be needed.

Rocoteh

This of course implies a breakdown of tasks:

1. improvements & wonders
2. tech tree
3. map making (cartography)
4. city population / improvements and wonders per city
5. determination of what year we're starting in (surprisingly independed IMO from points 1-4 above)
6. determination of unit types / factors
7. determination of starting forces

At this point, I believe we can actually begin testing.

I'd like to take a stab at the tech tree (which of course requires views on improvements and wonders). BTW in case anyone hasn't picked up on this, I am (i) non-dogmatic: I can actually appreciate being proven incorrect in matters like tech trees (ii) certainly of the belief that the tech tree should mirror reality as closely as possible while best serving the gaming experience.

-- Thoughts, opinions, ouis, nyets, etc. mes amis?

Best,

Oz

 

[Steph]

I guess everybody knows that I won't work full time of NAPP.
But I also hope you already know I can multitask

 

[Rocoteh]

I can work with:

6)determination of of unit types / factors and/or

7)determination of starting forces

These are wide subjects and time-consuming, so at
least one person more working with this would be good.

Rocoteh

 

[LouLong]

Yep, I had made a thread with "team positions" but it was at CDG so I will make that here :

Map : when we agree on one, I guess I can do it. Normally I am kind of precise for these things. Map features and city placement. But I will need someone to check the cities pop once I have put the special resources (Ozy, sounds like a job for you, ok ?). We have to agree on pop representation.

Tech-tree : I planned on doing that with Yoda but it seems Ozy (willing) and Yoda can work on that. And we will take a look at it.
The idea Yoda had was to use the tech-tree as a timeline for events, techs happening regularly and allowing for events... OK ?

Units : StatusPerfect and me at the moment, another one would be greatly appreciated. I definitely believe different units are needed for the colourful uniforms of the time are a large cause of interest for the period.

Unit supervising : "whinning" Steph

Graphics (cities,...) : mrtn who seemed to volunteer. He has yet to confirm that. Obviously the "factory" kind of city would not fit since apart for England and a few cities in France and Western Germany at the end of the period, industrialization was far from widespread. Servage was still common in the East. We have to agree on the races.

Unit setting and testing : Rocoteh and Steph. Except for general ideas, that will need to wait for Conquests though.

Of course these are indications and everybody is pretty much needed for overall discussions. Besides I have tried to give to each person the tasks he seems good at/interested in but if you prefer something else, let me know.

I believe the grognards still need one native English speaker who could proofread, gather texts for pedia (ozy, would you be a native English speaker ?) and one person "in charge of" navies.
One unit creator (for horse units mostly) would be more than welcome. Others seem to drop by like Kryten (concept provider) or others but obviously we have the core of the grognards here. Others can enlist or remain as auxiliaries/ flanking light troops around .

You outside, you the silent viewing majority, we want YOU ! Please mention now if you are interested.

 

[Rocoteh]

"Unit setting and testing Rocoteh and Steph."LouLong

That sounds good to me.

With regard to the silent majority I agree with LouLong:
Now is the time to be a volunteer!

Rocoteh

 

[LouLong]

"Races" propositions :

- Germany : (could replace the Holy Roman Empire)
- Med : Italy, Spain and Portugal
- Muslim Med : Ottomans, barbarescs
- Western Europe : UK, France, Holland, Switzerland
- Nordic Europe : Sweden, Denmark
- Eastern world : Russia, Prussia ?

Voice your opinions !

 

[Thorgrimm]

Loulong, I would mind helping out with the orders of battle when you have the scenario start locked in. As a small token of my capability here is some rough ob's for the 1805 campaign.

Austria: In and around Ulm Archduke Mack with 46,000 infantry,14,000 cavalry.
Archduke Charles: Venice with 6,000 Guards, 64,000 infantry, 22,000 cavalry.
Archduke John: 20,000 infantry, 2,000 cavalry in Salzburg

Russia: Kutusov: Krakow with 32,000 infantry, 6,000 cavalry.
Emperor Alexander: 10,000 Guards, 22,000 infantry, 8,000 cavalry. In Brest-Litovsk.
Benningsen: Grodno with 18,000 infantry, 1,000 cavalry.

France: Davout & Soult in Mainz with 3 infantry corps with 76,000 infantry divided between the corps, and 2,000 cavalry in each corps.
1 corps with 14,000 infantry in cologne.
Napoleon,Ney, and Murat in Strasbourg with 2 infantry corps with 38,000 infantry divided between them, 2 cavalry corps with 20,000 cavalry divided between the 2 cav corps and 2,000 cav in each infantry corps.

This is only a rough o.b. done in 5 minutes and i can get very detailed. also this is only the major participants for brevity.

 

[Rocoteh]

LouLong,

With regard to "races": I think Prussia should be
removed from the Eastern world and instead be
grouped with Germany.

Rocoteh