The Inca

[Leoreth]

(... but not Peru.)

So, after the Aztec overhaul worked out and I'm still working on Mexico, I think the Inca could also use some new goals. Especially something pre-Columbian.

Maybe the gold goal could be moved earlier, to 1500 AD?

It should also be harder to establish the historical Inca Empire, so I think at least the player should start with less settlers. The first goal then could be to build a road from Ecuador to Chile (similar to Russia's railroad goal), since the Incas were known for their road network. Throw in a tight deadline (1300 AD?) and a barbarian threat (Mapuche to the south are historical) and it could be challenging.

I'm also wondering if I should change their UB. They get it for free and the terraces are already represented in their UP. So maybe they should be replaced by a Tambo (could replace castles and become available earlier).

Further ideas and comments?

 

[Gruekiller]

Maybe the player should be required to conquer indie cities rather than settle them. The Inca in real life won their Empire by conquest against the Aymara, Chimu, and others.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, and here it's more practical than in the Aztecs' case.

 

[Gruekiller]

Yeah, and here it's more practical than in the Aztecs' case.

Yep. It's a pity Mexico isn't big enough to have the Tarascans or even the Tlaxcalteca around to resist the Aztecs. Nothing to be done about it, though.

I like the tambo idea, but if we're giving the Inca better defensive capabilities, then maybe the Euros should be more inclined to conquer Peru. As it is, I rarely see them conquer the entire Andes. They just stall outside of Qusqu and capitulate the Inca, which is kind of annoying.

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

If you want the tambo as a building, i believe that they would be better represented as a courthouse replacement than a castle replacement, though the latter would certainly much more beneficial to the Incas.

EDIT: Actually, after a bit more research, a tambo replacing the castle might be appropriate.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I guess I have to make Huayna Capac even more stubborn.

Do you know a good city to represent the Aymara? Chan Chan for Chimor is already on the map.

Edit: there are tons of courthouse replacements already, though. I don't even think the building would need to be super useful, considering that almost everything is an upgrade from +1 culture.

 

[Gruekiller]

I haven't a clue, though I'll be sure to look. Tiwanaku might make a good indie city target, though.

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

Give the Inca only one settler to start with, and a smaller flip area, but give them some more Quechua warriors [I think these should be renamed]. Tiwanaku should be spawned as an indie or native city prior to their spawn.

 

[Wondering Kid]

Sorry guys, but scratch Tiwanaku. Those guys are based in Bolivia, in order for Tiwanaku to work; mountains east of Titicaca Lake should be turned into hills. And it'd be very close to Cuzco...

Representing the Aymaras meets the same fate; as they occupied most of Bolivia, parts of what is now central Peru and some of Northern Chile. Space is quite limited for them, which is a shame; as they were assimilated (not 100% willingly) by the Incas, after all. Maybe have some hostile units representing them?

Maybe just give Incas a settler to found Cuzco, then have the coast populated by 4 Indie/Native cities? Chan Chan, Pachacamac, Arequipu,and Quitu? And let the Incas settle the last city on the Atacama Desert on their own? All that while battling Mapuches and Aymaras. That should be fun, and good warming for when the Spaniards arrive.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Tambo is an excellent choice. I always play the Inca as very defensive civ because it's easy to set up defensive positions along the narrow terrain of the Andes. An earlier Castle (with Construction?) would be perfect for that.

A road-conquest goal is good too because it really gives a chance for the Incan UU (which is excellent in theory) to shine (against Indie/Barb Archers).

Oh, and don't forget the Machu Picchu Wonder. You can get it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=18952

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, and don't forget the Machu Picchu Wonder. You can get it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=18952

That's of course massively overpowered for their terrain and in combination with the UP. But maybe it could be something that helps with creating gold.

 

[merijn_v1]

A completely different idea for Machu Picchu.

Instead of a wonder, it could be an improvement. It provides some bonud yeilds (10 commerce or something similar).
When another civ controls that specific tile, the improvement will disappear, like some resources in Makurian territory in SoI.
Additionally, it could reappear when the civ who control it discovers Mass Media. (To represent the tourism)

The advantages:
- It will always be on the historical location. And it can be placed on a peak.
- The fact that the Europeans couldn't find it is represented.
- It helps creating gold.
- As it improves only 1 tile, it's not likely to be overpowered, like the on is IOSI suggestion.

The disadvantages:
- As it isn't a real wonder, no culture and GP points are generated.
- It's quite determined.


Other city-wonders, like Petra, can be represented by this as well.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Of course I wasn't suggesting keeping the effects of Machu Picchu in the link I provided. That is for base BTS, without Incan UP. And even then it's a bit OP IMO.

Its effect in DoC should be similar to a Town, i.e. +1 , +7 , and 1 Trade Route.

merijn's suggestion is more along the line of the Natural Wonders modcomp:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12389110

which are basically pre-existing Terrain Improvements to the effect of 1 Town + 1 super Tribal Village, with special graphics.

I think it would be a nice addition, but some of the art work really need work. Also if pre-placed (as they must be in DoC) it could be boring since you see them in the same place every game. Unless their location is randomized a little bit, like what Leoreth did with Tribal Villages.

 

[KievanRus]

What about an improvement to a mountain tile? This way no other civ could use it but the Incans.

 

[merijn_v1]

What about an improvement to a mountain tile? This way no other civ could use it but the Incans.

That is actually what I meant.

But just an improvement will not make it Incan-only. You can't work tiles that don't provide yeild. (peaks, snow tiles) By putting an improvement on it (and thus giving it yeilds), it can be worked by everyone.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know about special improvements to represent wonders. First of all, that'd probably open another can of worms and other stuff would have to be represented this way too. Or conversely, it'd be weird to only give Machu Picchu this special status.

I think the main reason to add a wonder, especially for the Amerindian civs, is to give them something special to build so they have a bit more to do while playing in isolation. So if it's going to be added, it should just be a normal wonder.

Anyway, I think I'll reduce the number of Incan settlers and spawn more cities. In case the AI can't handle this (I'll give it a chance though), I'll give it an extended flip zone. Their UB will be changed to:

Tambo (replaces Castle)
Requires Construction
+2 culture

Nothing great, but moderately useful. Okay in my opinion. Then they'd have the following UHV goals:

- Build 5 Tambos and a road from Ecuador to Chile by 1400 AD
- Have 2000 gold in 1500 AD
- Have 7500 gold in 1700 AD

Or would anyone miss the "keep out the Euros" goal?

 

[NorwegianSalmon]

I'd like an added effect like the grocer has for the Tambo - that is, + (or alternatively for certain resources. Not sure if it'd be particularly interesting with the Incas though. As far as I recall, they don't really lack health or happiness.

Or would anyone miss the "keep out the Euros" goal?

I find it dull. And I also think it can be completed through no effort of your own, simply by lucking out and getting colonised by a non-Euro civ (i.e. Arab conquerors).

 

[iOnlySignIn]

- Build 5 Tambos and a road from Ecuador to Chile by 1400 AD
- Have 2000 gold in 1500 AD
- Have 7500 gold in 1700 AD

Duplicate UHVs are bland and repetitive.

Change the third one to "become richer and larger than any European colonial civilization after 1600 AD". European colonial civilization means a civ that gets the Trading Company Event.

Edit: That could be too easy. Perhaps:
"become richer and larger than the top two European colonial civilizations combined after 1600 AD".

 

[KievanRus]

Duplicate UHVs are bland and repetitive.

Change the third one to "become richer and larger than any European colonial civilization after 1600 AD". European colonial civilization means a civ that gets the Trading Company Event.

This sounds pretty difficult to accomplish... European civs are programmed to be beasts in this mod. What about "Build Machu Picchu by 1500 AD" or "Have friendly relations with (some number) of European civilizations by (some date)"? Maybe even a gold from trade UHV.

Or maybe a "never lose a city" goal?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

This sounds pretty difficult to accomplish... European civs are programmed to be beasts in this mod.

Nah. They are really easy to shut down especially on 3000BC starts (no Apostolic Palace). As long as you survive the conquerors they'd be very weak.

"Have friendly relations with (some number) of European civilizations by (some date)"? Maybe even a gold from trade UHV.

If I were Incan, I would be gravely insulted by this. In fact I'm pretty insulted by this even though I'm not Incan.

Edit: You are excused if you are unaware that the Incans lost more than 95% of their population to the Spanish conquest.