The Left Fails Yet Again

[Estebonrober]

I mean boomers are dying, it's a literal waiting game until America's demographics change.

Cynically in that trajectory the question becomes do they die anywhere fast enough? Whats the average boomer age now? 62? Does the planet have 20 more years of this extraction policy?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Republicans have done everything in their power to stop all of those proposals, yet you still think they will ever compromise on them. At what point does it stop being wishful thinking and enter the realm of delusional?

If you guys sit on you asses till then, it will take a lot longer for it to get better because you'll be fighting the courts for another 40 years.

And whose fault is that? We tried your way with compromise, look where it got us.

 

[Estebonrober]

I lean more towards beefed up Obama care over medicare for all.
More lenient immigration with a path to citizenship but not open borders.
Subsidized college for the needy, not total forgiveness.
Any others you like to ask about?

Beefed up Obamacare? Does that mean Public option?
Subsidized to what extent? Lets talk income ranges? Everyone under 35k per person in a houlsehold gets free college?

Very few leftists are actually asking for open borders, that is right wing propaganda.

 

[Arwon]

it is definitely true that the system is completely rigged against small parties, but otoh German politics has been dominated by the two "Volksparteien" (people's parties) for most of the post-war era, but in the last 20 or 30 years this has changed completely, because people are simply unwilling to support both the big parties and have showed that at the ballot. this years actually had a historically positive result for the greens, and an unprecendent loss of the bigger parties.

it is, to a significant degree, the fault of the American people that there are only two relevant parties. Americans love their political teamsports, and I see little to no active endeavors to try and change that, honestly. if anything political currents are moving in the opposite direction, I can imagine a party challenging the big 2 even less nowadays then perhaps 10 years ago. you hear this common mantra of "both parties are bad!", but few people are doing anything to combat that, and actually, few people mean it when they say that. they still have their team, they just don't want to be open about it.

To an extent, but the extent of organised suppression and lockout of other parties in the US electoral system is unparalleled in the democratic world

 

[Zardnaar]

Ah yes the solution to the humanitarian crisis of forcing people into concentration camps in the US is to meet the Republicans halfway.

Like imagine being so far removed from reality that you think that is an actual solution and not an example of the Democratic party being run by centrists whos' brains have melted due to age and priviledge.

I'm sure the same party that helped birth this:

Is really interested in honest compromise, the same party standing behind an absolute disgrace of a man, a racist, a rapist, a man with credible links to a paedophile and his sex ring, the same party that lies time and time again, cries about rules but then ignores them the second it's conveniant for them to do so.

The compromise to me would be better treatment cut immigrant numbers.

Democrats seem fairly pro immigration but less immigration is a legit concern IMHO.

 

[Estebonrober]

The compromise to me would be better treatment cut immigrant numbers.

Democrats seem fairly pro immigration but less immigration is a legit concern IMHO.

Cut immigrant numbers to what? We rely on growing population numbers to feed our continued economic growth we do not provide that locally anymore. I guess we could just give up on continued economic growth but . . .

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Capitalism relies on immigration so uh yeah

 

[brennan]

There's no reason why economic growth has to be predicated upon increasing population.

 

[abradley]

direct quote from an article, his words are marked:





source: Wikipedia article, leading to this news article:

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/...to-lead-conservatives-in-european-parliament/

you're very welcome. so, you tell me right now, does he say that homophobia is not a real problem? does he say that Christians are the most discriminated against? please do reply

I'll take Dr. Pipes recommendation over Wikipedia.

 

[Estebonrober]

There's no reason why economic growth has to be predicated upon increasing population.

Can we get any national examples of this in the last 300 years?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

To an extent, but the extent of organised suppression and lockout of other parties in the US electoral system is unparalleled in the democratic world

yes, true, except maybe Hungary and Poland, who democratically and (somewhat) voluntarily slipped into semi-dictatorship and single-party systems, which are arguably even better at locking other parties out

 

[brennan]

Well firstly, that's an obvious fallacy, and secondly: Japan. Right now. Population in decline, GDP still increasing.

Do you have a credible argument that can show that an increase in GDP cannot possibly be achieved by productivity growth without a growth in population?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I'll take Dr. Pipes recommendation over Wikipedia.

of course you would, no doubt. you love ignoring facts where it suits you. I even redacted my post and edited it after @El_Machinae rightfully pointed out an error on my part, you on the other hand prefer lying through your teeth just as it suits you

keep eating that PiS propaganda, keep supporting polish homophobes and literal autocrats, maybe some day you can be a useful idiot, too!

 

[Estebonrober]

Well firstly, that's an obvious fallacy, and secondly: Japan. Right now. Population in decline, GDP still increasing.

Do you have a credible argument that can show that an increase in GDP cannot possibly be achieved by productivity growth without a growth in population?

No just a false assumption apparently. So yea. That's good. It is slightly more complicated though, Japan isn't a great picture of economic growth on US terms anyways.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Well firstly, that's an obvious fallacy, and secondly: Japan. Right now. Population in decline, GDP still increasing.

Do you have a credible argument that can show that an increase in GDP cannot possibly be achieved by productivity growth without a growth in population?

A country with a work and school culture so bad people either kill themselves in ever increasing numbers or literally stay inside and shut themselves off to the world.

 

[rah]

Beefed up Obamacare? Does that mean Public option?
Subsidized to what extent? Lets talk income ranges? Everyone under 35k per person in a houlsehold gets free college?

Very few leftists are actually asking for open borders, that is right wing propaganda.

A public option will probably be necessary since there is no mandate to have insurance. It screws up the pools to much without some healthy participation.
Subsidized levels are up for discussion. I'm up for free community junior college, but not free all the way. It has to cost something or people will abuse it.

There are some that are asking for open borders, but not enough for it to every be taken seriously.

The point is I'm not totally locked in on any solutions, but would be open to discussion. I might actually bend more than you'd think, but we're the enemy so nothing will be done.

 

[brennan]

Population decline in Japan is probably harming growth (since historically it is an important growth factor), but like the rest of the world they are having trouble increasing productivity much as well. imo this is because of our incredibly wasteful modern consumer societies - if people learned to do without buying less garbage we'd all be much better off.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

And the democrats have bent so far, economically, that they are effectively indistinguishable from the Republicans unless you take into account their social stances and even then it's been a begruding tolerance, one borne from the left dragging the overton window back.

 

[rah]

Because they don't have the numbers that will go out and vote for some of your preferred extreme positions.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Ah yes the extreme position of:

Maybe don't persecute me

Maybe let me have healthcare

Maybe don't let businesses get off scot free

Those insane positions that no centrists are currently running on apparently

The entire reason any of those might be considered insane today is because of how much compromise has been made, but yet like a moth drawn to the flame you find yourself unwilling to turn away.