The Historical Basis for Catalonian Independence

[JohannaK]

It depends on the extent of the territories seceded. The most likely option is that only Catalonia will secede, and you would call it Catalonia. Maybe at a later date other territories would seek their own way out of Spain and into the fold of the True Catalans...

 

[Arwon]

There's also the not-trivial point that Catalonia already exists, it just isn't independent.

 

[TheLastOne36]

So just to make sure.... if Catalan speaking regions achieved independence as a unified Catalan speaking country, they would not call themselves Catalonia?

The differences between Catalonians, Valencians and Balear can't really be that great, could it? This seems worse than the Balkans.

 

[JohannaK]

No. I mean, the only difference is, aside of spacial localisation, the time each place was under the moors. And for Menorca, the years it passed under English or French rule.

 

[Dachs]

No. I mean, the only difference is, aside of spacial localisation, the time each place was under the moors. And for Menorca, the years it passed under English or French rule.

"Spatial localization" is just a fancy way of saying "these are different places with not that much in common that they don't also have in common with the rest of Spain".

 

[JohannaK]

Spacial localisation means "these places dont overlap on a map"

 

[Dachs]

Which I covered with the "different places" part at the beginning. The rest of it was Catalan-specific.

 

[JohannaK]

Indeed, but what I mean is that the term says only that, thus that the rest of it is not necessarily correct, and in fact ignores more than two centuries of the history of Valencia and the Balears entirely.

 

[Arwon]

I'll be honest, I've yet to hear a compelling argument that Asturias and Andalucia have more in common and are more naturally the same country and people than Asturias and Valencia are.

 

[JohannaK]

Valencians speak Catalan. Most of them.

 

[Arwon]

And? See now you have to convince me that closely-related languages from different points of the same dialect continuum are a fundamental point of difference.

Afterall, speakers of Mandarin, Wu, Hakka and Yue all call themselves Chinese...

 

[JohannaK]

I don't see how that's relevant.

 

[Arwon]

Language doesn't automatically define an important difference

 

[JohannaK]

But it certainly defines a difference. On top of the fact that Catalonia and Valencia have centuries of common history as parts of the Crown of Aragon prior to the PU with Castille, which was the one and only part of the Kingdom of Castille until then.

But the only true difference is the people. History, language, reasons are ultimately irrelevant. What the people wants, it should have. I was going to say it will have, but we all know there are ways to stop that.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

What about a proposed Catalan homeland

 

[Arwon]

But the only true difference is the people. History, language, reasons are ultimately irrelevant.

That is rather my point. And Valencian self-identification is pretty strongly aligned with Spain. I can see why they find Catalan nationalist wishful thinking on the matter rather presumptive and annoying.

 

[JohannaK]

Of course. Me too. Which is why I ... oh well yes, I am constantly blinded by my own condition. bias is inevitable in me, as good as my will is to be respectful.

 

[Angst]

Currently studying musical anthropology.

Half of it covers how really really weird nationalistic behavior is.

 

[W|M]

What about a proposed Catalan homeland

That's too close to Castille, put them on Madagascar instead.

 

[JohannaK]

Nationalism is a matter of individual feeling, of self-idemtification, and no man is exempt from it. Those who are comforted in their feelings seem to even forget them, it seems, and many mock those who struggle to have their identities accomodated.