The Monarchists' Cookbook Bullpen

[Winston Hughes]

It doesn't really matter what script generated the map for the first game. M&S can generate a very wide range of different maps and starts, including some maps with fairly large continents and the occasional inland start.

The reason for excluding Archipelago in particular is that it will (nearly) always produce a game similar to the current MC. Since I know I'm almost certainly going to hit the regen button whenever an Archipelago map is generated, its just easier on me to exclude that map type altogether.

I've had a go at generating some maps with the same settings as MC1, but with Archipelago excluded. It seems that at least half of the maps are still quite watery, and very few look like being tough enough. I have managed to find a few very cool ones, though.

Incidentally, I generated a rather interesting (and, by the looks of it, very difficult) map which wouldn't be suitable for the next MC. I thought I'd post it here for anyone who fancies a go...

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Lol ... I'm playing a map almost just like that right now as Saladin.

----

Of the interesting saves you've found, are you going to upload them for us to sift through, or are you just going to pick one and submit just the one for us?

 

[Winston Hughes]

Of the interesting saves you've found, are you going to upload them for us to sift through, or are you just going to pick one and submit just the one for us?

I've got four or five likely candidates, each with a different leader, a different set of opponents, and on a different kind of map.

I reckon I'll give them all a quick try and see which one looks most promising, in terms of strategic flexibility, difficulty, and fun.

Unless you guys come up with any specific requests in the meantime, I'll PM that save to you a day or two before MC2 begins (I'm guessing that's 2-3 weeks away).

I think it's better that none of the players have any idea what's in store before the game begins, except that it'll be different from the last one.

The first round will work best, imo, if there's no screenshot of the start, no discussion of possible strategy, and perhaps even no mention of who the leader is. If everyone comes into it blind, and just does what comes naturally, we should see more variation in the first set of reports and saves.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

... a day or two before MC2 begins (I'm guessing that's 2-3 weeks away) ...

I was under the impression we agreed to make Round 5 the final round of Game 1 -- making the beginning of Game 2 in 7 days on Friday, May 30, 2008!

I think it's better that none of the players have any idea what's in store before the game begins, except that it'll be different from the last one.

The first round will work best, imo, if there's no screenshot of the start, no discussion of possible strategy, and perhaps even no mention of who the leader is. If everyone comes into it blind, and just does what comes naturally, we should see more variation in the first set of reports and saves.

I can do that. I'll also make note in the OP not to discuss the start -- just to go right into it.

I'll probably go back after Round 1 and add the starting screenshot, since I think it has a certain "lurker draw".

 

[Diamondeye]

Oookay, sounds like next round will be fun. I haven't checked the save Winston uploaded and won't... Now, let's mob up this game

 

[Winston Hughes]

1. 4000 BC - 1000 BC (120 Turns)
2. 1000 BC - 400 AD = (100 Turns)
3. 400 AD - 1150 AD = (60 Turns)
4. 1150 AD - 1500 AD = (60 Turns)
5. 1500 AD - 1700 AD = (40 Turns)
6. 1700 AD - 1780 AD = (40 Turns)
7. 1780 AD - 2050 AD = (390 Turns)

Something's wrong with the turn counts here. An epic game lasts 750 turns, but this adds up to 810.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Something's wrong with the turn counts here. An epic game lasts 750 turns, but this adds up to 810.

Fixed (I think):

4000 BC - 1000 BC (120 Turns)
1000 BC - 700 AD (100 Turns)
700 AD - 1300 AD (60 Turns)
1300 AD - 1600 AD (60 Turns)
1600 AD - 1740 AD (40 Turns)
1740 AD - 1820 AD (40 Turns)
1820 AD - 2050 AD (330 Turns)

Spoiler The Key :

25 years per turn over 140 turns --> 4000 BC - 500 BC
15 years per turn over 90 turns --> 500 BC - 850 AD
10 years per turn over 40 turns --> 850 AD - 1250 AD
5 years per turn over 90 turns --> 1250 AD - 1700 AD
2 years per turn over 70 turns --> 1700 AD - 1840 AD
1 year per turn over 100 turns --> 1840 AD - 1940 AD
0.5 year per turn over 220 turns --> 1940 AD - 2050 AD

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Holy Crap!

That Round was exhaustingly long.

If we ever combine multiple rounds like that again to finish off a game, we need to make it a 2-week Round or something.

There's no way I could've finished that if it wasn't a holiday weekend here.

 

[r_rolo1]

I haven't finished it yet...... somewhere in 1600.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I haven't even started it yet! Been too busy finding and testing the map for MC2...

Do you guys still want to begin the next game at the end of this week? If so, I'll pm the start to OTAKU on thursday.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I thought about us possibly needing to push MC2 back a week to give time for MC1 to finish, but then I remembered Rounds 1 and 2 take minimal IRL time, so I can't come up with a reason not to post it this Friday.

 

[Bleys]

I hope no one gets upset with me, but I am not going to be posting much of a final round in MC1. It was excruciating to finish, LOL, something about being 4 times the score/power/MFG, heh, it was brutal.

I will be typing up a synopsis, just finished, Domination in 1891, I will explain why my plan of an AP win was foiled, heh. Awesome game though, I want to start the next one ASAP, put me down for "THIS WEEK". In the meantime, despite having about 4 games half-finished, and one of my beloved LHCs not even started, I have become addicted to the GLH strategy so much that I am going to have a go in this months Immortal University with Hannibal. I played an Emperor game with Pacal (last months BOTM, in fact), and even though I didnt pull off the "submittable game" (made mistakes, decided to re-load a save), I totally stomped it with the GLH alone. Pacal is an incredible leader for that strategy, to be honest. Better than Hannibal, IMHO, EXP is just game-breaking for the GLH map-type. I actually think that it wasnt IND that won us Game 1 in such easy manner, it was EXP.

 

[Diamondeye]

Post it this friday, us who hasnt started on the last round of MC I can play along the start (since it is such a "short" round) while finishing the first game.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I think we've all done it (or at least have found ourselves wanting to). A few examples I'm guilty of in offline games are:

• "I Forgot to do something (whip, build, MM, etc)."
• "I Misclicked (moved unit wrong, etc)."
• "That's not what I wanted from the Goodie Hut."
• "I shouldn't've lost (battle, race, etc)."
• "I [should, should not] have started that war."

Because of the competitive nature of our format, the temptation is naturally higher to reload from a previous save to either correct a mistake or ensure a greater chance of success at achieving something.

... but when is reloading cheating -- specifically as it relates to this format?

 

[ranion]

I think we've all done it (or at least have found ourselves wanting to). A few examples I'm guilty of in offline games are:

• "I Forgot to do something (whip, build, MM, etc)."
• "I Misclicked (moved unit wrong, etc)."
• "That's not what I wanted from the Goodie Hut."
• "I shouldn't've lost (battle, race, etc)."
• "I [should, should not] have started that war."

Because of the competitive nature of our format, the temptation is naturally higher to reload from a previous save to either correct a mistake or ensure a greater chance of success at achieving something.

... but when is reloading cheating -- specifically as it relates to this format?

misclicks and forgetting to whip are things that are imo okay to reload so long as you catch them within 1 turn of when you did them/intended to do them, any longer than that and you run the risk of messing up other things with the game.

The other three instances, at least for an online setting, seem to me to be somewhat extreme, although I can certainly sympathize with losing units to 85+% odds.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

RE: reloading:

I think any time reloading is done to affect the RNG (i.e., battles, goodie huts, random events, etc), it's cheating.

Similarly, if reloading is done in response to a situation or turn of events previously unknown or unnoticed, it's cheating.

To me, the only time reloading isn't blatant cheating is when it's done so to correct an action (or lack thereof) previously known about but simply mistook -- such as having a Worker start a Cottage instead of a Farm or neglecting to whip a city at the right moment.

 

[Bleys]

I have actually been trying to force myself to play completely re-load free lately, including "forgetting" stuff like missing a whip, or a civic change. I still do it now and then (re-load a forgotten thing or a really horrible battle, like 4 90+% losses in a row, which happened to me in the Pacal HoF game), but currently, I try to play all games with only clear mis-click reloads allowed.

Now, one thing I have done is abandoned games because of a bad strategy plan, and gone WAY back to try another plan, but I do that as an instructional thing. I have done it a bunch of times on LHC games, especially, because I am so bad at intercontinental warfare that I actually re-play difference strategies to see how they work out differently.

Personally, I am of the opinion that if people want to re-load, its their prerogative. Even in this format. I would rather people play clean, but reloads dont bug me. This is a single player game, even the "Best Ball" style we use. I trust you guys to not do any blatant cheating, so reloading a missed whip or a 7-hostiles hut or a "last attacker, 98.9%" loss isnt going to kill anyone. I have tried to adjust my game away from those circumstances (like letting border pops get huts wherever possible, or not relying on barely-adequate units to take cities). Overall I think we have a strong crew here, even our non-roster players are pretty solid players who I think arent going to do anything blatant.

 

[Solon70]

I think it's basically a matter between each person and their conscience, since it's just a game after all. Personally, I don't think I've ever reloaded, although I could imagine doing so if I made a serious misclick because the baby grabbed my arm or something like that.

My personal ethics wouldn't allow me to ever reload something that relates to the RNG. I mean, if you have a 99% chance to win a battle, you're going to lose that battle 1 time out of 100 and that's the way it's supposed to be. I mean, if you're going to reload that, shouldn't you also be reloading the times when your defender had a 1% chance and you miraculously won? But still, it's up to everyone's best judgment, that's just me.

 

[Diamondeye]

I think we've all done it (or at least have found ourselves wanting to). A few examples I'm guilty of in offline games are:

• "I Forgot to do something (whip, build, MM, etc)."
• "I Misclicked (moved unit wrong, etc)."
• "That's not what I wanted from the Goodie Hut."
• "I shouldn't've lost (battle, race, etc)."
• "I [should, should not] have started that war."

Because of the competitive nature of our format, the temptation is naturally higher to reload from a previous save to either correct a mistake or ensure a greater chance of success at achieving something.

... but when is reloading cheating -- specifically as it relates to this format?

Always. Simple as that. If I make a crucial mistake, there goes. You can't win if you make crucial mistakes, even if they are accidental. I never reload.

 

[Refar]

Setting "NO new Random Seed on Reload" + a rather long autosave iterval does help a great deal to beat a Reload-Addiction. You will rarely find yourself motivated to replay like 5 turns, because a battle went not the way you want it too, or because you forgot to whip...