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The inner workings of the Demo screen explained

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Robi D, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    Excellent, thanks Michelangelo, i was have difficulty establishing the graph because it lacks values which could be used to reference.

    However i did find out that the graph are one turn behind the game, so if your playing turn 60, the graph will be upto turn 59.
     
  2. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    I've finished doing all the experiments i wanted to run, so i've posted an updated version which has some extra info as well as few touch ups to the text. I'll keep updating it as new patches come out or if typos are discovered;).
    I will now move on in my experiments to see if and how the AI uses the Demographics stats in its decision making process, although i'm not sure if its possible i will give it a go and see what i come up with.
     
  3. Marshall Thomas

    Marshall Thomas Chieftain

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    What does it mean when your nation is at the highest point in the "Gold" category of the graph, but is ranked last in GNP in the demographics screen? I am ranked dead last in GNP on the demographics screen, yet I am the highest on the gold graph. What can this mean? -greatest income, but greatest expense?
     
  4. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    As mentioned in the update, the GNP graph and the GNP figure in the demographics screen are not the same.

    In the demo screen the GNP is income before the effects of markets/banks etc. minus expenses. On the graph its income after the effect of marketrs and banks minus expenses.

    Basically what it means is your expenses are around the same as your raw commerce, but at the same time you have built a lot of gold producing improvements. There is nothing wrong with this, however it does show a potential weak spot in your empire if someone was looking to attack it.
     
  5. Marshall Thomas

    Marshall Thomas Chieftain

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    Do research buildings(universities,observatorys) have the same effect as markets and banks on the Gold Graph? I suppose your research to income rate has no effect on this. I mean your research could be at 50% or 100%- it's still the same total amount. Thanks in advance for your response.
     
  6. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    As far as i have seen the Research and Culture building do not effect the gold (GNP) graph. The graph only takes into the raw commerce + the effects of markets and banks, which the research/culutre % setting have not bearing on the total, just how the commerce is divided up.

    In the newer version of the graphs (1.7 and beyond i think) Ulfn (link is in the first post) has included a reseach graph as well, which shows the accumilated research of each civ.
     
  7. pindicator

    pindicator Chieftain

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    A note on the "average" value under the soldiers column:

    This figure appears to be averaged and then rounded up to the nearest 250. Have not done extensive testing on this (just taking your system and applying it to a game where I knew all the starting units/technologies), so you probably want to double check this.
     
  8. Sonny

    Sonny Chieftain

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    ..........
     
  9. Luftwaffe88

    Luftwaffe88 Chieftain

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    I have done an research to find out the formula for the Population info shown in the Demo screen, finally i made it. And the formula should be:

    P = Max(1000, (N(N-1)/2)*(N+4)*1000)

    N is the Population you have, P is the pop shown on the Demographic screen

    e.g. If your game has just been started so your pop is only one, then your pop points in demo screen is, Max(1000, (1(1-1)/2)*(1+4)*1000), take the larger figure so 1000 is taken.

    e.g. If you are in an early game and you have only your capital now and it has 3 Pop, then the Pop shown in the demo screen should be Max(1000, (3(3-1)/2)*(3+4)*1000) = 3*7*1000 = 21*1000= 21000

    But it's a bit strange when you have a pop of 7, it doesn't show exactly 231000 but 232000 instead, i'm not sure where is the extra 1000 points come from, at first i thought it might be because of i made an worker so i guessed 1 worker = 1000 points, but then i made another worker but the value didnt change, then i made 3rd and 4th, still the same.

    What makes it stranger is the problem disappears when you reached the pop of 10, it shows EXACTLY 630000 now, then the problem is, why the pop points have extra 1000 points when you have a pop of 8 and 9, but soon disappears as soon as you reached pop 10? Maybe the answer is the game have a similiar but not exactly the same formula as mine. Maybe there are some other factors which also affect the pop points?

    Anyway it's great to have found a formula by myself. :cool:
     
  10. Luftwaffe88

    Luftwaffe88 Chieftain

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    Another correct formula for the Pop shown in the demo screen i have just worked out: Max(1000, (n+1)*(n(n-1)/2 +3n)*1000)



    .
     
  11. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    The 1000 difference in some of them could just come down to the way the numbers are rounded, but good work Luftwaffe:goodjob: the population makes sense now
     
  12. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    Well bumpety bump, dont want robi's work slipping to the bottom of the pile-especially when its very helpful.
     
  13. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    I have been meaning to update this for a while. I did a number of experiments with how the AI might use the demographics stats. While it was impossible to prove anything conclusively general trends did emerge. For that reason i don't think i'll put it in the main document.

    In the main the AI doesn't seem to play to much attention to the stats, i have not seen them react to the GNP or Production for example, if you or another AI has a big advantage in a particular area they don't seemed fussed about trying to focusing on closing the advantage or even trying to gain an advantage in a different area. They are very focused on their own game in this respect.

    The one stat they do pay attention to is the Power. But even this is flawed as the AI looks at the numbers as actual troop strength, rather then the relative value it is. As i showed eariler solider numbers come from Population, certain buildings and technologies and actual troops. This means you can fool the AI into thinking your stronger than them even if you have only a few units. If your style is a peaceful builder then Bronze Working and Iron Working is a must, at a value of 8000 and 10000 early in the game were other things only add 1000 or 2000 troops to the power numbers they give your power standing a big boost. While this does not guarantee an AI will leave you alone, especially the more agressive ones like Montezuma, it will go a long way to making the AI think twice about attacking you. This can give you an edge as while the AI focuses on building warriors and archers to improve their power you can focus more on workers and settlers and get some early infrastructure in place which will help later in the game. This AI attitude to the Power numbers can work the other way and they will see you a an easy target if their power numbers are ahead of yours, even though that might be down to other factors and not the number and quality of units. This again can be used against the AI to your benefit:).

    Also i have noticed that as the game goes on the Imports/Exports don't add up to the foreign trade routes. This means additional factors come into play that arn't there or arn't significant enough to show up early in the game. I get the feeling that some resources such as gold and silver do add to the numbers but i will need to set up some tests to find out exactly what it is.

    Finally i wont be getting Warlords straight away as i'm saving up for a new graphics card although i don't think there will be too much difference between the two versions.
     
  14. The Lardossen

    The Lardossen Chieftain

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    Hehehe, so when my bar shows I have half the military power of an AI, it really just shows that I have a lot of cities and almost zilch units :D
     
  15. IanDC

    IanDC Chieftain

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    A really useful article & it came up easily on a search - thanks.
     
  16. Darth Obvious

    Darth Obvious Chieftain

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    >Land Area- The total number of land squares within your borders * 1000. Coast and Ocean tiles are not counted.

    Is this for sq mi or km²? It doesn't make sense that after 1 expansion from my capital city alone my empire would be twice the size of Maryland... and what exactly would that make each square's dimensions? 10√10 mi (or km) to a side? There are a lot of problems here...
     
  17. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    I have the european version of the game and it says square km, the US version might say square mi. That 1 tile is 1000 sq. km or mi means that each side is 31.62 km or mi.

    The measurement part is really there for favour, just like the date in the top right corner. It has no real meaning to the game itself.
     
  18. Darth Obvious

    Darth Obvious Chieftain

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    I understand that it is only for flavor; I'm just saying that it numbers like that sort of ruin the immersion of the game. Doing a unit conversion would make each square about 400 square miles, which makes more sense....

    Or perhaps it depends upon world size? Like for a "small" map it counts as more, while for a "huge" map it counts as less?
    I must do some research on this...
     
  19. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    robi do you have warlords/any update needed?
     
  20. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    i'll be getting warlords late november/ early december so i'll be doing an update for warlords then, although i don't expect much difference
     

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