The Martyr from the Netherlands

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The Martyr from the Netherlands

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This week, the trial against Geert Wilders is starting. He stand accused of hate speak against Muslims, and is risking two years in prison if found guilty.

I read a very interesting commentary on this in a Norwegian newspaper, and wanted to share it with CFC as I think it is very well written.

Link: In Norwegian of course
For those who are wondering, Dagbladet (the newspaper) is considered in Norway to be more or less (depending on who you ask) left-leaning, pro-feminism and somewhat tabloid. I don't know anything about the journalist who wrote the commentary.

Written by Stian Bromark. Translated by yours truly.
The Martyr from the Netherlands
This week, the trial against Geert Wilders, the most popular politician in the Netherlands, is starting. He stand accused of hate speak against Muslims. If he is found guilty, we will all be be in lots of trouble, writes Stian Bromark.

Muslims are invading Europe. Islam is a fascistic terrorist religion. The Quran is just like "Mein Kampf". Thus sounds Geert Wilder, the oracle from Haag, parliamentarian and leader of the xenophobic Party for Freedom. On Wednesday this week, his trial will begin. Wilders stand accused of spreading hate messages against Muslims in several statements during the last couple of years, including the movie "Fitna", which portrays Muslims as terrorists. If he is convicted, he risks up to two years in prison. The repercussions of a potential judgment will be felt all over Europe.

Who is the most important person in Europe today, asked the conservative American commentator Daniel Pipes on Tuesday. The answer? Geert Wilders. Polls show that he is now the most popular politician in the Netherlands and the Party for Freedom is poised to become the largest political party during the parliamentary elections next year. Wilders, according to Pipes, is the most able person to handle the challenges of multicultural Europe. "He has potential to become a person of world historical caliber." Nothing less. Wilders is charismatic, freely speaking and politically cunning. He manages to appear as a martyr for freedom of speech, even as he himself is trying to ban a book: the Quran. Wilders has the zeitgeist at his side. Ever since the Netherlands experienced the murder on film director Theo van Gogh in 2004, carried out by Mohammed Bouyeri, the previously so tolerant Dutch people have turned around 180 degrees and assumed an implacable stance towards immigrants and Islam. And Wilders leads the way.

The trial will be watch closely by everyone which have invested intellectual capital in the destiny of multicultural Europe. Wilders is, after all, an elected politician. He would be immune if his sharp comments had come from the speakers chair in parliament. Now there is actually a chance that he will be found guilty, as the Netherlands has a legislation that for instance bans the publishing of Hitler's Mein Kampf. Wilders' supporters cries "freedom of speech", but Wilders himself is going even further. He wants to call several witnesses to the stand and ask them to answer one question: Is what I am saying true, or is it false? If what I'm saying is the truth, then can I be sentenced for telling the truth? If Wilders gets acceptance for his demands, then we will experience an exceptional trial.

Many people would sacrifice their left arm to ensure that Wilders continued to be a curiosity in Dutch politics. And he would have, if it did not happen that European immigration debate has stopped caring about facts, and instead concentrates on symbols. When the TV networks refused to show "Fitna" (which by the way contained music by Grieg), it became much more important for people to watch the 17 minutes long brown filth of terrorism images and Quran-quotes on the Internet. When Wilders was denied entry into Great Britain in February 2009, he rose a few notches in the polls. Now he is about to receive his martyr status. If the Party for Freedom ends up being the largest party in the Netherlands, it will probably need coalition partners to instate a government. A miracle is needed for Wilders' party to get a majority by itself. If he is convicted, there is a chance that that is exactly what the Dutch court is offering him on a silver plate.

Freedom of speech has a price. It is a price we must pay every time we hear something we don't like. The same goes for tolerance. If we are going to surpass the level of party speeches, it must be used when it hurts the most. Democracy is no less tricky: One thing is that Geert Wilderes has completely horrifying opinions; what happens when many or — Allah forbid — a majority of the Dutch voters offer him absolute power? If these values are going to continue to have a positive chime, then his opponents are forced to keep their fists in their pockets, pray to higher powers (i.e. Voltaire) and ask Wilders critical questions in the public space.
Well, what do you think?

It took me some time to translate, so I hope this was at least somewhat interesting. :)

And spare me any "tl;dr"s!!! :cry:
 
Radical Islam is a plague.
 
When I read the thread title and saw the photo, I thought he had been killed.

Thread doesn't deliver.

edit: Also, what Rik said, he's not the most popular politician.
 
I do not like Wilders. I even detest him to be honest. But this trial is too much. He can only win of it. If he wins the trial, all over sudden a lot of people can say a lot of bad things while Wilders will without a doubt itensify and increase his insults, trying to find the new 'line' over which to step just a little bit. If he loses the trial, he becomes a martyr and all those people that just don't understand so much about politics (and life) and love Wilders will feel that even the judicial system is against them... there is no way this trial can have a good effect on society.

And I find the mention of the Dutch giving him absolute power ridiculous. That would never happen.
 
The Netherlands is the first one to go demographically. Wildeers is the last hope the Islamists had already killed Theo van Gogh.
 
Haven't read much of your article, I stopped at the first error: "This week, the trial against Geert Wilders, the most popular politician in the Netherlands".

In the December election "Politician of the year" he didn't win.

:')

As if you can deny that he is the most popular politician. We ain't talking parties here, but individual politicians. No PVV members votes on his party because of other members of said party. I'm no fan, but you're just being ridiculous.
 
:')

As if you can deny that he is the most popular politician. We ain't talking parties here, but individual politicians. No PVV members votes on his party because of other members of said party. I'm no fan, but you're just being ridiculous.
I'm not denying he is the most talked-about Politician, but these 2 links show he's not the most popular:
1 , 2 - Sorry; in Dutch.
 
32.000 people voted on an online poll for the first and the second is based on 2400 youngsters. I already knew you were you going to bring those elections up, hence me saying to say that you should stop being ridiculous. An overwhelming amount of people support Geert Wilders and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone voting on his party because of one of the other members.

But hey, if you want to believe that Pechtold is our most popular politician ..

More ontopic - I don't think he'll be convicted. The way this whole mess started is dubious at best anyways and it's best for all of us if this stupid trial is over as soon as possible. The longer it stays, the more votes he gets, the more screwed we are. I agree with parts of his views on Islamd, but that doesn't mean that you can simply start using draconic measures to remedy it. The most stupid thing he said last year was that he wished to start taxing headscarfs.
 
And this is why you don't put people on trial for saying crazy things. You let them keep saying crazy things and ignore them like the crazy people they are.
 
The longer it stays, the more votes he gets, the more screwed we are.

Sums it up pretty well.

The Netherlands is the first one to go demographically. Wildeers is the last hope the Islamists had already killed Theo van Gogh.

Riiiight. Demographically. We already have an overwhelming number of 6% of the population of non-Western descent, not all of which are mulsim of course. Furthermore, even the worst case scenarios show that the total amount of mulsims in the Netherlands will be very unlikely to ever exceed 8%... the last couple of years the number has been more or less stable. So much for islamification. And of course, those worst case scenarios assume that those descendants of mulsim immigrants from the 1960s will stay practicing mulsims, instead of secularising as their position in society becomes more equitable, as most of society did/does.
 
Add to that divisions in the religion itself amongst theological and racial lines - Shiites, Sunnites, Turks, Moroccans - and you got a group that might sound like an entity, but it sure is not. It's a most worrying development though to see what's happening to the big cities. But that's for another topic I'd say.
 
Whatever. He is a bit extreme but he has a point, lots of people are worried about the influx of non-European immigrants into their countries and he talks about it and brings it into the agenda which should be good for everyone.
 
How big is the chance that the court of law will judge that the claim that the Quran is comparable to Mein Kampf is true?
 
In the US we have such a better system. One can say whatever group they want is a commie-fascist-fundie-nosepicker, and it is not considered hate speech because, as anyone with half a brain can see, that is not telling anyone to be violent. We can say what we want about politiians and religions and the government can kiss our ass. We don't get into trouble until we get to the point of saying something like "we should kill them". And for USians, who are routinely portrayed as ignorant and stupid, our system works fine; noone is confused and there is no question about what is what or who said how.

This case makes Europe look like fascists. Gratz guys. Europe treats adults like children.... "shhhhh! Don't say the M word!!11!!"

What losers. I'm so glad I don't live in the the Euro-Faci Zone, where the thought police arrest people for not liking everyone.

Officer! Officer! He used a hyperbole!! Off with his head!!!

It's amazing how freaking pathetic Europe can be. Netherlands with "don't use hyperbole" and England with "so pointy objects allowed". Serious tards.


If the US ever becomes a country where hyperbole is a criminal offense and I must prove everything I say is 100% true or I go to jail, I will suicide bomb my government.
 
I'm going to have to side with Ecofarm in that the USA are #1. First off, despite general anxiety towards Muslims, we'd never elect an idiot like this to office (hell we even have a muslin president ;)). Secondly, we live in a free country, which is kind of like a European country, but you can say nearly whatever you feel without threats of lawsuits. Indeed USA is number 1.
 
This case makes Europe look like fascists. Gratz guys. Europe treats adults like children.... "shhhhh! Don't say the M word!!11!!"

What losers. I'm so glad I don't live in the the Euro-Faci Zone, where the thought police arrest people for not liking everyone.

Officer! Officer! He used a hyperbole!! Off with his head!!!

It's amazing how freaking pathetic Europe can be. Netherlands with "don't use hyperbole" and England with "so pointy objects allowed". Serious tards.

Stop talking about Europe as if it is country! It's a continent with many countries, each with different laws. And, true enough, a fascist-would-be organization, the EU, but it has not yet destroyed all those countries.
 
first off, every thread is about america, secondly, it's not masturbation when our entire nation is doing it together.

If everyone is doing it together, is it called "massturbation"?
 
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