The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

The AI is a moron when it comes to the Space Race (which I really hope is fixed in BtS) - here are my suggestions (not that they're any better than anyone elses - I still consider myself quite the n00b compared to most of you):

It's often enough to just have more cities - not necessarily more production cities. Even a crap city building a casing starting 10 turns before you even have the tech for the engine is going to do the job well for you. You have more cities that Peter - so take advantage of that.

Gold + spies = flustered moron AI. Peter, having so few cities, will inevitably start building thrusters (or some other expensive part) in a pretty crappy production city. A sabotage every few turns can prevent that part from ever being built - though you'll need the coin to be able to make that happen. Peter's massive tech lead means *nothing* if you can prevent him from building one of the thrusters. It's cheapest to you if you do the preventing in the worst production city he has.

The Internet would be nice, but I've often found you can research the techs you need in the time it would take to build the stupid thing. I've found it's mostly good for getting non-spaceship related techs.... which I just don't need to win the game.

The Space Elevator is really only good for preventing the AI from getting it. If you can double-GE it, it's totally worth it - but there is zero reason to build it from scratch. By the time you get it, you should have all of your spaceship parts mostly built anyway.

Three Gorges Damn is also pointless - you can have coal plants in your cities long before you'd ever build the thing, and the idiot AI will build it after he's already spent the hammers on some sort of power in the majority of his cities anyway.

My strategy? Build the best seige units (and some mop-up) you can in every city you have until such time as a spaceship part becomes available, then, of course, build that. This is for, of course, if the AI attacks you, you can repel the abyssmal excuse for an amphibious invasion he'll send.

Laboratories are an excellent build choice once you have Computers, but have cities waiting to build other ship parts.

Get spies over to Peter's land as fast as possible and mess with his poorly laid plans. Don't sabotage all over the place, and don't waste your spies. You don't need to stop any more than one part from being built.

With the land at your disposal, a Space Race victory really should end up being trivial. Trade for techs you need if you can, but otherwise beeline to your spaceship techs, build the parts, prevent him from building one of his, and post the victory.

Caveat: this game is at a higher difficulty than I play, so maybe I'm just completely full of crap - but other Immortal+ players can confirm or deny that as they see fit.
 
It was bad because you weren't prepared for it.

The whole idea of declaring war on Peter is to make sure he spends more hammers than you. I suggest a naval patrol with caravels, and a stack of redcoats that can move to wherever he decides to land. Remember he has less cities than you, is engaged in war with Brennus, and spent a lot of hammers building transports and tanks. Something has to give.

12 tanks and 4 transports = 2300 hammers, and by that time you'd have (protective) machine guns. 12 tanks breaking through 10 machine guns, worth 1250 hammers, with cultural bonus and drill? I don't think so.

If you don't want to risk that, consider building up a couple small stacks of destroyers, and blow up all his offshore platforms, while blowing up his land-based wells with spies. Modern warfare without oil?! Very funny.
 
I think going for the internet makes a lot of sense. The beeline--if you punch up fiber optics is 6 techs--radio, comp, art, rocket,sat, then fiber optics.
Rushing to comp is always a good idea in a space race, you need the labs anyway and the sooner the better for research.

You may be able to trade for art by then.

I always find that the bottleneck in a large empire space race is the final few parts, I usually go to fusion then the space elevator tech then genetics and finish with ecology since the part is so cheap.

If you can build the internet you will get plastics, railroad, refrigeration, and industrialization I think for sure. It's also possible you will be able to trade for railroad by then. I'd production optimize your IW city so you get internet as fast as possible.

You also want to build scotland yard when you get communism (trade or int of course). The only part that makes sense IMHO to sabotage is the final one. Best is to sabotage improvements--the AI is terrible at replacing them.
Sabotaging the part itself is a last resort and hopefully will not be needed.

The AI is really weak at this part of the game and you have a large empire coming in to it's own. If you weren't down several techs the game would be over now.

I would not try for war--if you do I think the only way that has a chance involves a stack of nukes and him not building SDI (although the AI does like to build bunkers).
 
In a recent game on emperor i was in a similar situation, although a major difference was that there were 2 AIs up into the tech tree. (Although an immortal Monty may compensate for that). I ran the beeline in ungy's post, and then went Fission, Fusion. By Fusion I got the Internet and it got me Industrialization, Plastics, Robotics, Composites and all the backfill techs. Ironworks built the Space Elevator (and then Finished Apollo) and then I started the space race with Ironworks building the Engine. I had to research Refridgeration for Genetics, Ecology (and Fission/Fusion) on my own, and no city built two parts. The lag ended up being the Docking Bay (the Robotics part) in my #2 production city, the capital.

Looking back, this is what I would have done differently. The Docking Bay is actually the most expensive part, Ironworks should have built that. And I should have built Apollo sooner for prod cities 2-4 to get their parts done (I actually started it in #2, but by the time Ironworks was done with its chores it was faster for Ironworks just to build it). I also did no terrain changes (no towns to workshops and watermills).

Looking at the save, Magyar is sizing up to be your #2 production city, except it needs some changes. Approaching its health limit and at +14 growth, I wouldn't let it grow another pop (I ran Enviormentalism, but you could probably do without, although you will need coal plants) and surround it with workshops. And then build the Apollo there while Ravenna is doing its thing. London may need some conversions too, but maybe after techs are done.

I'd also recommed getting spies going for reconnaissance and to pillage Aluminum, and if needed they can do more.

But given the AI's stupidity to run a space race, I think your in good shape to win this.
 
It was bad because you weren't prepared for it.

Well, we aren't prepared for it and won't be anytime soon. I think the best bet is still to go with the Internet beeline first. Then we can talk about some other gambit.
 
Hey aelf, think you could do Stalin for the next immortal challenge?
 
I'd also recommed getting spies going for reconnaissance and to pillage Aluminum, and if needed they can do more.
Well you need communism and scotland yard for that. I wouldn't bother pillaging until near the end--that will be the bottleneck for Peter and why waste the $ earlier. At the end you pillage the resource as well as any mines/lumbermills/workshops. Be careful pillaging farms--if the city starves the ai will allocate max specs for production which can give a nasty surprise.
So you need I think all 4 spies over there but no hurry.
 
What? Come on, guys. All of you advocating war, especially against Peter - are you serious? :eek:

Well the war is the safiest win in your case IMO. I have few wins on immortal and the late wars are very challanging. Few thoughs on the plan: make some boats , go to peter and on the first turn you must get his best coastal cites and raze them. If you manage to raze all of his coastal cities you will be fully save from invasion. One more thing make few spies to blow his parts or bumb the aluminium source ;)
 
As you point out, the AI will throw some tanks at you even though it is in a war with Brennus. However, you have to take a chance on that. You have to slow down Peter's march to space. We know war will do that.

Morgrad suggested building defensive seige units and other defensive units to counter any invasion by Peter. I am not sure where you are in the tech tree with regard to railroads, but certainly they would help with the defense. Why not adopt that strategy by building those units in several cities. Then use your other cities to concentrate on research to go for the space race victory, either by Internet or not?
 
The whole idea of declaring war on Peter is to make sure he spends more hammers than you.
Actually the point of not declaring war is that the AI builds a mess of units anyway and Aelf can build assembly plants, labs, other infra.

Peter will not be delayed in launching his ship by lack of hammers--it will be the tech for the last part. Aelf on the other hand, can ill afford to lose his seafood and needs to spend every available hammer building infra and research.
 
As you point out, the AI will throw some tanks at you even though it is in a war with Brennus. However, you have to take a chance on that. You have to slow down Peter's march to space. We know war will do that.
Peter can surely get peace with Brennus whenever he wants and likely will do so if Aelf attacks him.
 
get in for a peice of brennus pie! You would get diplomacy bonuses with peteer ( always nice) and could gain a foothold on the enemy continent, would give you more population to so you might be able to persue a diplomatic victory :)
 
Hi guys. First to say I have learned a lot reading this thread. Thanks aelf.

My strat would be like this:

- Concentrate on economy, tech like mad.
- Send spies there and watch Peter.
- Sabotage his SS production with spies.
- Don't waste time on buiding defenses. With sheer numbers of units you can destroy any incoming invasion from AI.

The trick would be finding right balance between science and taxes. Sabotaging will cost quite a bit.
 
I'd like to sign under all three recent posts of ungy.
Anybody saying "distract Peter by attacking him - it'll make him build more units" has either not seen his powergraph or is just raving mad. (No offense)

If I remember correctly, aelf has no Railroads, no Oil-powered Navy and has Redcoats as top defenders. Now, imagine an invasion fleet of four or three galleons, full of tanks bent on pillaging, landing at an inconvenient spot... And I have little doubt that Peter could muster these tanks.

Remember, he IS ALREADY at war. If we declare, he will just turn his rage to us and sign peace with Brennus. Little benefit I can see here.

Good luck, aelf!
 
I'd like to sign under all three recent posts of ungy.
Anybody saying "distract Peter by attacking him - it'll make him build more units" has either not seen his powergraph or is just raving mad. (No offense)

If I remember correctly, aelf has no Railroads, no Oil-powered Navy and has Redcoats as top defenders. Now, imagine an invasion fleet of four or three galleons, full of tanks bent on pillaging, landing at an inconvenient spot... And I have little doubt that Peter could muster these tanks.

Remember, he IS ALREADY at war. If we declare, he will just turn his rage to us and sign peace with Brennus. Little benefit I can see here.

Good luck, aelf!

Few tips for AI on war:
- The AI trow most of his "free" units on the front.
- The AI keep only 2-3 units for garnison in the back cities.
- The AI mostly keep all his transport ships in one coastal city which is commonly defended by 2-3 land units as i mentioned.
- If the AI didn't progress in war agains other AI that means his "free" units are not so many at all.
- The power graph care how big are the AI cities not only his real army.

Conclusion: Peter has big cities, Peter advance slow agains Brenus, Peter is in war already for some turns => His back coastal cities are lightly defended. It could be possible to sink all his galleons after only 1 city is raized and even if he managed to make 1-2 transports it wont be much trouble.If Novgorod, Yekaterininburg and Rostov are razed that surely will slow Peter research.
 
This is true, just make a single caravel and send it to Peter's cities and find out where his naval SoD is and monitor it, while he's at peace with you. If he is going to launch a surprise attack you will see the stack sail and be able to prepare some sort of defence.

Capturing this city with most of his ships in it, is another possibility later on, if you decide to attack Peter as a distraction from the space race. As others have said this city is often lightly defended, quite out of proportion to the ships inside. If you have a big enough navy to reduce the defences near to zero in one turn and enough troops to take out the defenders with an amphibious assault (expensive without marines but still possible) you could wipe out all his galleon and transports in one fell swoop. It would be aelf's version of Pearl Harbour ;)
 
Now I'm just a noob who wins about 35% of my games on warlord:(
but the only way for you to win is the space race...There's no possible way to take Peter on with the Military you have...and where would you attack from. You don't have Open borders if anyone on that continent.




_____________
I hope you enjoyed my noobish statements:spank:
 
Hey, guys. I won't keep it from you. I have decided not to play Civ ever again. You see, some stuff happened in my life...

Spoiler :
:joke:

But I will be away for a week, so I won't be able to play and post the next round till I get back next Thursday. See ya then! :)
 
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