The Link Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia

[Ayn Rand]

It aint a crime to sell, buy or use drugs. It may be against the law but even the people who support the law refer to "crime and drugs" when talking about their ideology - thats a Freudian admission the two aint the same. And thats hypocrisy anyway, can you picture a booze drinking, tobacco smoking politician looking down his nose at a pot smoker?

I'm really not sure what you mean. That illegal things are not immoral? If that's what you mean, then they don't have to be. Laws are passed for a variety of reasons other than morality alone - reasons such as public health, safety, efficiency and so on.

If "crime" is defined by what the law says, then it was a crime for slaves to runaway and it was a crime to help them even after they ran away. And what the Nazis did to Germans was "legal", not criminal, right? Thats why your argument falls apart, crimes have victims regardless of what any law says... There aint no victim if you smoke pot, drink booze, or take Rush Limbaugh's drug(s) of choice... Is Limbaugh a criminal? I didn't see many (any) rightwingers condemn him as such...

Yes that is how crime is defined and yes it was a crime for slaves to run away, and what the Nazis did was legal. That doesn't add anything to your argument though.

It doesn't follow that because of this, you can choose any law and say it is flawed in the same way. The slave and race laws were immoral - they were wrong for a reason. The law is not a flawed concept in itself, you can't make direct analogies between nazis/slavery and drug prohibition without giving reasons as they are not directly comparable.

Its about moral authority (and that certainly encompasses ethics), I dont have the moral authority to decide what you can put in your own body. I'd be one arrogant SOB if I went around announcing I did, but many/most people believe hiring a politician to be the arrogant SOB is ethical, like you. I dont agree... Freedom is ethical, or more ethical than slavery and authoritarianism. You really should drop the name, I cant imagine a fan of Ayn Rand so gleefully handing politicians the power to make our most fundamental decisions.

I don't think it is about moral authority alone. If it is about any one thing, it is about consequences. I don't care what you put in your body, it is the consequences of what you put in your body that concern me.

I didn't hand politicians the power to regulate these things - but we live in a democracy; compromise is essential to democracy and so is respect for the laws that are passed by the legitimate authorities. If you don't like them, challenge them through legal and political means - it's a free country. You don't have the right to break the laws of a democracy unless it is an emergency situation.

What if that somebody else isn't a violent criminal? You dont make the distinction, so you wanna preach ethics? And supporters of the drug war created the black market with their laws, not the drug users - when was the last time alcohol dealers were having shootouts over market share? If my pharmacist uses the money I paid for eyedrops to hire a hitman to kill his wife, am I responsible? Of course not! A drug deal is 2 people getting together to exchange their goods. A 3rd party - you - step in with armed men to stop us, and then you blame us for the resulting chaos? You made the situation violent...

In the overall drug market, there are multiple stages of production, shipping, finance and so on. Criminologists and police specialists have identified the groups behind these processes and know they are very violent and dangerous. So I stick to my point - buying drugs is simply not ethical, although you can continue to evade that point if you don't want to recognise it.

If you create a massive black market with your law, you dont get to runaway from the results. But that statement is the drug war aint based on the alleged hypocrisy of drug users. As for my conscience, I haven't demanded my government jail millions of people for exercising their freedom. Thats a lotta people waiting for you on judgment day

You are being somewhat rhetorical, and you are also switching the blame back onto the government. It is the responsibility of the government to provide security and police dangerous behaviours.

When geurillas or terrorists engage in prolonged bombing campaigns, they try to blame the government for failing to provide security. That is what drug-takers are doing - creating a dangerous state by their own choice of actions and then smugly blaming the police and government so they can force a climbdown. They're not fooling anyone.

Freedom is the absence of coercion or constraint on choice or action.

Such freedom doesn't exist.

I wanted to respond to the rest of your post but its not fair on other forum users if our posts get too long If you want to re-raise any of those points in a future post I'll be happy to respond to them.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

"Since there are many studies that contradict each other, I'm going to take the portion that supports my politics as the definitive studies."

I would have liked it too if the article linked to studies instead of "photoessays".

 

[nonconformist]

So, uh, drug users are equivalent to terrorists?

You are aware that a lot of the marijuana sold in the UK is homegrown, and never goes through the hands of the hardended criminals hollywood has conditioned you to believe?

 

[Truronian]

Use of marijuana increases. Rate of schizophrenia remains the same.

I'm afraid I'm missing the correlation here.

 

[amadeus]

If schizophrenia is more prevalent in people that use marijuana, shouldn't the number of schizophrenics be generally higher in countries that consume marijuana more than others? About 13% of youth and adults in the U.S. use marijuana annually as opposed to 6% in the Netherlands and 3% in Portugal. There seems to be negligible difference in the prevalence of schizophrenia, though...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Funny how in the Netherlands were MJ is practically legal usage is lower than the US.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

As Ive said, ice cream causes drowning.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You must conform to authority, especially when it makes absolutely no sense to do so. Every libertarian instinctively knows this.

 

[Ayn Rand]

You must conform to authority, especially when it makes absolutely no sense to do so. Every libertarian instinctively knows this.

I'm sorry, did you actually have a rational argument as to why taking drugs is a good idea?

Addiction, crime, death, mental illness, social breakdown, murder, gangs, rehab, wasted lives, overdose - yeah, I'm seeing the benefits.

Don't conform to authority kids - listen to people like formaldehyde, they are really smart and have all the answers.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

And of course, everyone knows enforcing drug laws has no costs. No. Costs.

 

[MobBoss]

I'll find a limb too, looks like you wont be responding to your own article after reading it so carefully.

Well, it doesnt make sense to even try to argue with people so mired in their love for marijuana that they get all upset if say anything bad about their drug.

I still think is a good article and quite informative, and I think more than a few drug users are simply seeing what they want to see.

I also dont think the prop in California is going to pass. The state hasnt gone utterly bonkers yet.

 

[civ_king]

Well, it doesnt make sense to even try to argue with people so mired in their love for marijuana that they get all upset if say anything bad about their drug.

I still think is a good article and quite informative, and I think more than a few drug users are simply seeing what they want to see.

I also dont think the prop in California is going to pass. The state hasnt gone utterly bonkers yet.

trust me, the Republicans aren't helping, with such deficits they are more likely to pass Marijuana

 

[MobBoss]

trust me, the Republicans aren't helping, with such deficits they are more likely to pass Marijuana

Since the democrats control the state congress there in CA, why do you blame the republicans?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I thought Governor Schwarzenegger was a Republican?

Not that he'd smoke pot of course.


Link to video.

 

[civ_king]

Since the democrats control the state congress there in CA, why do you blame the republicans?

you need 66% to pass tax increases, Democrats just aren't there, lots of funding is guaranteed by Proposition so there just isn't that much to cut

 

[illram]

It won't pass because the growing community and the less law abiding members of the medical cannabis community are totally against it. They're driving a big mis-information campaign about it because it will hurt their bottom line. The key will be the undecided voters that turn out on election day.

I don't know, it could still pass but I just don't see it happening with the poll numbers right now and the sentiment I hear from people in the community. Which is unfortunate because I want it to pass.

 

[civver_764]

I'm sorry, did you actually have a rational argument as to why taking drugs is a good idea?

Because it's fun and feels awesome.

Plus I'm pretty sure you don't get addicted to pot.

 

[nonconformist]

Addiction,

Marijuana is non-addictive

crime

,
Circular argument, the only crime inherent with marijuana is that the government decrees it illegal

death

Not a single recorde death from cannabis ever

, mental illness,

Sometimes, though unlikely

social breakdown, [/QUOTE
You sound like a Mike Leigh film

murder,

For ganj?

gangs,

Uh, no

rehab

,
Not really

wasted lives

true, though msot stoners were wasters with or without it

, overdose

Not a single recorded incident...in fact, it's pretty much impossible

 

[MobBoss]

Conservatives would just find any excuse to make pot illegal. It threatens there tobacco and booze!

Pots already illegal....

Aye, but I'm successful, huh?

Nah, you're just starting out. I think your under the 'remains to be seen' category. But you did finish your school and got placed, so thats a nice kudo.

Marijuana is non-addictive

You say this, however, marijuana addiction is one of the most commonly treated addictions in drug therapy and rehab. I guess the DSM-IV disagrees with you thus far.

 

[civ_king]

Pots already illegal....



Nah, you're just starting out. I think your under the 'remains to be seen' category. But you did finish your school and got placed, so thats a nice kudo.



You say this, however, marijuana addiction is one of the most commonly treated addictions in drug therapy and rehab. I guess the DSM-IV disagrees with you thus far.

Marijuana can't cause physical addiction like Tobacco, but you can become dependent on it