r_rolo1
King of myself
I presume that the T word isn't today .... bummers 
The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
aelf
Ashen One
[continued from the previous page]
Well, as it happened, I decided on a 4-group invasion force that would move in a line as far as possible with one reserve group following behind. I was counting on the multiple groups to confuse the AI so that it would be less likely to focus its attacks on a single group. I distributed our CR units and cannons as evenly as possible, and each group was defended by two Redcoats (one Drill veteran, the other Combat-promoted). A few cavalry would be waiting behind to reinforce injured groups. That was the most ideal arrangement I could come up with. After I had arrayed our forces by the border, the war began:
The attacks came, but Bismark did not use up his entire arsenal at once, which was a mistake. On the first turn, one group was attacked badly enough that the cannons had to defend against the German cannons. Our Combat I + CR III cannon won but our Barrage III cannon was destroyed. If he had just followed through with regular units, Bismark could have annihilated that group, but thank goodness the AI wasn't that smart. On the next turn, I combined the wounded group with another group. A few more cannons attacked, but they had no hope of destroying our groups now. Bismark had exhausted his stack at Munich:
The city was easy picking after that:
The loss of one cannon was felt, but our veteran CR grenadiers could more than make up for the lack of collateral damage. The power of Charismatic in giving the player highly-promoted troops must not be scoffed at.
While the march to Munich and its assault was taking place, Berlin came under sustained cannon fire and assault. Fortunately, we had brought a shiny new infantry to the city to defend it, so Bismark had no chance of retaking his capital.
In the sea, meanwhile, we had begun to build ironclads to destroy Bismark's frigates so he did not have an easy time pillaging our seafood and blockading our cities, even though Rome suffered inevitably as a stack of German frigates and galleons sailed to the city.
Then Monty came again (!!!):
Swear words came to my mind as I contemplated the AI's tendency to be highly annoying. Fortunately, he had forgotten an earlier request that was turned down. Still, relations became very strained.
His beloved brother came next:
What is this? Why are we getting all this attention from those two? Argh! Go away! For the last time, we aren't taking sides, alright?! Well, at least Brennus has some sympathy from me. He has been losing cities to Monty and Peter decided to dogpile him.
Then having brought another infantry to Munich, our stack left the city and attacked Bremen:
Bismark still had some cannons in reserve, which he used to attack Munich. Sorry, buddy, my infantry can beat your army anytime. Care for a cup of chai?
I stopped playing at the discovery of Biology. Here's the tech situation as it is:
We have Biology on Monty, Biology and Assembly Line on Bismark and Biology, Steam Power and Corporation on Caesar. We don't have anything on anyone else.
The power graph:
Looks like Brennus got his bottom kicked quite badly.
The GNP graph:
We still have to work on that. Hopefully, we will be able to pull Peter down by getting Brennus and Monty to DoW on him at the same time in the future. It would also teach the two of them cooperation and how to live with each other peacefully.
The map of our continent:
We'd probably be heading for Frankfurt next. Bismark is already willing to capitulate, so we might just stop there. Then we can focus solely on building up to the space race and competing with Peter. Or should we waste no more time and capitulate the German now? He has 750 gold that we might just be able to take.
The map of the other continent:
Despite having never gotten anyone's world map, our Great Merchant has done a good job exploring the place. So far Novgorod seems to be the best place to get a deal, and he should probably do so soon. By the looks of it, Brennus is in quite big trouble. Maybe we should help him a bit. Since Monty is still in WFYABTA land, maybe we could use Biology to bribe him to end the war with Brennus. He is willing to offer gold to return and we can even throw in something that would affect his relations with Peter.
Now, the question is, which should we do. We can:
What do you say? And what about Germany? At which point do we ask for their capitulation? Also, what shall we research next? Nobody seems to be willing to trade us Astronomy, and we probably need that to continue up the tech tree.
Yes, I think it's going to be a neck to neck space race with Peter, with a real risk of us losing unless we manage to distract or sabotage Peter well enough. No end to the suspense, eh?
Well, as it happened, I decided on a 4-group invasion force that would move in a line as far as possible with one reserve group following behind. I was counting on the multiple groups to confuse the AI so that it would be less likely to focus its attacks on a single group. I distributed our CR units and cannons as evenly as possible, and each group was defended by two Redcoats (one Drill veteran, the other Combat-promoted). A few cavalry would be waiting behind to reinforce injured groups. That was the most ideal arrangement I could come up with. After I had arrayed our forces by the border, the war began:
The attacks came, but Bismark did not use up his entire arsenal at once, which was a mistake. On the first turn, one group was attacked badly enough that the cannons had to defend against the German cannons. Our Combat I + CR III cannon won but our Barrage III cannon was destroyed. If he had just followed through with regular units, Bismark could have annihilated that group, but thank goodness the AI wasn't that smart. On the next turn, I combined the wounded group with another group. A few more cannons attacked, but they had no hope of destroying our groups now. Bismark had exhausted his stack at Munich:
The city was easy picking after that:
The loss of one cannon was felt, but our veteran CR grenadiers could more than make up for the lack of collateral damage. The power of Charismatic in giving the player highly-promoted troops must not be scoffed at.
While the march to Munich and its assault was taking place, Berlin came under sustained cannon fire and assault. Fortunately, we had brought a shiny new infantry to the city to defend it, so Bismark had no chance of retaking his capital.
In the sea, meanwhile, we had begun to build ironclads to destroy Bismark's frigates so he did not have an easy time pillaging our seafood and blockading our cities, even though Rome suffered inevitably as a stack of German frigates and galleons sailed to the city.
Then Monty came again (!!!):
Swear words came to my mind as I contemplated the AI's tendency to be highly annoying. Fortunately, he had forgotten an earlier request that was turned down. Still, relations became very strained.
His beloved brother came next:
What is this? Why are we getting all this attention from those two? Argh! Go away! For the last time, we aren't taking sides, alright?! Well, at least Brennus has some sympathy from me. He has been losing cities to Monty and Peter decided to dogpile him.
Then having brought another infantry to Munich, our stack left the city and attacked Bremen:
Bismark still had some cannons in reserve, which he used to attack Munich. Sorry, buddy, my infantry can beat your army anytime. Care for a cup of chai?
I stopped playing at the discovery of Biology. Here's the tech situation as it is:
We have Biology on Monty, Biology and Assembly Line on Bismark and Biology, Steam Power and Corporation on Caesar. We don't have anything on anyone else.
The power graph:
Looks like Brennus got his bottom kicked quite badly.
The GNP graph:
We still have to work on that. Hopefully, we will be able to pull Peter down by getting Brennus and Monty to DoW on him at the same time in the future. It would also teach the two of them cooperation and how to live with each other peacefully.
The map of our continent:
We'd probably be heading for Frankfurt next. Bismark is already willing to capitulate, so we might just stop there. Then we can focus solely on building up to the space race and competing with Peter. Or should we waste no more time and capitulate the German now? He has 750 gold that we might just be able to take.
The map of the other continent:
Despite having never gotten anyone's world map, our Great Merchant has done a good job exploring the place. So far Novgorod seems to be the best place to get a deal, and he should probably do so soon. By the looks of it, Brennus is in quite big trouble. Maybe we should help him a bit. Since Monty is still in WFYABTA land, maybe we could use Biology to bribe him to end the war with Brennus. He is willing to offer gold to return and we can even throw in something that would affect his relations with Peter.
Now, the question is, which should we do. We can:
- Bribe Monty to declare peace, stop trading with Peter and pay us 60 gold.
- Bribe Monty to declare peace, adopt Free Religion and pay us all of his 160 gold.
What do you say? And what about Germany? At which point do we ask for their capitulation? Also, what shall we research next? Nobody seems to be willing to trade us Astronomy, and we probably need that to continue up the tech tree.
Yes, I think it's going to be a neck to neck space race with Peter, with a real risk of us losing unless we manage to distract or sabotage Peter well enough. No end to the suspense, eh?
bluedevil99
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 139
Caveat: I only recently made the jump to monarch, but I'll jump into the discussion anyway.
As long as Peter is NOT running Mercantilism, bribe Monty to stop trading with him. That GNP graph scares me, and anything to stop them from being buddies is a plus.
There's probably nothing we can do about it, but wouldn't it be nice if Monty took that juicy little Islamic holy city and made the switch to Islam on his own?
I'd probably knock out Frankfuft if only to make Munich and Bremen potential assets in the SR. I might have razed Bremen.
This may just be me, but I'd be worried about Monty or Peter taking Bismark as a vassal (Monty would be particularly bad).
YOU NEED A NAVY. I think you can whup Peter in the SR (you have more cities and it looks like good production). But a Russian invasion fleet could really ruin your day...
As long as Peter is NOT running Mercantilism, bribe Monty to stop trading with him. That GNP graph scares me, and anything to stop them from being buddies is a plus.
There's probably nothing we can do about it, but wouldn't it be nice if Monty took that juicy little Islamic holy city and made the switch to Islam on his own?
I'd probably knock out Frankfuft if only to make Munich and Bremen potential assets in the SR. I might have razed Bremen.
This may just be me, but I'd be worried about Monty or Peter taking Bismark as a vassal (Monty would be particularly bad).
YOU NEED A NAVY. I think you can whup Peter in the SR (you have more cities and it looks like good production). But a Russian invasion fleet could really ruin your day...
i checked the save. there are some gold per turn from every civ i think u forgot to take which could raise your slider at least 10%. peter has dye, do u want to trade copper for it and 2 gpt? u can rearrange the rice for copper deal.
i tend to take more cities from the German because of culture pressure. Berlin will be useless if it constantly went revolt, so the northern three cities are problems. Frankfurt also produce large amount of annoying culture. fight another 20turns to wipe out Germany wont slow u down too much but give u the whole continent without fighting culture wars later.
your builds: maybe u need enough universities for the oxford, but i would build factories everywhere first to be more productive. consider this or maybe your plan is better? building wealth is not as good as getting the factories online in York.
about the other continent, i think u can't risk diplomatic drop with peter, once he fell to annoying status, he would never come back to cautious again. so the second harmless option seems better for me. and your GM is doing good there, but when do u make him conduct the trade mission, maybe after the war is done so that all money goes to research? and your foreign relations seems good ! keep going. hope peter build UN quickly and u will probably win diplomatic victory.
ps, is this round longer?
i tend to take more cities from the German because of culture pressure. Berlin will be useless if it constantly went revolt, so the northern three cities are problems. Frankfurt also produce large amount of annoying culture. fight another 20turns to wipe out Germany wont slow u down too much but give u the whole continent without fighting culture wars later.
your builds: maybe u need enough universities for the oxford, but i would build factories everywhere first to be more productive. consider this or maybe your plan is better? building wealth is not as good as getting the factories online in York.
about the other continent, i think u can't risk diplomatic drop with peter, once he fell to annoying status, he would never come back to cautious again. so the second harmless option seems better for me. and your GM is doing good there, but when do u make him conduct the trade mission, maybe after the war is done so that all money goes to research? and your foreign relations seems good ! keep going. hope peter build UN quickly and u will probably win diplomatic victory.
ps, is this round longer?
better to conduct the space race in peaceful atmosphere, so watch peter from now on and please him as long as it is acceptable.
SnowlyWhite
Emperor
if relations aren't good between monty and peter, don't bribe monty to stop trading, or peter will be pissed, declare on monty and have a field day with him looking at the tech situation/power graph(I doubt you can do it anyway, since, being the same religion, probably "friends" will red the option).
bribe to stop the war... my 2 cents.
bribe to stop the war... my 2 cents.
bluedevil99
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 139
I'm a lot less concerned about Peter having his way with Monty than the current situation, where Monty and Brennus are going at each other hardcore, constantly asking you to take sides (hurting your relations with both) and Peter is sitting back in fake-war mode, stockpiling units and enjoying great relations with Monty. Monty is the only AI I've seen wipe out a rival civ--he is SO much better than Peter at war that the power disparity worries me a lot less.
To me the ideal situation is building up a strong navy (and maybe gunships) and getting Monty to declare on Peter. That way you can come into the war on Monty's side and pillage the heck out of Peter (which you will need to do anyway to win the SR) while your navy sinks any Russian invasion fleets. The trick is to somehow make it happen before Monty gets rocketry and has "too much on his hands". On Conts maps I often declare late game wars for diplomatic/pillaging reasons simply because with RR, tanks, and a decent navy it's so easy to play defense (as usual the AI *sucks* at attacking).
An interesting situation, it's very tough to win from here. But that is the meaning of a challenge 
Berlin has a 6% chance of revolt per turn due to Hanover's culture, so you need to capture that city before accepting Bismark's capitulation. The trouble is other cities will be under the same sort of cultural pressure and threat of revolt even if you free Berlin, due to the way you invaded the territory
A deep thrust into established enemy territory has that effect, while a more conservative attack can free a self supporting chunk under less cultural pressure from your eventual vassal.
The trouble with continuing the war is the horrid loss of research due to culture already at 40%, and research at 30% and gold at 30%. That is expensive and it will get worse rapidly. I wonder if Police State (from Pyramids) and a lower cultural setting would be better than Representation and high cultural setting.
Another observation, we are running Emancipation but still have lots of tiles (plains farms and grassland farms) that could be converted to cottages (in Caesar's old territory) ans several idle workers. After Biology plains cottages are just as good as grassland cottages. Should we try to work more cottages as a future investment as well as higher commerce income?
Good Luck
Berlin has a 6% chance of revolt per turn due to Hanover's culture, so you need to capture that city before accepting Bismark's capitulation. The trouble is other cities will be under the same sort of cultural pressure and threat of revolt even if you free Berlin, due to the way you invaded the territory
A deep thrust into established enemy territory has that effect, while a more conservative attack can free a self supporting chunk under less cultural pressure from your eventual vassal.The trouble with continuing the war is the horrid loss of research due to culture already at 40%, and research at 30% and gold at 30%. That is expensive and it will get worse rapidly. I wonder if Police State (from Pyramids) and a lower cultural setting would be better than Representation and high cultural setting.
Another observation, we are running Emancipation but still have lots of tiles (plains farms and grassland farms) that could be converted to cottages (in Caesar's old territory) ans several idle workers. After Biology plains cottages are just as good as grassland cottages. Should we try to work more cottages as a future investment as well as higher commerce income?
Good Luck
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,434
Looks like you can split your attack units and take both Frankfurt and Hanover pretty easily, which I think you need to do because of cultural pressure. Your city raider units would just sit around during a space race anyway. I might even scrape together another stack from your reserve garrisons and go after Stuttgart, just to relieve revolt pressure. You might as well smoke what you've got at this point unless you think someone else is going to adopt Frederick (or Bismark? that German guy).
obsolete
Deity
Hey guys, I keep forgetting to ask this.... When I do screen shots I usualy just hit Print-Screen, then paste into PS. However, I know there is a built in system for taking screen shots, I just can not remember how to access it, and the hotkey is not listed in the civpeadia hotkey list either.
Morgrad
Attack Rodent
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 367
Anything you can do to slow/distract Peter is, in my opinion, worthwhile. Get Monty to stop trading with him, and see if you can get your squabbling brothers to declare peace - sooner is better.
Making him mad at Monty wouldn't hurt - but it would be a good idea to give Monty some time to re-build his army before plowing into Peter.
Making him mad at Monty wouldn't hurt - but it would be a good idea to give Monty some time to re-build his army before plowing into Peter.
slaze
Deity
Isn't it better for peter to be at war? So what if he gets pillaged cities. They're not going to contribute to the space race and they'll increase his maintenence and thin out his army.
But then, Peter is getting scary. If you look at spanish santiago its on a 3 hammer plains hill so that means they're already at aluminum. Personally, I'd love to see you fight peter. If you could get a city over there (Bibracte, at 11 tiles from Moscow would be ideal) and stuff it with city garrison troops maybe you could survive his attack waves. Or you could go Nuclear. But look at that power graph you posted. You took down bismark. you can take down peter ... i hope.
Take frankfurt and hannover before capitulating (dusseldorf would be nice, but doesnt look possible), break up peter and monty (stopping trading and free religion sounds good) and go through astronomy.
But the truth is you are very far behind in tech.
But then, Peter is getting scary. If you look at spanish santiago its on a 3 hammer plains hill so that means they're already at aluminum. Personally, I'd love to see you fight peter. If you could get a city over there (Bibracte, at 11 tiles from Moscow would be ideal) and stuff it with city garrison troops maybe you could survive his attack waves. Or you could go Nuclear. But look at that power graph you posted. You took down bismark. you can take down peter ... i hope.
Take frankfurt and hannover before capitulating (dusseldorf would be nice, but doesnt look possible), break up peter and monty (stopping trading and free religion sounds good) and go through astronomy.
But the truth is you are very far behind in tech.
The risk of revolt can be eliminated if enough troops are kept in the city. Once peace is made there won't be anything else for them to do unless an invasion of the other continent is planned.
Looking at Hannover and Frankfurt I'm not sure there's much to be gained, and probably not enough to warrant continuing the war with culture slider at 40%.
TRJS
Warlord
Sorry for the off-topic nature of this post but is there any guide etc that discusses how troops reduce the chance of revolt?
Deranged Duck's Culture Mechanics Disassembled article has a description. (Disclaimer: I have no way of knowing how accurate it is, as I haven't checked the SDK code myself).
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=225927
aelf
Ashen One
York has too little production. It will never be able to get a factory online. Building wealth seems to be the most helpful way the city can contribute for now.
Based on the rather grim predictions, shall we expect a loss for this game? I don't really know what else we could have done. It's one of those situations where the AIs let one of them runaway with the game. Yeah, it sucks. I really don't want another loss, but what can we do?
So what now? Shall we capitulate Bismark immediately? Vassals are not able to own plots within your cities' fat crosses unless those plots are as near to one of his cities. That would probably solve the revolt problems. Maybe if we focus on research now and get Monty and Brennus to fight Peter, we can pull of a space victory after all. Diplomatic seems difficult, since Monty and Brennus are both close to Cautious with us.
I'm really annoyed with the AIs in this game.
anything u do will be perfectly fine except giving up this game. internet-- space race victory should be viable this time, why are u so depressed?
can u run some engineers in your GPP city to get some GEs to help with the TGD and the elevator?
can u run some engineers in your GPP city to get some GEs to help with the TGD and the elevator?
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