don't go after Bismark until JC is half dead. now JC has the power to fight back. if u really don't want to attack the capital in fear of heavy defend, i will choose site B. once Revanna is razed, settle the city immeditely, AI usually have spear settlers waiting around. Be prepare for fighting with both of them at the same time later, the continent is small, u need every bit of land to win and don't vessel JC, his cities are all very good.
The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
aelf
Ashen One
You can't compare it like that. As it is, we're commited to fighting Rome, and for good reasons. Taking the capital is always a key objective in any campaign. As long as civ retains its original capital, that civ is usually still a viable force. Now that we're knee deep in the struggle against Rome, the Roman capital is the most natural objective, not the German capital, which is not nearby anyway. The distance only adds to why we shouldn't go for it yet, the other being the imprudence of making two enemies at the same time before one is practically defeated.
Melior Traiano said:
Actually, Bismark's land is kind of poor. The only thing he's got is his collection of wonders, which will obsolete one not-so-distant day. And isn't it better that we continue attacking a weakened (but still viable) Rome now and consolidate our empire before taking on the relatively stronger Germans than try to bite more than we can munch? This is Epic, so falling behind in tech due to war isn't such a big problem. Also, the war against Germany would probably coincide nicely with the advent of the Redcoats.
You can't assume that Bismark will come to Caesar's aid, which I think is quite unlikely at the moment.
Yeah, I must admit I'm confused by the suggestions of attacking Bismark. It'd be one thing to do so if the Romans were beaten, or at least neutralized. But right now they are still a very viable threat, and they don't particularly like us. Until they are no longer an immediate threat, I don't see how we could try and take on another enemy. It would openly invite dogpiling, and while the AI isn't great at wars, getting attacked by 2 AIs on Immortal would likely be game over.
Bh
Bh
"You can't assume that Bismark will come to Caesar's aid, which I think is quite unlikely at the moment."
"getting attacked by 2 AIs on Immortal would likely be game over."
to avoid that, take the roman capital next with reinforce of catapults and wipe out Pisea and Cumea so that your threat is mainly from the north. It wont be that bad if the German either vessels the roman or the German dog piles you, otherwise your war front is too long and your units have to travel half continent from south to north. u still want some catapults to assist taking Revanna, send some scouts (one elephant and one axeman) to Rome before making decision. if there are 4-5 longbows, i considered it worth a try.
"getting attacked by 2 AIs on Immortal would likely be game over."
to avoid that, take the roman capital next with reinforce of catapults and wipe out Pisea and Cumea so that your threat is mainly from the north. It wont be that bad if the German either vessels the roman or the German dog piles you, otherwise your war front is too long and your units have to travel half continent from south to north. u still want some catapults to assist taking Revanna, send some scouts (one elephant and one axeman) to Rome before making decision. if there are 4-5 longbows, i considered it worth a try.
I think the goal is winning the game not getting someone else's wonders quickly.
I don't know how/why the focus shifted so much towards attacking Germany when the war with Rome just got underway.
smartus
Chieftain
I assume that the other continet will be more technically developed than yours - it always happens in my games, the 4 AI continent is much more advanced than 2 AI + me. So I think you will need a trading partner on your continent to make good trades. And you won't be able to trade with Bismarck if you attack him (am I right?).
I would seek total destruction of Rome now. My next step would probably be the city of Rome. Unfortunately it is on the hill, but I think it can be conquered with the army you have. After conquering Rome I would offer peace, build more units and conquer the rest.
I would seek total destruction of Rome now. My next step would probably be the city of Rome. Unfortunately it is on the hill, but I think it can be conquered with the army you have. After conquering Rome I would offer peace, build more units and conquer the rest.
flamingzaroc121
Emperor
if you completely take out Rome, bismark wont trade because the AI only trades if two ppeole know the tech
aelf
Ashen One
Of course we won't take out Rome completely this time. At some point, it might be better to vassalize Caesar anyway.
Anyway, I'll be gone for two days, so I won't be able to play yet.
Anyway, I'll be gone for two days, so I won't be able to play yet.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
Well, I hope you're right, but I have the feeling Caesar will capitulate to Bismarck before he would to you. I fear also that like half of Caesar's army is holed up in Rome, because it's the HE city. And I think that a weakened Caesar + a weakened Bismarck is a much better position to be in than a non-factor Caesar + a strong Bismarck. No point in repeating myself further, so I will simply agree to disagree on this one. 
You're right though that playing on Epic gives you some leeway. I forgot this one was on Epic.
You're right though that playing on Epic gives you some leeway. I forgot this one was on Epic.
Morgrad
Attack Rodent
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 367
Take Rome and make sure he's a non-competitor, then extort techs for peace. Consolidate, get the economy happy (while building a huge pile of more seige units), then either beat Rome down again to extort more techs, or beat on Germany to get a nice pile of wonders and extort more techs.
Keeping both alive for tech-trading (even if it is extortion) is quite important, methinks.
You need more seige weapons (as if I'm telling you something you don't already know.....)
Keeping both alive for tech-trading (even if it is extortion) is quite important, methinks.
You need more seige weapons (as if I'm telling you something you don't already know.....)
You must take Ceasar cities to the north because they are more valuable for your civ development. Rome can whait because you will loose at least 2/3 of your army if attack it.
And for Biskmark - it doesn't matter is he strong , the point is just to be stronger
And for Biskmark - it doesn't matter is he strong , the point is just to be stronger
aelf
Ashen One
Wow, you people are a pessimistic-sounding lot, aren't you? 
Anyway, why should Bismark attack us for the sake of Caesar? He's not angry with us. And, given the wonders he has built, I don't think he has an army that is raring to go out and conquer. We should expect that from the Khans or Napoleon, but why Bismark?
Then, there's the point about making two enemies at the same time, for the marginal benefit of capturing wonders that have about half their lifespan left in a city that is not easy to reach.
Good one. It encapsulates what I have in mind very well
Anyway, good news: I'm able to be home tonight and am playing the next round.
Anyway, why should Bismark attack us for the sake of Caesar? He's not angry with us. And, given the wonders he has built, I don't think he has an army that is raring to go out and conquer. We should expect that from the Khans or Napoleon, but why Bismark?
Then, there's the point about making two enemies at the same time, for the marginal benefit of capturing wonders that have about half their lifespan left in a city that is not easy to reach.
Good one. It encapsulates what I have in mind very well
Anyway, good news: I'm able to be home tonight and am playing the next round.
"You must take Ceasar cities to the north because they are more valuable for your civ development."
what does this mean? do u mean iron or something? i think those northern cities are better as a buffer zone when against Bismark. Rome and Cumae are better cities which gives a lot commerce and great people.
aelf, please do save the option of taking the capital. when your units are healing and your cities building siege weapons, send some scout units to see if the defenders in Rome are really tough.
what does this mean? do u mean iron or something? i think those northern cities are better as a buffer zone when against Bismark. Rome and Cumae are better cities which gives a lot commerce and great people.
aelf, please do save the option of taking the capital. when your units are healing and your cities building siege weapons, send some scout units to see if the defenders in Rome are really tough.
Lord Chambers
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,004
I vote that you capture Rome while massing units to attack Germany. While attacking Germany build a seperate army and put them on your Galleons to make a land grab on the other continent(s). As you restore your economy build culture so that you'll have enough land to build nukes with. After a couple tech trades bad da boom, you'll have the upper hand and be able to trade for the Manhattan project.
If you get a warlord during this merge him with your bomber for extra bombage.
If you get a warlord during this merge him with your bomber for extra bombage.
Cabledawg
Prince
I dont know where to start with the above comment...lol
Gee, what's all this talk of attacking Germany about? I think Aelf has enough on his hands as is. So far, it's been smooth sailing - but just look at the power-graph.
IMHO, the remaining key war objectives against Rome are to take control of an iron source, with minimal losses taken and maximum damage dealt to JC. I suggest taking and razing Magyar and founding a city on site A, then suing for peace. This is guaranteed to secure the iron (I have concerns about cultural pressure for site B) and it spilts whats left of the Roman Empire in two, which in my experience is a real problem for the AI in terms of deploying units.
The faster this is accomplished, the better. For one thing, JC may yet have a powerful stack of preats waiting somewhere (my bet would be Rome, which is why I am against trying to take it), for another, the real contest is against whoever is out on the other continent(s): The longer Aelf is at war, the better for them, as their tech lead from research and trade will only widen.
Lastly, I would advocate against going to war vs. Germany before contact with the other civs is made and a clearer picture of the state of play has emerged.
IMHO, the remaining key war objectives against Rome are to take control of an iron source, with minimal losses taken and maximum damage dealt to JC. I suggest taking and razing Magyar and founding a city on site A, then suing for peace. This is guaranteed to secure the iron (I have concerns about cultural pressure for site B) and it spilts whats left of the Roman Empire in two, which in my experience is a real problem for the AI in terms of deploying units.
The faster this is accomplished, the better. For one thing, JC may yet have a powerful stack of preats waiting somewhere (my bet would be Rome, which is why I am against trying to take it), for another, the real contest is against whoever is out on the other continent(s): The longer Aelf is at war, the better for them, as their tech lead from research and trade will only widen.
Lastly, I would advocate against going to war vs. Germany before contact with the other civs is made and a clearer picture of the state of play has emerged.
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