The Left Fails Yet Again

[Cloud_Strife]

If you want to continue to live in denial that boomers had no impact or role in the situation we find ourselves in today go ahead, keep living in that fantasy world of yours Rah where the fog of age continues to cloud your mind, it's a lot more comfortable living in denial than it is to admit that the previous generations ****ed over the oppertunities of their children, grand children etc and it's a lot easier for you to complain about millenials then it is for you to take even a moments worth of introspection and wonder exactly why people are criticising you.

That's why i am here, to confront you and your kind; a generation that has pulled up the ladder, hoarded wealth, rigged the system and continues to perpetuate it, you won't even acknowledge you were complicit in it, you enjoyed and continue to enjoy the benefits but refuse to take any responsibility or ownership of it.

 

[Farm Boy]

Just imagine a world where you aren't talking about a generation of wizened stinky hippie flower children. Theirs was "don't trust anybody over 30." At least it was snappy.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

How many flower power times actually remain amongst the boomer cohort?

How many of them pull the levers of power? And continue to pull the ladder up, whilst they reaped the benefits of it in the past?

No generation has had it as good as they have and they've done everything in their power to retain that institutional power even as it comes at the expense of their own offspring.

And you expect people to not be pissed off about that? You expect people to not point the fingers at a group that at best, were apathetic?

And then you blame the younger generations for being "whiny" because apparently complaining about low wages, lack of housing and the in ability to afford it, as well as being materially worse off than their parents isn't valid even though those were a far cry from what boomers inherited and got.

Give me a break, the entitlement by boomers is insane.

 

[rah]

I don't deny any of it. What I take offense at is that you group us all together like we're all robots who's sole purpose was to screw you guys. That's as bad as racism in my book. How do you like it when anyone treats your community as one in a negative matter? You have provided no proof that I personally did any of that but it's easier for you to just blame and hate all of us.
Every generation will make mistakes. Thinking that your generation will be any different is just hilarious.
Your generation will do things that will benefit your generation.

 

[AmazonQueen]

The boomer cohort?
Yeh, right. Cos none of us were poor or left wing or protested.
We were just a solid mass who acted as one.

 

[rah]

I protested the Vietnam war. I was eligible to be drafted and sent over there.
I marched for civil rights.
I've marched for Gay rights.
But none of that matters I guess.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I don't deny any of it. What I take offense at is that you group us all together like we're all robots who's sole purpose was to screw you guys. That's as bad as racism in my book. How do you like it when anyone treats your community as one in a negative matter? You have provided no proof that I personally did any of that but it's easier for you to just blame and hate all of us.
Every generation will make mistakes. Thinking that your generation will be any different is just hilarious.
Your generation will do things that will benefit your generation.

What do you want me to do? Treat you like a child? Pretend that the situation is something it isn't, just to appease you?

I protested the Vietnam war. I was eligible to be drafted and sent over there.
I marched for civil rights.
I've marched for Gay rights.
But none of that matters I guess.

And then you voted republican and became a conservative and supported them, so yeah your past efforts are unfortunately tainted by what you are now.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The boomer cohort?
Yeh, right. Cos none of us were poor or left wing or protested.
We were just a solid mass who acted as one.

In the US at least, we have an entire generation of boomers who hold political power and have used it to make the lives of minorities, the poor, the working class, hell even the middle class, worse off materially. Do i not get to point that out?

 

[rah]

Yeah, minorities have more rights then the previous generation.
The LBGT community has more rights now then the previous generation.
I could go on and on but you'll just deny any of the progress and just condemn.
And you wonder why we don't take you seriously.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Curiously you ignore the concerted efforts of the Republican party and their Conservative enablers to withhold and withdraw those rights.

You are aware that it is still legal in some states to be fired for simply being gay, right? Liberal areas might be ok, but i didn't have the luxary of growing up in one of those place, i had to learn first had what Republican's and Conservatives actually were for firsthand.

Usually by a fist.

You also ignore the fact that even now the situation is still far from great.

You go and be openly gay or Trans down in the south and then come back and tell me how things have "changed", even as the same problems persist.

 

[rah]

I was dragged out of a car and beaten by cops in Texas for simply having long hair so while I'm not black or gay, it's not like I don't have any sympathy.
And I have stood up for their rights my entire life. So you're welcome.

And that concerted effort by Republicans is why I am no longer one. Not all conservatives are Republicans. You can't just group everyone together. There are many different levels of conservatives.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

What am i supposed to make of people who still stand by conservatives then? Or defend them? Or claim they are good people, even as my own experiences show otherwise? Do i just ignore that?

Should i be happy that they think it's acceptable to compromise with the more bigoted elements of their community, the same people who hate me?

Don't you get it? Why shouldn't i hold anger to those that enable the worse elements in their group? They literally wouldn't have the support they do without the framework laid by conservatives in the first place, you don't get to sit back and say you're no longer that way when the group in question still holds to those ideals, still supports politically, socially and financially the people who have done nothing but attack me.

You don't get to do that and then act like you're not part of the problem for enabling them in the first place and if that alienates you, well welcome to the real world, at least you have the chance of leaving conservatism i wasn't given such an option with my identity.

Being nice, all this decorum bs, doesn't do anything but enable the status quo, because it defangs any genuine attempts to change. If you don't want to be associated with the bigoted elements of your community, disassociate from them, stop supporting the framework and organisations that enable them to exist in the first place because anything short of that is merely lip service for the sake of politeness.

 

[rah]

Not all conservatives hate gays. I don't know where you get that from. I'm not conservative on all issues, actually quite liberal on many social issues.
You have no knowledge of my voting history except for a few of my presidential picks, which included Obama and a few other dems so I don't see how you get off saying that I enabled gay bashers. You don't know me. So until you do, I would prefer that you don't guess what I am by using some broadly defined labels.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Not all conservatives hate gays. I don't know where you get that from. I'm not conservative on all issues, actually quite liberal on many social issues.
You have no knowledge of my voting history except for a few of my presidential picks, which included Obama and a few other dems so I don't see how you get off saying that I enabled gay bashers. You don't know me. So until you do, I would prefer that you don't guess what I am by using some broadly defined labels.

So let's break this down; not all conservatives hate gays.

Okay, i can grant that.

But they do tend to vote in candidates that do hate gays, they do tend to support the same party that advocates said candidates, they do happen to fund said party and candidates. You aren't blameless in this and neither are democrats.

Your more progressive views don't whitewash the facts of the matter nor the historical record.

 

[Farm Boy]

You're right. The record is the record. One of pain and suffering and hard won victories and sometimes backwards motion. A worldwide generation of people screaming in the night rearing the Boomers left them with a lot of work to do. Just as you will have a lot of work to do. Strap in Cloud, life sucks and then you die.

 

[rah]

I guess that's my point. There are degrees of everything. Some conservative do what you claim. I won't deny that, but I don't consider myself part of that group.
I won't say that I've never voted for someone that may have done bad things in those regards. Sometimes both of the major candidates might fall in that group.
But I would like to think that is the exception and not the norm. But I'm sure I have made errors along the way. Most politicians are scum in general.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I get it, it's uncomfortable to be confronted, but why should i hold my tongue? Why shouldn't i be angry that it took conservatives so long to realise what minorities already knew? Why should i not condemn a party and a group that still lionizes Reagan even as he ignored the aids crisis? Why shouldn't i bring that up as a point of contention within the LGBT community?

People died and suffered immensely during this period and just that doesn't go away, that still impacts people to this day and unless the contrition is geniuine, i have no reason to believe anything has actually changed until as a group conservatives change, until they as a group make a genuine effort.

Look i apologise for being so heated on this Rah, but i can't keep giving conservatives the benefit of the doubt, being told that they don't support bigots or that they've changed even when as a group they give money and support to parties, to organisations and to people that DO.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@Cloud_Strife maybe it's time to stop bro. you literally haven't achieved anything in the last..5 pages? of this thread and are just flinging "stuff" at @rah , who is repeating almost ad verbatim the same arguments and by the way really shouldn't be your target. find smth better to do with your time, it's derailing the thread and starting animosity for no reason.

Ain't that the truth! The left has basically ceded the economic game to the right with the "third way" after the embarrasment of the soviet system. Why isn't there constant outrage about rent-seeking activities by the financial elites, multinational companies exploiting tax loopholes in free trade agreements, how these companies are making countries compete with taxation for their investments, how we are letting these companies' negative externalities be paid by the global poor and future generations and how their tax avoidance is plunging welfare states into increased taxation, cycles of dept or austerity.

yet we still hear the same argument repeated ad infinitum: But if we raise taxes, the rich will leave our country! the companies will leave! it has been proven wrong, both by history and by science, a million times over. but that doesn't matter, if you repeat it enough people will believe it.

Unfortunately most of the hippies are either gone or became conservative.

wrong actually, many of them became succesful turbo capitalists and are now in silicon valley, in advertising or in tech & research. they didn't vanish, they're still the same people, just with corrupted ideas. few of them became conservatives, most of them either settled down or went the opposite extreme and embraced neoliberal capitalism.

Blah Blah Blah, you found someone on the internet that agrees with you. That must have been real tough. Probably another whiny millennial.

this post is dumb and just pouring oil into the fire, carrying on with stereotypes and actually you're making yourself look like a stereotypical boomer even though you aren't one..

 

[Farm Boy]

He seems a normal enough guy to me man, even if he doesn't fit your stereotypes. Wouldn't even shake a stick at having a beer.

So is the attempted good natured dig at being "whiny" better or worse than the implication that your friends/peers/spouses are garbage by default that require "rising above?"

 

[Cloud_Strife]

You're right. The record is the record. One of pain and suffering and hard won victories and sometimes backwards motion. A worldwide generation of people screaming in the night rearing the Boomers left them with a lot of work to do. Just as you will have a lot of work to do. Strap in Cloud, life sucks and then you die.

True, but that doesn't mean i can't voice my utter frustration with the sitution we are in.

He seems a normal enough guy to me man, even if he doesn't fit your stereotypes. Wouldn't even shake a stick at having a beer.

So is the attempted good natured dig at being "whiny" better or worse than the implication that your friends/peers/spouses are garbage by default that require "rising above?"

Strange how that sucks eh? But the facts are the facts and the history stands.