The Huns for BtS

[GOBLES]

I just saw Ekmek's Attila and I can't wait to get the new changes.

 

[cool3a2]

Good news: I almost finished this mod. I think I can upload it tomorow. Last thing to do are civilopedia entries and sounds. All I'll need is help with translations / foreign language versions. You'll see when you take a look at the finished version tomorow...

However, I am quite sure that Wolfshanze won't like the mod... Yes, the UU is a horsearcher unit, but I think I gave it some strong and unique properties. Hope the unit is not overrated. UB is a cheaper stable that gives 3 experiences (more then the standart stable, but less then the mongolian). It uses the graphics of the mongolian UB and I called it hunnic stable.
Last thing to mention is, that I spend some time on Ekmeks LH. I changed the background and the light to make Attila less devilish. You'll see...

EDIT: Vanilla version is almost finished as well and warlords' is planned.

 

[Ekmek]

so where is it?

 

[strategyonly]

OK its past the tomorrow now?? LOL I need it for my new mod, if thats ok, thx.

 

[cool3a2]

Yeah, I said yesterday... All civilopedia entries are ready, everything works fine - except the units sounds. You can find the complete description of my problem here. Unfortunately nobody gave me a hint how to fix this. Since I don't want to upload the mod without the unit sounds I can't say when it is finished. All I can give you are some screenshots. But now I am hungry, so wait an hour.

EDIT: I forgot to download the new leader properties posted in this thread (by fiebras?) and link is already dead. For the moment Attila has the same properties as in my first version of this mod. If anyone has a copy of the new properties, please post it again.
EDIT2: First post is updated with some stats about leader, UU and UB.
EDIT3: Another update to the first post: pictures are up now.

 

[kivanc]

UU: Tarkan (replaces horsearcher)

Strength: 6
Movement: 3
Cost: 50
1 First Strike
Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
Ignores terrain movement costs
Can withdraw from combat (20% chance)
+50% attack vs. catapult
+50% attack vs. trebuchet
flank attack against catapult and trebuchet
starts with shock, march and blitz

why don't you just move down 1 level instead of playing with this UU. you could also make Attila Imp/Cha or Agg/Cha instead of such an unbalanced UU.

 

[cool3a2]

Well, I thought on changing Attilas traits, but since I have bigger problems with this mod then this, I didn't spent much time on it. However, the traits you are suggesting are interesting. But what do you mean with "unbalanced"? Sorry, I can't imagine how a unit can be unbalanced... I wanted a unit that is fast in movement and conquer, is good in close combat and has a minimum of losses. Maybe it is too strong, I've mentioned that some posts above. To be honest: I haven't played that civ yet because I am searching for the cause of that bug I mentioned. However, it would be more of help if you would make suggestions instead of only critize the unit. For example you could suggest to make the unit somewhat cheap instead of very strong. I thought on that as well. Huns would then have an impressive army of horsearcher. That would be possible...

Sorry, if this sounds somewhat harsh, but I am frustated a bit with that bug. I am searching for the reason since two days...

 

[Wolfshanze]

Some UUs have one extra movement point (Musketeer) and that's their only bonus...

Some UUs have one good promotion or two weak promotions (Navy Seal, March or Oromo Warrior, Drill-1 & Drill-2 respectively) and call it a UU.

You gave this unit the equivalent of THREE (or more) UU's bonuses... +1 movement, two strong and one weak promotion... that's rolling three and a half UU's combined into one.

Why not just rename the unit "Superman" or something?

Seriously... compared to other UU's, that's way overpowered... it's supposed to be a small, minor improvement over the default, not an end-all, be-all one man wrecking crew. Panzers don't even have a default movement of three plus Blitz... Blitz isn't even around until the early industrial age, and you're giving an ancient unit three movement points (unheard of until modern times) the blitz and march (plus shock)... simply too much.

 

[cool3a2]

Man, Wolfshanze, I already said it is maybe too strong TWO times. But seriously: I have bigger problems then the UU. Have you noticed? There is no download link at all (besides of the old one if I haven't deleted it). So if camarilla doesn't like the UU, it's okay; I just said he should have make suggestions instead of only critizising. I never said this unit is a dogma.

 

[cool3a2]

First of all I have to apologize for the following thing: I have accidently based the UU's stats on the Keshiks stats, this was never planned. I have corrected this now. Furthermore I have thought on the UU and this is my new suggestion:
- strength: 6
- movement: 2 (edited)
- cost: 40
- Immune to first strikes
- Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
- can withdraw from combat (20% chance)
- +50% attack vs. catapult
- flank attack against catapult, trebuchet
- starts with shock

Let me explain this a little. I decided for shock because Huns used parthian shot. This tactic allowed them to bring enemy unmounted units in disorder and thus made them an easier target. I decreased the cost of that unit, because horse archers were almost the only unit Huns used and I want to reach that the AI produces a lot of horse archers as well. I increased the movement, because without it the UU would have no advantages against other mounted units and it seemed to be to weak this way.
So, what do you think?

I also thought on the traits camarilla suggested for Attila. The problem is, that Cha conflicts with vanilla (there was no Cha). I also took a look what advantages Cha would bring. It would mainly increase moral, which doesn't fit to Attila. At least I don't know about that Huns were happier when he was the leader then in other times. When I thought this would be a good idea, I thought this would influence foreign politics somehow. This would have fit, because Attila had a talent for negotiations, I think.

EDIT: Or we could decrease movement to 2 (I have recognized that even tanks have only 2 [I think this is really underrated...])

 

[cool3a2]

Okay, mod is up. See first post for download link. We can still discuss on the UU. I would post an update if necessary.

Strategyonly offered me further unique unit graphics, but they are asian style. I'd like to use eurasian style graphics, feel free to make suggestions.

I will also post this in the hungarian forum, maybe they have more ideas about problematic stuff.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Man, Wolfshanze, I already said it is maybe too strong TWO times. But seriously: I have bigger problems then the UU. Have you noticed? There is no download link at all (besides of the old one if I haven't deleted it). So if camarilla doesn't like the UU, it's okay; I just said he should have make suggestions instead of only critizising. I never said this unit is a dogma.

No problem... UU's is something I always tweak anyways, but I just thought I'd point out some other examples of UU's... I try and consider other UU's when making/altering my own...

Press on.

 

[Ekmek]

DL isnt working for me

 

[cool3a2]

No problem... UU's is something I always tweak anyways, but I just thought I'd point out some other examples of UU's... I try and consider other UU's when making/altering my own...

Okay, no problem. I was a bit frustated because of that bug, so maybe I was a bit too harsh.

DL isnt working for me

Really? Hmm... You are the first one that has problems with adrive. I don't know... I could try another server, but I don't really want to. Could you please describe your problem a bit more detailed?

In the hungarian forum they told me they know tarkan as a military rank, not a unit. I only copied that name from this thread without checking this. I will check this now, maybe we have to find a different name.

 

[kivanc]

However, it would be more of help if you would make suggestions instead of only critize the unit. For example you could suggest to make the unit somewhat cheap instead of very strong. I thought on that as well. Huns would then have an impressive army of horsearcher. That would be possible...

sorry, if i've been rude. but it was a reaction not for this one but also for most mods people create
anyway, to be more of help i can say wolfhanze replied just like i shoudl in post 68. so yes i agree it's a superman.
so much boosting of a unit was really unfair.
*it moves 3 (weird and unfair)
*it has march and blitz (these are promotions which are hard to achieve and you give them free??)

if you used even only one of these 3, the unit would still be overpowered and these 3 together is unfair, plus there is also shock.
anyway, let's talk about CHA trait little. i see you are getting CHA trait just with its happy cap. the main adv of this trait is -25% XP for promot. happy cap is the second feature for me.

and let's critice your new UU a bit. your new UU is weak IMO. i know HUNS are horseman guys but i find horse archer UUs weak. bec i don't like the idea of having archery and HBR techs early. so i will try to focus on a different kind of UU.

here are different ideas from me for HUNS:

UU :tarkan (replaces axeman)
property: free city raider 1 promotion (plus normal axeman)

i think this is a very strong unit and also it is not overpowered.

UB: shaman house (replaces courthouse)
property: +1 free priest (plus normal courthose)

HUNS: start with the wheel and mining
And Attila traits: CRE/CHA (this combo is not in BTS, so that's why i chose it. ORG/CHA came into my mind first but it could make Attila overpowered, so that's why CRE/CHA is better)

i believe this combo would have great synergy. early rushing, warmongering and SE is encouraged

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Attila is CRE/CHA? WTH?

 

[Kabcsi]

i think one of Attila's traits MUST BE Aggressive! The other one can be discussed, but I think this one is undisputable...
My second pick would be Charismatic...

 

[cool3a2]

Attila is CRE/CHA? WTH?

Well, I think this wouldn't really fit as well. I agree with Kabcsi on the traits. On the other hand people in the western usually think Huns were barbarians. This isn't true either, it's more roman propaganda then reality. Sure, they often were in war, but you can say the same about the Romans. So what I want to say is: please don't use phrases like "WTH" when we talk about this, okay?

Your idea for the UB is interesting, but I am not sure if religion was that important for the Huns. All I have read about the Huns that had something to do with religion, was that Attila was maybe a christian king (believe it or not). I also don't find priests that important in civ4, maybe I have a different style of playing it than you? Where did you get this idea for the UB? Can you serve with a source?

I also thought that mystisicm isn't a good start technology, but your suggestions seem to be very strong (especially mining). On the other hand I can't see how the Huns get their food if not by hunting. Huns were nomads, even when they settled down in europe, they haven't started agriculture or fishing AFAIK. The only way to get food would be raids, but that isn't enough for an empire. So what I want to tell you, is giving them hunting as starting tech. I also don't see what Huns have to do with wheels, but this may be due to may leck of knowledge.

According to the sources I have read, Huns didn't really used other units than horsebased ones. If this is true (well, that isn't necessarily the case, because I made the experience that german sources about Huns are poor; however, I can't serve with a source unless you speak / can read german...), then the UU has to be a horse based one. On the other hand, Huns had a great empire. They needed fast troops and they have simply overrun the Balkan. For these things nothing else then mounted units were needed.
When I play civ4 (always with Hungary), I used to research horsearchers early. That's not a problem. Other civilizations get their UU much later. But you may be right when you say the UU is weak at the moment.

 

[Kabcsi]

I also think that Huns need a horse-related UU...

 

[cool3a2]

I have uploaded the mod to a second server for people that have problems with adrive. Simply use download link 2 from the first post.