The Nature of Happiness

[Eli]

Which is better? (plase read the examples below before voting)
A) A lifetime of hard, unenjoyable, work with rare huge spikes of bliss?
Or
B) A lifetime of "regular", "mundane" happiness?

A good example of the former is a succesful politician's life. Almost nothing can compete with standing in a huge public square watching throngs of people cheer your victory. There's a enormously powerful feeling of accomplishment after being elected for the first time to the Parliament, after becoming a Minister, etc.
Another example is that of a succesful entrepreneur. Watching your company do it's first sales, the first profits, going public, achieving new, always higher, milestones, etc.

The downside of this option is that for most of the time you're doing a difficult, annoying, stressful work. Facing the ungrateful battlefield of politics, poring over financial figures, sucking up to people you despise.

The latter option, B, depends too much on the individual to describe effectively. For me it would have to include a job that does not take too much time out of my day and energies, a large library, a good wife who knows when to leave me alone, a good internet connection, a group of friends with whom intelligent conversation is possible and a constant stream of opportunities to experience new things, people, ideas and places. (that's not everything, but you get the point).

So, which is better? If you had a choice between both ways of life, which would you choose?

 

[Sidhe]

Both, nothing is more satisfying than achieving greatness of the back of the mundane I would imagine, Einstein was a patent clerk, his work was filing forms, his mind was elsewhere though so it wasn't such a bad job when alls said and done I do a really dull job, it pays for me to do a course, I'm not explaining this well but, I think variety is the spice of life, if you've always had success, money and power where is the achievement in that. E.g. inherited a thriving business. Your Dads the man who pulled it up from the gutter and made it able to look people in the eye, your just riding his coat tails although making a company go multinational and become a world player would be good. Sort of standing on the shoulders of giants, like Phillip and Alexander the respectively great.

I think if you can find a place where you can say I am satisfied then even if it's picking the weavils from biscuits you've won the game.

 

[Eli]

Both, nothing is more satisfying than achieving greatness of the back of the mundane I would imagine, Einstein was a patent clerk, his work was filing forms, his mind was elsewhere though so it wasn't such a bad job when alls said and done I do a really dull job, it pays for me to do a course, I'm not explaining this well but, I think variety os the spice of life, if you've always had success, money and power where is the achievement in that. E.g. inherited a thriving business. Your Dads the amn who pulled it up from the gutter and made it able to look the world in the eye, your just riding his coat tails although making a company go multinational and become a world player would be good. Sort of standing on the shoulders of giants, like Phillip and Alexander the respectively great.

I agree that you can combine both options, but there's a limit to that. Alexander had it easy, he was a genius but he was also born to power.
Imagine a modern Alexander, a man who is truly capable of revolutionizing our world(to the better, I hope ), but before all those great, immensely fulfilling, victories he has to deal fliers, canvass votes, suck up to his party leaders and journalists, etc. He has to deal with a lot of political crap which the original Alexander didnt have to deal with.

Overall, politicians are not happy people.

As for Einstein, did he really live a happy life? Note that option B does not mean that you'll live the life of the average person with the average job, wife and children and TV. You'll do much more than that.
So saying that Einstein did great things but also lived a regular life does not mean he somehow combined A and B. I dont know a lot about his personal life, but maybe he was always quarreling with his wife and generally being miserable.

 

[Sidhe]

Alexander was a diplomatic and military genius, he may of been born to greatness but his charisma and shrewd political machination was every bit the equal of his father, I'd say his achievemnts are still impressive.

I agree with you but I can't imagine you could really know with foresight, when you're 80 with your grandson bouncing on your knee ask yourself then what option you would of picked if it fits your own life then you were a lucky man. Definitely too difficult to decide from my POV, although others may be more ambitious or less than me, I don't think either option is entirely satisfying to most people, but that's coloured by my own opinion.

AS for Einstein, the end of his life was a bit of a failure by his standards, I couldn't say whether he died happy he made alot of mistakes in later years and he lost the debate about how qauntum mechanics worked or if it even existed? honestly I'd say he got to do what he dreamed despite spending a 3rd of his life being totally ignored by academia(he was a lazy sod so it's mainly his own fault, The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament as Dr evil puts it ) Achieved only one nobel prize where 3 were warranted, was acclaimed as the 20th centuries greatest thinker and spent 25 years of his life never having met a theoretical physisist, sounds like bliss to me. I guess I shoud read his biography, pass not sure.

 

[Leha]

...Happiness is a warm gun, mama.....

The Beatles

Dah!

 

[Eli]

Alexander was a diplomatic and military genius, he may of been born to greatness but his charisma and shrewd political machination was every bit the equal of his father, I'd say his achievemnts are still impressive.

Yes, but he didnt have to deal with most of the crap that a modern Alexander will have to deal with. This has far reaching implications on happiness.

I agree with you but I can't imagine you could really know with foresight, when you're 80 with your grandson bouncing on your knee ask yourself then what option you would of picked if it fits your own life then you were a lucky man. Definitely too difficult to decide from my POV, although others may be more ambitious or less than me, I don't think either option is entirely satisfying to most people, but that's coloured by my own opinion.

Of course. I'm not saying that there's a one-size-fits-all or a certain answer. That's why I opened this thread.

 

[Sidhe]

It's agood job that generally life is a series of mundane happy events and less than mundane unhappy events with occasional spikes of bliss. It's an excellent question and I like the fact you only put 2 answers up there, it seems at face value to be an easy choice, but when I though about I took the radioactive monkey option

 

[Narz]

Hmm, neither but if I had to choose (fortunatly I don't ) A.

 

[Eli]

Hmm, neither but if I had to choose (fortunatly I don't ) A.

What's your view on happiness, Narz?

 

[Narz]

What's your view on happiness, Narz?

I try to be happy as much as possible in every moment.

I try to make happiness a carrot on a stick or a goal. I try to maintain happiness regardless of success or failure. I find I bounce back much faster that way (when I call look at even "negative" events with a sense of humour). I also find I am more motavated when I am happy than when I was stressed or worried. This seems to go against "convential wisdom" (all progress stems from dissatisfaction) but I don't necessarily see dissatisfaction as necessarily distressing. You can notice a lack and strive to fill it without becoming discouraged or upset about it. In fact you can learn to enjoy the process of being dissatisfied just like a person can enjoy the sensation of being hungry (thinking "cool, now my food will taste better when I finally get to eat") or being cold (thinking how good to will be to take a hot shower later), etc. To me, being happy or at least cheerful regardless of the circumstances is somewhat of a mental challenge for me because every time something goes wrong I try to think of a silver lining or a way in which the experience can be useful to me.

The reason (if I had to choose) that I choose scenerio A is because the contrast would make the bliss experienced more real and perhaps I could manage to sustain myself thru the unpleasantness with the visions of the more blissful times and eventually break out of my strenous routine altogether whereas "mundane happiness" doesn't feel real to me. Makes me thinking of the very mild happiness that comes from watching something half-interesting on TV alone. I'd rather have the peaks and valleys.

 

[Sidhe]

Drugs and a light box keep me happy in the winter I haven't been depressed in the five years since I got them, absolute God send.

I like Narz's attitude though, I'm stressed about my course atm and awaiting some help so I can't do any more work, this is very frustrating and if I bit my nails I'd probably be doing that. I've told myself this is just one part of the course and I can still pass with flying colours even if I balls it up but I'm still feeling a bit demoralised. I need some positive thinking I think. Or divine inspiration one of the two, I think it's just me in this one though.

 

[Eli]

Narz:

There is a lot of truth in your first paragraph. Adopting an optimistic attitude allows one to go a long way towards being happier. To generalize this, I agree that a large part of achieving happiness does not depend on your "course in life", but on your attitude to life.

I have to dissagree with your second paragraph. I think you're right in talking in terms of peaks and valleys but I think that they are also exist on a "micro" level. That is, you can get this contrast on a daily basis. For example, you spend 8 hours a day on your job, which most likely you dont enjoy doing(the valley). But when you return home, you use the rest of the time to pursue some hobby(for example) which is the peak.

 

[Civrules]

Hah, when I saw this I'm feeling as if living letter A right now.
A is not bad by all means. Having "regular" happiness is not experiencing it all. I'd much rather experience the happiest happiness combined with hard work and rewards.

 

[Civrules]

For example, you spend 8 hours a day on your job, which most likely you dont enjoy doing(the valley). But when you return home, you use the rest of the time to pursue some hobby(for example) which is the peak.

I think even in scenario A after a long day's worth of work you'd come back home and rest or pursue a hobby. So in my opinion that doesn’t even come close to “moderate” happiness…

Here are some scientific links on happiness and optimism:
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060227_happiness_keys.html
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/041101_optimist_heart.html

Both very good reads. Especially the first one – which basically says everyone can be happy, but we take the route of least resistance and therefore a lot of people are not happy. To be happy you have to work hard.

I’ve found a great way to keep optimistic. Pretty much no matter how my day has been I’d come home and work out. There are very few occasions where after the work-out I don’t feel great about everything (things just seem to be better after that).

 

[Truronian]

Option 2 sounds better, though to be honest I'll probably pursue more of a Option 1 lifestyle in future life.

 

[blackheart]

Neither sound too pleasing and I would rather not want to know that I can assign a quantitative value to my happiness.

 

[shortguy]

Option 2 sounds more to my liking. What's wrong with "mundane" happiness, really?

 

[Eli]

Civrules:

Thanks for the links. I'm familiar with the concept of Flow and I find it very important.

I think even in scenario A after a long day's worth of work you'd come back home and rest or pursue a hobby. So in my opinion that doesn’t even come close to “moderate” happiness…

How many politicians or CEOs have free time to pursue their hobbies on a daily or almost daily basis? I'm sure it's a tiny percentage.

And i'll stress again that option B is not living the life of the average person who, as the articles you linked to say, makes quite a lot of mistakes as far as happiness is concerned.

I'll clarify my question since it seems that there are some misunderstandings:

What i'm trying to figure out is whether it is better to work for a small number of great goals or achievements which take enormous amounts of time and effort to complete, or to work on a large number of more immediate goals.

For example, Mr. A, a politician, will dedicate 2006-2008 entirely to his election campaign, being always on the road, doing everything that is within his reach to increase the odds, etc, and in the end will feel the huge gratification feeling of winning the campaign.

But Mr. B, a regular Joe working as a real-estate salesman, will accomplish his dream of visiting Rome, spend many good evenings with a good book or with good friends. If his hobbies are stamp-collecting and fishing, then he'll enlarge his collection, getting a few more rare stamps that he always wanted to have and break his old record of the number of fish caught in a single session. And all of this will only fill a small part of his free time. Mr. B will do many other stuff.

Odds are that Mr. B will never experience the ecstasy of victory, but Mr. A will never experience the myriad of little joys life can offer.

 

[Mise]

My first thought is B, because I hate ups-and-downs. I think I'll wait for more responses before voting though...

 

[C~G]

Happiness is just one of many altered state of minds that people past through, sometimes they pay attention to it some other times don't.

Nowadays people seek happiness, hunting it and drive towards it, which kills the very idea of itself.

You can feel satisfied and content quite often but happiness in life living inside tainted heart is random occurence.