The High Cost of Drugs and Ideology

[Berzerker]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-u-s-pays-more-than-other-countries-for-drugs-1448939481

The short version: The US pays more for drugs and effectively subsidizes other countries. Our biggest buyer of drugs is Medicare and the govt isn't allowed to negotiate drug prices while other governments, like Norway, play hard ball with pharmaceutical companies even refusing to fund certain drugs, which usually leads to a discounted price.

I dont know if private insurance here negotiates, I know they do when it comes to hospitals and doctors, etc. And big pharma is constantly polluting our airwaves with ads often for drugs that kill us even quicker. Apparently they're not allowed to run ads in Norway. Of course big pharma says these high costs fund research, no doubt.

So I was thinking about this and started wondering what ideology is in play here? I dont want to throw out any labels to describe the situation, but what would you call our system and theirs?

Frankly it matters little to me in ideological terms who negotiates drug prices, be it me (but I'd rather pay someone to do that for me ), or my insurance company (who I do pay), or local, state, or national government. But in terms of practicality my only option is walking away if I dont like a price whereas some "group" has more power to get lower prices. The bigger the group the more power.

Is this just a matter of government regulation of a capitalist system? I cant call it socialism, not even sure what that means. Even in a free market it is assumed buyer and seller haggle, thats how most of the world works, or did.

But here in the US we dont haggle much. I dont walk into Walgreen's (or Sears or Best Buy) and start trying to talk them into a lower price. Is it a free market if haggling is replaced with a compliant government and a corporate system feasting off the taxpayers and powerless individuals?

 

[BvBPL]

It's just greed. The drug companies want to be able to maximize their profits so they pay lobbyists to advocate for favorable regulations. In addition, many agency bodies hire people who have worked in the private sector being regulated (and vice versa) so there's a lot of similar thinking on regulations.

 

[warpus]

Here in Canada we have a federal body that negotiates drug prices for all of us. As far as I know, but I am not too in the know on the subject.

Anyway, if you made it into a free for all, which I think is what you have in the U.S., our drug and healthcare costs would skyrocket too, I'm sure. 30+ million people effectively all on the same side of the negotiating table can be very good for the consumer.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'm at the point where I think nationalizing the drug industry is a good idea.

 

[Narz]

Besides big food, I'd say big phrama is one of the most evil conglomerate of corporations out there.

If, when I'm in my 60's, I'm so pathetically out of condition that I need a pill to get my heartbeat right, my dick hard & my liver working properly I like to think I'd request a cyanide pill instead.

Nothing against people with genetic conditions who need medicine of course and I do my own daily doping (but with supplements I have to pay for myself) but with the intention of supporting my own physical/mental/emotional labor not as a crutch for helping the heartburn, organ damage or emotional problems that I helped create.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I'm at the point where I think nationalizing the drug industry is a good idea.

Ehhhhhhhh. The system we have isn't perfect but most new drugs get researched and made on the basis of the profit motive. Most of the smartest and most talented biochemists won't go into the drug research field if they aren't going to profit off of their work. In general I think nationalizing R&D is a bad idea. Countries that embrace such efforts have historically not exactly been on the cutting edge of technological developments.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

most new drugs get researched and made on the basis of the profit motive.

Yeah, the me-too drugs. Tell Big Pharma we don't need more of those.

 

[Zkribbler]

Ehhhhhhhh. The system we have isn't perfect but most new drugs get researched and made on the basis of the profit motive. Most of the smartest and most talented biochemists won't go into the drug research field if they aren't going to profit off of their work. In general I think nationalizing R&D is a bad idea. Countries that embrace such efforts have historically not exactly been on the cutting edge of technological developments.

This statesmen would be more persuasive is drug companies were focused on paying their biochemists. However, drug companies make an average annual profit of 18%, with Pfizer pulling in 42% in 2013. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28212223

 

[Berzerker]

Besides big food, I'd say big phrama is one of the most evil conglomerate of corporations out there.

they make us sick and then sell us the medicine to make us sicker

If, when I'm in my 60's, I'm so pathetically out of condition that I need a pill to get my heartbeat right, my dick hard & my liver working properly I like to think I'd request a cyanide pill instead.

Nothing against people with genetic conditions who need medicine of course and I do my own daily doping (but with supplements I have to pay for myself) but with the intention of supporting my own physical/mental/emotional labor not as a crutch for helping the heartburn, organ damage or emotional problems that I helped create.

I have acid reflux, probably gerd cuz I feel heartburn every day. Doc prescribed prilosec or some proton pump inhibitor, cant remember. I didn't like the side effects and started using tums and pepto.

I recently tried otc Nexium, got a sore throat but it seemed to ease the burn and I could handle it. I stopped 5-6 into the 14 day treatment after reading up on heartburn and how reducing stomach acid was a bad idea. So I'm off all antacids now.

I got reflux by eating big dinners and laying down in bed and it happened within 2-3 months. I know this because my living arrangement changed and it was the change that led to this problem. I've been living with this almost 2 years.

Reading up on a theory reflux is actually caused by too little stomach acid and taking antacids just makes it worse, food doesn't digest properly and gas builds up and acid gets into the esophagus. When it comes to heartburn gravity is your friend. A little common sense doesn't hurt either

 

[warpus]

Try Tantac/Zantac, it's worked very well for me in the past and works differently than an antacid. Over the counter too.

Zantac is the expensive name of the drug, Tantac is the cheap generic version (that I haven't been able to find, so maybe it's been discontinued)

 

[Berzerker]

I used it a few years ago when I had a rare bout with heartburn and it worked, but I started getting side effects with more than 3-4 days use.

I've decided I'll just change some bad habits that led to my problem. No more big meals before lying down flat on a bed, smaller meals but more of them. Cut down on the alcohol too

 

[BvBPL]

I have acid reflux, probably gerd cuz I feel heartburn every day. Doc prescribed prilosec or some proton pump inhibitor, cant remember.

I think your complaint should be that your physician suggested drugs instead of lifestyle changes first.

 

[Daw]

Nexium

Tantac/Zantac

Aren't those systemic drugs that inhibit overall acid secretion?

I feel your pain and have that heartburn problem too, every once in a while. Rennie is my friend. It is basically flavored chalk powder or something else that chemically neutralizes the acid that has already been produced to burn. So you have that mint every time you overdo it with fatty food and soda and get your acid where you don't want it to be, and that backs it to normal without screwing your secretion, which continues as always. No side effects unless you're allergic to menthol. No need for any course or schedule or other discipline.

Of course big pharma says these high costs fund research, no doubt.

Yeah, they always do. But in fact the proper research costs a quite a few fortunes of money, indeed.

No surprise they want it back before generics are allowed to come around, so the price is somewhere in stratosphere and the ads are everywhere including your tea-kettle whistling them.

 

[Zkribbler]

I used to have acid reflux. Genusil were my go to anti-acids. My doctor told me that would provide only a short-term fix and prescribed pantoprozole. I would not have taken them if I'd realized that they were a proton pump inhibitor; I'd had bad results from them before. But Pantoprozole did the trick. When I started off them, the acid reflux came back, so I went back on them for a few more months.

Now, I'm acid reflux free. I eat pepperoni pizza, Mexican food with tobacco sauce, etc. with almost no problem. Maybe once or twice a month I get a little zap; that's down from throbbing pain several times a day.

 

[bhavv]

they make us sick and then sell us the medicine to make us sicker



I have acid reflux, probably gerd cuz I feel heartburn every day. Doc prescribed prilosec or some proton pump inhibitor, cant remember. I didn't like the side effects and started using tums and pepto.

I recently tried otc Nexium, got a sore throat but it seemed to ease the burn and I could handle it. I stopped 5-6 into the 14 day treatment after reading up on heartburn and how reducing stomach acid was a bad idea. So I'm off all antacids now.

I got reflux by eating big dinners and laying down in bed and it happened within 2-3 months. I know this because my living arrangement changed and it was the change that led to this problem. I've been living with this almost 2 years.

Reading up on a theory reflux is actually caused by too little stomach acid and taking antacids just makes it worse, food doesn't digest properly and gas builds up and acid gets into the esophagus. When it comes to heartburn gravity is your friend. A little common sense doesn't hurt either

That seems overkill. Gaviscon should work fine for acid reflux. I had intolerable pain and acid shooting into my nose before I started taking Gaviscon.

Also reduce your lactose intake if you havnt already. Intolerance to lactose increases with age, and can be a major trigger for acid reflux and IBS symptoms.

 

[Daw]

Aren't we turning into those miserable old stumps on a park bench discussing how their farts go?